DUST Search - An Argument for Legion Transparency and More Dialogue

Aeon Amadi wrote:

xAckie wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

xAckie wrote:

CCP shouldn't listen to this terrible player base.

If they dont, Legion may stand a chance

Because that worked so well for Dust 514.

problem is they did.

they tried to make an eve fps - stupid

many of us said from beta onwards to not listen to the eve crowd

looks like legion is going the way of an FPS

Good on Rouge

edit: and good on the silence. You should want delivery. Not the crap" CCP spouted promising fairies and unicorns that never materialised during beta and onwards.

Dust 514 wound up being just another FPS and you will certifiably never beat Call of Duty or Battlefield at their own game. Section 8 already tried that with the sci-fi niche, MAG tried that with the 'lots of players' niche.

Dust 514 (Project Legion) NEEDS to have aspects of Eve Online and it needs that interconnectivity; a player-based economy with a sandbox-ish atmosphere that allows for player choice and non-consensual social interaction. Otherwise it'll just be "that game that ripped off of Planetside 2".

So, no, I for one think you're very very wrong.

Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

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Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12865	Posted - 2014.10.30 04:57:00 - [1] - Quote Written by Aeon Amadi and posted here by request Admittedly, I've been a little critical since I got back (not that that is any different from how I usually am). CEOPyrex put it best in that I get frustrated whenever I can't get information and that's absolutely true; I'm just like the community when it comes to information. I crave it, I always want more, and I always want to know where my investment is going. That drive is why I constantly remind CCP Games the importance of a certain level of transparency. This isn't to say that we want to be over-promised things but we do want to see what is currently going on if only for a wellness check; a pulse. It means a lot to us as players having the security of knowing where things are going from here but more importantly it means something that'll perk up marketing's ears: Money. Now, don't get me wrong, consumers will buy anything. Bill Burr even has a stand-up comedy segment about how people will buy a George Foreman grill even though George Foreman is a boxer who lost Muhammad Ali and knows jack about grilling. The beautiful thing though, is an informed consumer base (especially in video games) will often align with a certain brand if they feel secure in their investment. So why does this matter? Why is it so important to bear mention of a 'brand' when it comes to Project Legion? Well, because of this interview with none-other than Ryan Geddis, the Global Brand Director at CCP Games. What I find peculiar about this video is that, at first glance, it sounds exciting! Running for the CPM, however, taught me how to read between the lines of what a person was saying and here is what I heard: "Project Legion is the Dust 514 experience brought to the PC, we don't want to connect it to Eve Online yet until it's able to stand on it's own two feet. Fundamentally, it is the same as Dust 514 except without the PS3's hardware limitations. Dust 514 is still going strong with a great community and we have no plans to change that. It's very important for us to hear their feedback and what they want out of the game. It's really important for us to have that dialogue going all the time." That last line is the most crucial, as it's not paraphrased - it's exactly what Ryan Geddis said. CCP's consumer base needs to hear the other side of the feedback loop. Dialogue is not one-sided. It is physically impossible to provide feedback on something we don't even know exists yet and that is why it is IMPERATIVE that we have Project Legion's developers openly engaging with us more. Now, don't take this as a hint to storm the castle and attack CCP Rattati and CCP Logibro - they're doing a great job on Dust 514 right now and we need them to stay right where they are. However, do take this as a hint to start asking questions for CCP Wolfman, Z, and Rouge as they're the ones who can actually answer those questions. PLEASE ask questions, even the hard questions, as they -need- to be answered for Project Legion to do right by it's community. But most importantly - and this is directly to CCP Wolfman, Z, Rouge, and the entire Shanghai team - we need you to be willing to answer them. Because just as CCP Rouge said at the Dust 514 Keynote at Fanfest 2014, this is a Four Pillar system and the third pillar applies to real life as well: A player driven economy. TL;DR Ryan Geddis (CCP's Global Brand Director) said that, "It's very important for us to hear their feedback and what they want out of the game. It's really important for us to have that dialogue going all the time." Dialogue cannot be one-sided and we need to have Legion's developers engaging with the players, answering our questions, and showing us the things to start that dialogue. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1068	Posted - 2014.10.30 05:30:00 - [2] - Quote We do ask, our questions just hit a brick wall. If only we had our own Jita to burn. CCP seems to care when players burn their imaginary space. :P How to balance cloaks.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9044	Posted - 2014.10.30 06:30:00 - [3] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Written by Aeon Amadi and posted here: But most importantly - and this is directly to CCP Wolfman, Z, Rouge, and the entire Shanghai team - we need you to be willing to answer them. Too bad they aren't. "Transparency" and "communication" are just buzz words thrown around during major events, only to never hear from the developers until a much further point in time. Can't believe we can't even get a wellness check on a somewhat regular basis. Don't even need to reveal anything, just say if progress is being made. It gets really gloom when they go silent. Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2588	Posted - 2014.10.30 06:32:00 - [4] - Quote My counter-argument: Overhype, even if CCP does not do it, the Forums will avalanche things to ridiculous levels and do it themselves, then be mad about it (Overgeneralizing, but you get my point?) "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2448	Posted - 2014.10.30 07:07:00 - [5] - Quote CCP is so afraid of over promising and underdelivering that they are making the exact opposite mistake. As disappointed as I am at the long list of broken promises made by the previous EP, the reality is that if he had never sold us on the dream of what DUST could be, if he had only promised what he could immediately deliver, then most of us would probably not be here. I probably would never had bought a PS3 just to play DUST, spent hundreds of dollars on the game, or spent hours posting constructive feedback. I don't even think the servers would be running right now had we not been shown the vision of what DUST could become. So there is a lot of good that can come from showing the players their vision of the future. Having excitement and hope for the future can translate into real revenue in the present, which is critical to getting this game and Legion to where we all want it to be. I look at it a bit like Pascal's Wager: either Legion will be greenlit or it won't be. CCP can either be more transparent of their future plans and risk disappointment or not. If they do start communicating about the future and it turns out that Legion is canceled, people will be pissed/furious. Yet if they don't communicate and it's cancelled, then most people will still be pissed off, maybe slightly less so, but ultimately it will be canceled and it really won't matter anyways. Whereas if they are transparent and we get the green light, then CCP will benefit from additional revenue which can be used to accelerate development, get helpful feedback, and build some grassroots marketing as players start bringing in their friends to get ready. If it is greenlit, but CCP stays quiet about it until the last minute, they will miss out on all of those benefits. The correct decision is obvious. Communicate with your players CCP. Give us a 3 month, 6 month, 1 year and 5 year roadmap for where you want things to be. You don't have to promise us the moon, but show us what you've been working on. How long can we expect DUST to keep running? Will our SP transfer to Legion 1 to 1? What is the target year/quarter for a Legion Beta? How have your plans for progression evolved since Fanfest? Let's have a conversation. Best PvE idea ever!
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 646	Posted - 2014.10.30 13:28:00 - [6] - Quote Our forums take any given bit of information, no matter how minuscule, and then run straight over a cliff with it. We'll get a bit of information and dissect it. Someone will postulate a theory on what's next and then someone expands on it. Then the fun starts. Once that expansion starts to get read by more people, it goes from theory to "internet-fact" People expect to see that in game. Then they expect it NOW! Then they get mad when it doesn't happen. By then it's too late, there's no way to convince people that what was meant to be a vision of the future isn't the "fact" that they believe. It happens all the time on the EVE forums and it happens here as well. I don't blame CCP for being quiet. We've shown them on both forums we can't handle the information they give us like adults. We keep turning into petulant children.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1210	Posted - 2014.10.30 13:38:00 - [7] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Our forums take any given bit of information, no matter how minuscule, and then run straight over a cliff with it. We'll get a bit of information and dissect it. Someone will postulate a theory on what's next and then someone expands on it. Then the fun starts. Once that expansion starts to get read by more people, it goes from theory to "internet-fact" People expect to see that in game. Then they expect it NOW! Then they get mad when it doesn't happen. By then it's too late, there's no way to convince people that what was meant to be a vision of the future isn't the "fact" that they believe. It happens all the time on the EVE forums and it happens here as well. I don't blame CCP for being quiet. We've shown them on both forums we can't handle the information they give us like adults. We keep turning into petulant children. So,if i'm understanding you correctly. CCP is being silent about a suprise port to the ps4. Amazing revelation,thanks for sharing. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6854	Posted - 2014.10.30 17:59:00 - [8] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Our forums take any given bit of information, no matter how minuscule, and then run straight over a cliff with it. We'll get a bit of information and dissect it. Someone will postulate a theory on what's next and then someone expands on it. Then the fun starts. Once that expansion starts to get read by more people, it goes from theory to "internet-fact" People expect to see that in game. Then they expect it NOW! Then they get mad when it doesn't happen. By then it's too late, there's no way to convince people that what was meant to be a vision of the future isn't the "fact" that they believe. It happens all the time on the EVE forums and it happens here as well. I don't blame CCP for being quiet. We've shown them on both forums we can't handle the information they give us like adults. We keep turning into petulant children. But which is honestly more dangerous: CCP giving us tidbits of information and a minority of players exaggerating it to something it isn't... ...or CCP not saying anything at all? Important Links: An Argument for Legion Transparency
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 404	Posted - 2014.10.30 18:19:00 - [9] - Quote Ryan Geddis et al., Show me "DUST/LEGION for PS4" in the spirit of "great community...no plans to change that..." and I'll get off your backs about "Where's Legion?". Nerf scouts. Before Legion. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
xAckie Ghost. Mob 458	Posted - 2014.10.30 19:09:00 - [10] - Quote CCP shouldn't listen to this terrible player base. If they dont, Legion may stand a chance

Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6857	Posted - 2014.10.30 19:39:00 - [11] - Quote xAckie wrote: CCP shouldn't listen to this terrible player base. If they dont, Legion may stand a chance Because that worked so well for Dust 514. Important Legion Transparency Post Lv5
Everything Dies LIFE IS KILLING ME 1056	Posted - 2014.10.30 19:48:00 - [12] - Quote Maybe we should write down are feedback on StickyNotes and place them on the Eve statue? Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
General John Ripper 25397	Posted - 2014.10.30 19:54:00 - [13] - Quote I am GJR and I approve of honesty. Player dev interaction is critical at this stage of development. I have been diagnosed with "TED" - Taco Eating Disorder. I can't stop eating tacos. Best Disorder Ever
Immortal John Ripper 25414	Posted - 2014.10.30 19:54:00 - [14] - Quote I am GJR and I approve of honesty. Player dev interaction is critical at this stage of development. I have been diagnosed with "TED" - Taco Eating Disorder. I can't stop eating tacos. Best Disorder Ever
xAckie Ghost. Mob 459	Posted - 2014.10.30 20:13:00 - [15] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: xAckie wrote: CCP shouldn't listen to this terrible player base. If they dont, Legion may stand a chance Because that worked so well for Dust 514. problem is they did. they tried to make an eve fps - stupid many of us said from beta onwards to not listen to the eve crowd looks like legion is going the way of an FPS Good on Rouge
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6862	Posted - 2014.10.31 02:47:00 - [16] - Quote xAckie wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: xAckie wrote: CCP shouldn't listen to this terrible player base. If they dont, Legion may stand a chance Because that worked so well for Dust 514. problem is they did. they tried to make an eve fps - stupid many of us said from beta onwards to not listen to the eve crowd looks like legion is going the way of an FPS Good on Rouge edit: and good on the silence. You should want delivery. Not the crap" CCP spouted promising fairies and unicorns that never materialised during beta and onwards. Dust 514 wound up being just another FPS and you will certifiably never beat Call of Duty or Battlefield at their own game. Section 8 already tried that with the sci-fi niche, MAG tried that with the 'lots of players' niche. Dust 514 (Project Legion) NEEDS to have aspects of Eve Online and it needs that interconnectivity; a player-based economy with a sandbox-ish atmosphere that allows for player choice and non-consensual social interaction. Otherwise it'll just be "that game that ripped off of Planetside 2". So, no, I for one think you're very very wrong. Important Legion Transparency Post Lv5
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2262	Posted - 2014.10.31 03:37:00 - [17] - Quote As I have said before, I believe I even asked Geddis about DUST/Legion in Vegas. I had absolutely no idea who he was but I just got a "hmm, and huh" about everything. The most he said about Legion is pretty much the same anyone has said for 6 months: "If Legion becomes a game, we will let you know." I find it funny that the only thing that can be said in defense of the utter silence is "Well, you don't a lot of false promises again?" This is like saying that a weather forecast should not happen because it can be over-embellished. Of course we don't want a "Legion is going to have MTAC's, Unicorns, Fairies, and it will give everyone sexual gratification just on log in!" but how about something as simple as "Hey, this is Rouge. While we are not ready