DUST Search - [Request] Do not implement respecs.

KA24DERT wrote:

Soraya Xel wrote:

Spectral Clone wrote:

They cant roll back the changes now, the 1.9 patch is under review at Sony.

Harden
The
****
Up

As a fact: Actually, the respec option is a store item. It can easily be delisted server-side.

As another fact: Don't expect it to happen.

I am historically not a fan of respecs, but the serious issues that respecs could present are largely mitigated by 1.9 itself, as well as the recent hotfixes. While you can respec, you may be better of just stacking a couple boosters and jumping your SP gain way up for a short while, for instance.

Also, the hotfixes have gotten balance to a close enough point that FOTM jumping is going to be less and less effective.

How does a new SP faucet mitigate the ability to respec?

More SP doesn't mitigate respecs, it compounds them.

A stronger argument can be made for removing respecs BECAUSE of the new SP faucets.

I think CCP's decision bring respecs to Dust boils down to:

1) CCP needs money, and nothing's wrong with that.
2) Unlimited respecs are a great way to use Dust as ~~free~~ profitable QA for Legion's balance.

I'd be willing to bet 10 million ISK that Legion won't have unlimited respecs.

As for the HTFU recommendation, tell me again how allowing respecs is in the tradition of HTFU? It's easy mode for unthinking babies.

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KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 680	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:23:00 - [1] - Quote What ever happened to the concept of consequence and permanence in this game? Letting anyone hit the undo button at any time will result in people chasing FOTM and broken mechanics with no effort till the end of this game. Respecs will also lower the server population long term. Why log in and earn skill points when that new shiny dropsuit is just a respec away? At least limit it to one respec per year.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 400	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:32:00 - [2] - Quote Agreed, signed. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4080	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:39:00 - [3] - Quote I thoroughly disagree. Unless, Rattati or another Dev maliciously messes up the balance factors they've been working after Fanfest to iron out, this automated respec system allows the developers and players to quickly root out flavor of the month anomalies. Balance will be achieved faster. The ability to change is healthy for player retention. Not everyone like myself was savvy enough to make a clone farm for every suit and weapon in this game. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 131	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:48:00 - [4] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: What ever happened to the concept of consequence and permanence in this game? Letting anyone hit the undo button at any time will result in people chasing FOTM and broken mechanics with no effort till the end of this game. Respecs will also lower the server population long term. Why log in and earn skill points when that new shiny dropsuit is just a respec away? At least limit it to one respec per year. Agreed. Too many respecs demotivates people to continue the grind. Limit is the only sensible solution. I love the smell of orbital support in the morning!!!
Vicious Minotaur 1278	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:59:00 - [5] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: What ever happened to the concept of consequence and permanence in this game? I was unaware those even existed. Permanence? You mean like how CCP constantly changes things in a constant Buff/Nerf cycle? How CCP gave multiple respecs and some refunds? And nevermind LEGION and its implications, or the aging PS3 and the inevitable shutdown. Consequences? You mean players having to live with the consequences of CCPs actions? Being forced to live with a suit that has changed so dramatically from what you had skilled into that they are not even the same? Yeah. If there ever was permanence and consequences, CCP consistently subverted them throughout DUSTs lifespan. It seems only fitting that they put the final nail in that coffin. I am a minotaur.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5155	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:31:00 - [6] - Quote I think it is a combination of knowing Dust will eventually die and preparing for Legion, and wanting to make some money in the mean time. Sigh. This will only serve to highlight imbalances, and make the game more P2W. No more Sprint Glitch? This party is going to be off the hook!
BlazeXYZ G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 298	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:36:00 - [7] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: What ever happened to the concept of consequence and permanence in this game? Letting anyone hit the undo button at any time will result in people chasing FOTM and broken mechanics with no effort till the end of this game. Respecs will also lower the server population long term. Why log in and earn skill points when that new shiny dropsuit is just a respec away? At least limit it to one respec per year. Unless respecs cost $20-$40 then it's ok. The Blazing Intellect Machine
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 340	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:44:00 - [8] - Quote BlazeXYZ wrote: Unless respecs cost $20-$40 then it's ok. THIS ^ Let FOTM chasers fund CCP's checks single handedly 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1985	Posted - 2014.10.29 01:00:00 - [9] - Quote Good call OP. **** that noise. Now with more evil.
jNs Vit4l THE 300 SPARTANS 44	Posted - 2014.10.29 01:33:00 - [10] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: What ever happened to the concept of consequence and permanence in this game? Letting anyone hit the undo button at any time will result in people chasing FOTM and broken mechanics with no effort till the end of this game. Respecs will also lower the server population long term. Why log in and earn skill points when that new shiny dropsuit is just a respec away? At least limit it to one respec per year. Aggreed! CCP you sould give us a weaponry respec this time, for FREE since all these changes were made. Because we going to be able to buy a respec in 1.9 that doesnt mean we shouldnt get one for Free since the NEW uprising is coming, just like there were respecs in specific categories for past updates. CEO of The 300 Spartans! Leader FC of J PLATOON VIT4L Min / Gal Fw FW FTW!

