DUST Search - To Rattati: ARR and hipfire kick.

Songs of Seraphim wrote:

Leadfoot10 wrote:

Songs of Seraphim wrote:

You know what Leadfoot? I was thinking of doing the same...

I can still use the Rail Rifle in close quarters, but I have to constantly shift the gun with the right analog stick along with my strafing... And using the Assault Rail Rifle as it is right now, that kick is much more pronounced...
I don't like using the Rail Rifle in cqc, but scouts sneaking up on you are a thing...

No use in beating a dead horse. You adapt and learn.

Yeah, I already did adapt and learn. The hard way -- learning by getting pounded in PC. Adapting by going away from the ARR/RR in PC a while ago and back to the BrAR....after dying in most CQC situations to CR./AR users I couldn't hit with the RR or ARR, along with shotgunners that seemingly danced between my bullets while having to control the kick and deal with the hipfire dispersion.

I just could not bite my tongue after playing around with the weapons post-hipfire-kick nerf and not understanding how far and away the worst CQC rifle was in need of further CQC nerf...not because its K/S was that out of line (it's not, look at the graph!), or that it was superior in CQC (it obviously was already the worst), but rather simply because it's used by the majority of rifle users (it is clearly).

That is actually the same experience I had.
But I'm not one to rage and give up. So I kept trying. If I was on home point in PC, nothing got by me since I was a good distance away from the point and using ADS on the Rail Rifle. Every now and then a scout would try and ruin that, but I usually danced with them for a while using an SMG, then finish them off with the Rail Rifle.

If I was in a city fight, I admit I had a more difficult time, yet I could still win a 1v1 against a scout or heavy BEFORE the nerf.

Now... I got the jump on a heavy... I could not land any hits, switched to my SMG, couldn't deal enough damage, I tried the Rail again, only for the heavy to leave victorious with a small bit of health. THAT was quite embarrassing since I had the drop on him only to unable to land the shots on the Rail Rifle...

Did this a few times. With scouts... It was much, much worse.

So I made the switch to the CreoDron Burst Asaault Rifle.
I'm not too fond of it... It wrecks scouts, but I've always had a more arduous time handling heavies in my assault or logistics suit.