to announce anything, we are looking for feedback." It seemed promising when Z did the Feedback bit several months ago but nothing. Going back to the weather forecast analogy, rather than CCP being afraid of doing an "IT IS GOING TO RAIN HELLFIRE AND SULFUR AND VINEGAR AND THE DEAD WILL RISE FROM THE GRAVE!" they are instead insisting "Hey, the sun might not even exist." The whole reason for this is just because they want to share this big bombshell for FanFest when the entire world of gaming is watching. But, hey, that worked so damn well last year right?... "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 144	Posted - 2014.10.31 03:41:00 - [18] - Quote Basically making Aeon Amadi look like/think he is at fault with his behaviour when he has quite a huge reason to stress this point. People that can't achieve greatness without exploitation don't deserve to exist. Enroll in scout erradication today.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 408	Posted - 2014.10.31 18:40:00 - [19] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: xAckie wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: xAckie wrote: CCP shouldn't listen to this terrible player base. If they dont, Legion may stand a chance Because that worked so well for Dust 514. problem is they did. they tried to make an eve fps - stupid many of us said from beta onwards to not listen to the eve crowd looks like legion is going the way of an FPS Good on Rouge edit: and good on the silence. You should want delivery. Not the crap" CCP spouted promising fairies and unicorns that never materialised during beta and onwards. Dust 514 wound up being just another FPS and you will certifiably never beat Call of Duty or Battlefield at their own game. Section 8 already tried that with the sci-fi niche, MAG tried that with the 'lots of players' niche. Dust 514 (Project Legion) NEEDS to have aspects of Eve Online and it needs that interconnectivity; a player-based economy with a sandbox-ish atmosphere that allows for player choice and non-consensual social interaction. Otherwise it'll just be "that game that ripped off of Planetside 2". So, no, I for one think you're very very wrong. I agree, the EVE interconnection is critical to not just the games identity but also its reliable potential. Anything that is to be considered a Persistent RPG has the character development element ie its understood the playerbase will have to spend the time to develop the character. If the game is shortterm or limited in growth options, then players just don't invest the time. As evidenced by the mass exodus after the Rouge Wedding when DUST was implicitally announced as up for cancellation. The presence of and link to the existing EVE game is what allows there to be the confidence in that obscure future, theres always something of interest going on in EVE so there should always be something interesting for DUST. If anything, the limited EVE tie-in now (they just drop OBs, and have better CEO tools [wtf?]) has hampered DUSTs ability to grow its context and be engaging as a game outside of run, point, shoot. Nerf scouts. In DUST, EVE and Legion. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 408	Posted - 2014.10.31 18:45:00 - [20] - Quote REDACTED DOUBLE POST Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6873	Posted - 2014.11.01 02:02:00 - [21] - Quote Lloyd Orfay wrote: Basically making Aeon Amadi look like/think he is at fault with his behaviour when he has quite a huge reason to stress this point. Wait, what now? Important Legion Transparency Post Lv5


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