hfderrtgvcd 1024	Posted - 2014.10.29 01:46:00 - [11] - Quote give it an sp penalty, a cooldown and a high cost. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
XSoldierSaintX Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2014.10.29 02:02:00 - [12] - Quote No matter what its still coming....LET THE RESPEC FOTM CRYING AND WHINING HOLY WAR COMMENCE !
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5117	Posted - 2014.10.29 02:46:00 - [13] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: I thoroughly disagree. Unless, Rattati or another Dev maliciously messes up the balance factors they've been working after Fanfest to iron out, this automated respec system allows the developers and players to quickly root out flavor of the month anomalies. Balance will be achieved faster. The ability to change is healthy for player retention. Pigeonholing yourself into a play style can get very boring after a while. Not everyone like myself was savvy enough to make a clone farm for every suit and weapon in this game. You get the common sense award for the day. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 687	Posted - 2014.10.29 03:57:00 - [14] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: I thoroughly disagree. Unless, Rattati or another Dev maliciously messes up the balance factors they've been working after Fanfest to iron out, this automated respec system allows the developers and players to quickly root out flavor of the month anomalies. Balance will be achieved faster. The ability to change is healthy for player retention. Pigeonholing yourself into a play style can get very boring after a while. Not everyone like myself was savvy enough to make a clone farm for every suit and weapon in this game. How much pigeonholing is going to happen now that the weekly SP cap is 750k, and you can stack boosters? A new weapon or dropsuit is now 2-3 weeks away. A respec for a bad decisoin, once a year, is fine. A respec with the new SP faucet is just silly.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2944	Posted - 2014.10.29 07:29:00 - [15] - Quote They cant roll back the changes now, the 1.9 patch is under review at Sony. Harden The **** Up Fix mouse support in Dust 514! How to do it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=965407#post965407
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2944	Posted - 2014.10.29 07:32:00 - [16] - Quote Also, it is very smart to let the players pay to figure out the FOTM builds. They will do it quicker than CCP could ever do it themselves. CCP just need to cash in their money and watch their statistics. Its just perfect. Fix mouse support in Dust 514! How to do it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=965407#post965407
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1542	Posted - 2014.10.29 09:16:00 - [17] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: What ever happened to the concept of consequence and permanence in this game? you obviously played a different game then the rest of the people here
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 665	Posted - 2014.10.29 10:47:00 - [18] - Quote Here we go Respecs should be allowed to the player base in some manner now because !) While Veterans do have loads of SP, some of us, like myself, aren't happy with the weapons and modules we specced into when we were a day old. 1.8 never gave us the chance to change EVERYTHING about ourselves, only the suits. 2) Respecs are going to be a thing should Legion drop, so it's better they see how it effects Dust rather than bring such a radical idea into their new game 3) We still don't know how it will be implemented. Wait for it to come and then give feedback All in all, respecs might hurt this continuity, but in the general scheme of things, wait till it comes out before screaming. I'm sure Rattati has heard all the counter-arguments and pros before, and has a good system in place to please both parties. Plus, this allows New players to respec mistakes as well. Why should a newer player get access to such a utility that we didn't have a year ago? What happens to the players who just passed out of eligibly getting a respec? Is that fair to them that they grinded and played just to be left out? "You insulted my boat. No one insults my boat. It no doubt cost more then the entire village you came from." - Roman83
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4443	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:35:00 - [19] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: They cant roll back the changes now, the 1.9 patch is under review at Sony. Harden The **** Up As a fact: Actually, the respec option is a store item. It can easily be delisted server-side. As another fact: Don't expect it to happen. I am historically not a fan of respecs, but the serious issues that respecs could present are largely mitigated by 1.9 itself, as well as the recent hotfixes. While you can respec, you may be better of just stacking a couple boosters and jumping your SP gain way up for a short while, for instance. Also, the hotfixes have gotten balance to a close enough point that FOTM jumping is going to be less and less effective. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2460	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:43:00 - [20] - Quote Payed respecs through Aurum are Pay To Win. It is what it is. If CCP Shanghai had a track record of not overlooking OP features or double and tripple nerfing singular items then an Aurum respec would almost be tolerable. However, CCP Shanghai develops DUST 514 with Huge Op features left and forgotten about, Triple and quadruple nerfing things. This allows people like me with nearly 60m SP, to pay to spec out of nerfed items and completely specialize around the FOTM with each screw up CCP Shanghai will inevitably make. This will create alot of hate at this process and direct blame leading back to CCP as a whole... If Respecs where payed for by ISK.... Say 50-100m ISK..... Then you could use your Aurum on market assistants for ISK gains and Loyalty store and indirectly gather the resources you would need to respec.. This gives a buffer to players respec'ing and how often they can do it with a clear choice of consequence around it.

