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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
848
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Posted - 2014.10.30 11:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Excellent. Thanks for the feedback.
Have you experienced a change in Swarm efficiency, now that we nerfed their turn radius by another 10%?
Heat fix has made the Railgun Incubus more useful, can actually shoot down dropships again.
Swarms: no appreciable change. They still circle buildings. The biggest issue is that by the time you can react to a swarm volley, they are usually too close for any so of manoeuvre to make any difference.
Edit: out of curiosity, have you had a chance to look at This Thread? I think there are some thoughts in there that are worth considering (but then I'm biased  )
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
851
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Posted - 2014.10.30 11:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Seems exaggerated, you get hit by the first, the second may be in the air but by the third you should be actively avoiding it. If the third swarm is not as maneuverable, it may be a big factor in survivability. Even just losing 1 or 2 of the missiles from the swarm into a building or hill.
Exaggerated, not especially. 1.9 will, hopefully, fix rendering issues but prior to then it is difficult to actually see them being launched which makes evasive action extremely difficult, not to mention time consuming, which actually plays into the hands of the Swarmer. The thing with the swarm volleys is this: the first lock-on time is utterly irrelevant when the dropship is unaware (which is 98% of the time, due to the size of infantry at standard engagement range) because there is no indication of being under attack.
At operation 5, you have about 1.2s between the first volley being launched and the second following it. Total time from, "Oh crap, I'm under fire" to third volley launch is around 2.5-3s.
A swarm can lock the first volley and have the second volley fired by the time you get hit. The third volley is in the air and the launcher being reloaded while you react to being hit, counter the impulse effects of the hits and consider trying to manoeuvre. Swarms don't appear to slow down when they turn, unlike a dropship which means that every turn causes the Swarms to catch up even faster. What it boils down to is that flat out running to the 400m range is much simpler and vastly more likely to keep you alive - engaging a Swarmer is difficult, especially under fire and if you throw in evasive manoeuvres then your accuracy is in the toilet. (Edit: more to the point, running away gets you past the 175m lock-on range before the second clip is loaded, while staying, trying to evade and attempting to engage is likely to feed you three more volleys.)
One thing that would be useful for improving feedback: how far does a swarm need to travel before it can turn? How does the swarm missile actually operate? From my perspective, it looks like it only has to travel a couple of metres before it gets to turn which, if true, makes the small turning nerfs irrelevant because a dropship has worse handling and has to slow down to attempt to outmanoeuvre them.
CCP Rattati wrote:Now I have, and stored the link on our Crowdsourcing Trello board.
Cool. Just trying to provide alternatives, like you asked for.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
858
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Posted - 2014.10.30 14:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Just like the hmg where everyone thought it needed to be more accurate and it turned out being that it needed to be less accurate, the same is happening with the swarms. CCP and the community think they need to turn less agressively when the opposite is needed. If the swarms turn more agressively they will hit beuildings more often instead of flying around them.
I think you may be on to something here...
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
880
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Posted - 2014.10.31 19:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:By decreasing turn radius, the theory is that if the ads manages to swerve/slalom around, the missile needs to travel a longer distance to keep up and will eventually run out of fuel (exceed max travel distance).
The dropship is incapable of making significant enough swerves in a timely fashion: by turning, you're losing forward momentum, giving the swarm time to catch up. And even when you're using your afterburner to full effect, that loss of distance is, somewhat literally, fatal.
I think that increasing the time travelled between turns/reducing the turn radius further would be what's needed.
I hate to say it again, but it would be useful for you to experience this firsthand. I'm not especially good at putting my piloting experience in to words, though Stefan seems to be on to something.
@Stefan: I think one manoeuvre that pilots would try would be to flip the ship to being perpendicular to their line of travel while letting go of the thrust (to prevent it being a curve) and then hitting thrust under an afterburner to get as radical a course change as possible. Not sure if that's clear enough for you...
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
880
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Posted - 2014.11.01 02:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:@Stefan: I think one manoeuvre that pilots would try would be to flip the ship to being perpendicular to their line of travel while letting go of the thrust (to prevent it being a curve) and then hitting thrust under an afterburner to get as radical a course change as possible. Not sure if that's clear enough for you... Do you have any idea how long an afterburning ADS takes to reach full speed? Even if it loses height while at it. If I know that I can tell you whether that maneuver is viable.
Um, not sure. I'd estimate 1.5s to change direction, but that is pulled straight out of my butt...I don't think much height is lost though.
Would yo be able to chart several acceleration times? 1s, 2s and 3s?
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
880
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Posted - 2014.11.01 17:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:Rattati honestly disaible auto recentering of the camera on the ADS. It serves no purpose except to annoy the living hell out of the pilots.
This. A thousand ******* times this. I cannot count how many times I've missed shots because of this mechanic, and sometimes it is incredibly important (duelling AV, for example) and it renders long range bombardment essentially impossible.
manboar thunder fist wrote:On this note however I'm willing to spend up to 10 pythons trying out various manouvers to outrun swarms... Please let me know if you have any suggestions or ideas for potential good ones.
Here's a manoeuvre:
1. Get hit by volley #1
2. Run out of lock-on range, getting hit by volleys #2 and #3
3. Land
4. Recall
5. ???
6. Profit!
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
898
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Posted - 2014.11.06 02:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Personally, I'm fine with Swarms being powerful; being faster than me; being easy to use and cheap to boot.
What I want is to be able to fight. Currently, a strafing run is a high speed way to fire one or two missiles pathetically inaccurately. Even with the target scanned, when you're screaming in at 200km/h and have to hit within 2.5m while still at 60-100m it's not easy: and when you only get one/two shots in that window, you're basically doing nothing.
If my missile turret was 40 missiles, firing like the Large Missile turret and with the corresponding reduction in damage, then I'd be able to saturate an area as I fly past.
Hell, make me even more fragile, I don't care as long as I can actually do what I'm supposed to be doing. With that kind of turret I can actually perform a strafing run whilst simultaneously deploying shock troops into the blitzed and bombed area. Then turn around, provide more firepower and pick them up afterwards.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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