So unfortunately, I'm going to skill into Combat Rifles since it was a greater choice in PC for a while, now with the Rail Rifle's hindered ability to apply any damage in close quarters, it would be foolish not to skill into CRs. They're a greater choice now more than ever.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1911	Posted - 2014.10.30 08:18:00 - [1] - Quote Here's my post to the offical rifle feedback thread... With apologies to the Asia players on my team for whom I was no help, I played around a bit more between PCs and queue-syncing FW tonight.... Conclusion: The ARR kick is different from the RR kick -- less vertical and more side to side. Making it even harder to control in CQC in relation. My test was as follows: Take ARR, aim at a spot on a wall, rip through entire clip of 58 rounds with hipfire, note where cursor landed. Repeat with RR clip of 42 rounds. Repeat with BrAR clip of 36 rounds. Repeat with AR clip of 60 rounds. Repeat with CR clip of 54 rounds. (basic combat rifle) Repeat with ACR clip of 54 rounds (AUR BK-42 ACR). I did all this with proto versions of the weapons (except the CR as noted above) and repeated the tests a few times as kick has some random elements to it. Here's what I found: The RR kicked to vertical (about 120 degrees total, and I actually had to aim down in order to measure it). The kick was mostly vertical but had some small, random left to right kick (a few degrees). The ARR kicked to about 45 to 60 degrees, less than the RR. However, the kick was much more side-to-side than the RR, often going 15 or more degrees off target. (note this is MUCH more difficult to correct for as it's also seemingly random left or right versus the mostly-vertical and much-more-predictible kick of the RR -- I suspect that's why this weapon preforms as poorly as it does in CQC and is not widely used) The BrAr kicked about half the height of its hipfire dispersion (less than 5 degrees) and about the same left to right. The AR kicked about the height of its hipifire dispersion (about 5 degrees) and about half of that little left to right. The CR had about five pixels of rise (rapid button pushing was required and total rise was a degree or two), and a pixel or two of left to right. The ACR had about five pixels of rise (same as CR) and the same left-to-right. I think I finally understand why rifle CQC is dominated by the CR in PC, why I've preferred the BrAR since I picked it up a few weeks ago, and why the RR is so hard to control after a few shots. I was also a bit surprised to find the kick of the ARR even worse than the RR once I tested it and used it for a few rounds focusing on CQC encounters. ADS it's the same as it always was, but wow, the ARR may be even worse than the RR in terms of ability to put DPS on a target in CQC without stopping shooting for a third or a half of a second and allowing the gun to settle. That side to side kick is in random directions and very difficult to react to. No wonder I was the only one using it. lol I think I'm going to finally bite the bullet and add a CR to my proto rifle collection once I receive the sidearm event points. Even the basic one rocks if you time the bursts. Kind of reminded me of the Burst AR from way back....
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1913	Posted - 2014.10.30 15:55:00 - [2] - Quote Songs of Seraphim wrote: You know what Leadfoot? I was thinking of doing the same... I can still use the Rail Rifle in close quarters, but I have to constantly shift the gun with the right analog stick along with my strafing... And using the Assault Rail Rifle as it is right now, that kick is much more pronounced... I don't like using the Rail Rifle in cqc, but scouts sneaking up on you are a thing... No use in beating a dead horse. You adapt and learn. Yeah, I already did adapt and learn. The hard way -- learning by getting pounded in PC. Adapting by going away from the RR in PC a while ago and back to the BrAR....after dying in most CQC situations to CR./AR users I couldn't hit with the RR or ARR, along with shotgunners that seemingly danced between my bullets while having to control the kick and deal with the hipfire dispersion. I just could not bite my tongue after playing around with the weapons post-hipfire-kick nerf and not understanding how far and away the worst CQC rifle was in need of further CQC nerf...not because its K/S was that out of line(it's not, look at the graph!), or that it was superior in CQC (it obviously was not) but rather simply because it's used by the majority of rifle users (it is clearly).
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1913	Posted - 2014.10.30 16:10:00 - [3] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Why.. I been told by everyone how great the ARR works now in CQC. So your telling me they all lied and where just trolling? They were lying. It was the worst CQC rifle before the nerf, and after the first few bullets it kicks so much that it borders on unusable in CQC now. However, both the RR and ARR wreck face at range in ADS (the RR moreso than the ARR, because of increased ADS dispersion buildup), and the maps set up such that you can get people out in the open where they cannot fire back. As a result, it became the most popular rifle rather than one that was particularly overpowered in relation to other rifles (as data Rattati shared here clearly indicate). This shift from the RR to CR (and AR) happened some time ago in PC, but after reviewing the pub data Ratatti shared, it's clearly not happened in pubs yet, where the RR far and away outnumbers the other rifles. I wonder why something that was so obvious to PC players hasn't yet worked its way down to pub data, where PC players only really use the RR to camp up high with and it's at best the 4th most popular light weapon now (behind the SG, CR, and even, I suspect, the much-maligned AR).
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1917	Posted - 2014.10.30 17:43:00 - [4] - Quote Songs of Seraphim wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Songs of Seraphim wrote: You know what Leadfoot? I was thinking of doing the same... I can still use the Rail Rifle in close quarters, but I have to constantly shift the gun with the right analog stick along with my strafing... And using the Assault Rail Rifle as it is right now, that kick is much more pronounced... I don't like using the Rail Rifle in cqc, but scouts sneaking up on you are a thing... No use in beating a dead horse. You adapt and learn. Yeah, I already did adapt and learn. The hard way -- learning by getting pounded in PC. Adapting by going away from the ARR/RR in PC a while ago and back to the BrAR....after dying in most CQC situations to CR./AR users I couldn't hit with the RR or ARR, along with shotgunners that seemingly danced between my bullets while having to control the kick and deal with the hipfire dispersion. I just could not bite my tongue after playing around with the weapons post-hipfire-kick nerf and not understanding how far and away the worst CQC rifle was in need of further CQC nerf...not because its K/S was that out of line (it's not, look at the graph!), or that it was superior in CQC (it obviously was already the worst), but rather simply because it's used by the majority of rifle users (it is clearly). That is actually the same experience I had. But I'm not one to rage and give up. So I kept trying. If I was on home point in PC, nothing got by me since I was a good distance away from the point and using ADS on the Rail Rifle. Every now and then a scout would try and ruin that, but I usually danced with them for a while using an SMG, then finish them off with the Rail Rifle. If I was in a city fight, I admit I had a more difficult time, yet I could still win a 1v1 against a scout or heavy BEFORE the nerf. Now... I got the jump on a heavy... I could not land any hits, switched to my SMG, couldn't deal enough damage, I tried the Rail again, only for the heavy to leave victorious with a small bit of health. THAT was quite embarrassing since I had the drop on him only to unable to land the shots on the Rail Rifle... Did this a few times. With scouts... It was much, much worse. So I made the switch to the CreoDron Burst Asaault Rifle. I'm not too fond of it... It wrecks scouts, but I've always had a more arduous time handling heavies in my assault or logistics suit. So unfortunately, I'm going to skill into Combat Rifles since it was a greater choice in PC for a while, now with the Rail Rifle's hindered ability to apply any damage in close quarters, it would be foolish not to skill into CRs. They're a greater choice now more than ever. Thank you for this post, I was beginning to think it was me. TBH, the complete dominance of the CR in PC was one of the reasons I never skilled into it -- as I expected it to get hit hard with the nerf bat. Having felt the pain of having weapons/suits become ineffective overnight, I was a bit gunshy. Like you, I fell back to the old trusty AR (BrAR, actually) because of the complete ineffectiveness of the RR/ARR in CQC situations (which you cannot avoid at the higher levels) and the relative levels of damage even the best sidearms does versus a CR, AR, or SG user, much less the heavies.