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4467	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:46:00 - [21] - Quote It'd be nice if people knew what pay to win actually was. :) Just saying "pay to win" does not make a thing pay to win. CCP Shanghai's current record is aggressively buffing and nerfing unbalanced fits on a regular hotfix schedule. Things occurring before CCP Rattati was put in that chair should not be held against him. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 595	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:43:00 - [22] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: It'd be nice if people knew what pay to win actually was. :) Just saying "pay to win" does not make a thing pay to win. The game was already 'pay to win' it had boosters which give you an advantage over people that don't have them... This update just makes it slightly more worthwhile, not sure what all the fuss is about myself. At least it's not as obvious as most games, where you actually require the bought items to be competitive... Imagine a tier of suits above proto that required Aur... The outrage would be hysterical.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4468	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:54:00 - [23] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: At least it's not as obvious as most games, where you actually require the bought items to be competitive... Imagine a tier of suits above proto that required Aur... The outrage would be hysterical. This is pay-to-win. Selling boosters that allow you to reach higher levels of SP and/or ISK faster are not pay-to-win. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Ku Shala The Generals 997	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:06:00 - [24] - Quote Isnt Dust 514 is pray to win ? pray the server isnt lagging pray hit detection is working pray your RR doesnt jam Offers honeyed Lamb (cloned form) to ccp *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist *Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 688	Posted - 2014.10.29 21:08:00 - [25] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: They cant roll back the changes now, the 1.9 patch is under review at Sony. Harden The **** Up As a fact: Actually, the respec option is a store item. It can easily be delisted server-side. As another fact: Don't expect it to happen. I am historically not a fan of respecs, but the serious issues that respecs could present are largely mitigated by 1.9 itself, as well as the recent hotfixes. While you can respec, you may be better of just stacking a couple boosters and jumping your SP gain way up for a short while, for instance. Also, the hotfixes have gotten balance to a close enough point that FOTM jumping is going to be less and less effective. How does a new SP faucet mitigate the ability to respec? More SP doesn't mitigate respecs, it compounds them. A stronger argument can be made for removing respecs BECAUSE of the new SP faucets. I think CCP's decision bring respecs to Dust boils down to: 1) CCP needs money, and nothing's wrong with that. 2) Unlimited respecs are a great way to use Dust as ~~free~~ profitable QA for Legion's balance. I'd be willing to bet 10 million ISK that Legion won't have unlimited respecs. As for the HTFU recommendation, tell me again how allowing respecs is in the tradition of HTFU? It's easy mode for unthinking babies.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4477	Posted - 2014.10.29 21:38:00 - [26] - Quote More SP mitigates respecs, because you can just get more SP rather than wasting your money on a respec. Also recent balance adjustments further mitigate respecs, by reducing the amount of advantage you can get from them significantly. Note that I didn't tell you to HTFU. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3334	Posted - 2014.10.29 21:50:00 - [27] - Quote Normally I'm against unlimited respecs. I'd settle for a timed system where you get a respec every X months, but regardless. Considering the state of things in Dust however.....why not? Hell if anything I support it to make the "WE NEED RESPECS!" threads go away. Of course naturally they're now being replaced with "DONT GIVE RESPECS!" threads...further proof that its impossible to make everyone happy. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2465	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:08:00 - [28] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: It'd be nice if people knew what pay to win actually was. :) Just saying "pay to win" does not make a thing pay to win. CCP Shanghai's current record is aggressively buffing and nerfing unbalanced fits on a regular hotfix schedule. Things occurring before CCP Rattati was put in that chair should not be held against him. Respecs that are only bought from micro-transactions in a F2P RPG-(Like) game model are considered industry wide P2W. This is well known from media to developers alike. CCP Rattati has triple nerfed items tons. and has caused vast imbalances in gameplay in the recent patches. No better or worse then the CCP Shanghai of old.... At least he basis his changes somewhat off reason rather then "Internal testing has shown this gun to be to strong" History and a track record has been established. and we have had almost a year under Rattati's changes. Think hard and you know this just isn't true in anyway.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3335	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:12:00 - [29] - Quote They should totally run a sale on Respecs first week ^_^ Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4481	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:23:00 - [30] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Respecs that are only bought from micro-transactions in a F2P RPG-(Like) game model are considered industry wide P2W. False. Bethhy wrote: CCP Rattati has triple nerfed items tons. and has caused vast imbalances in gameplay in the recent patches. False. And hilarious. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5126	Posted - 2014.10.30 01:16:00 - [31] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: They cant roll back the changes now, the 1.9 patch is under review at Sony. Harden The **** Up As a fact: Actually, the respec option is a store item. It can easily be delisted server-side. As another fact: Don't expect it to happen. I am historically not a fan of respecs, but the serious issues that respecs could present are largely mitigated by 1.9 itself, as well as the recent hotfixes. While you can respec, you may be better of just stacking a couple boosters and jumping your SP gain way up for a short while, for instance. Also, the hotfixes have gotten balance to a close enough point that FOTM jumping is going to be less and less effective. How does a new SP faucet mitigate the ability to respec? More SP doesn't mitigate respecs, it compounds them. A stronger argument can be made for removing respecs BECAUSE of the new SP faucets. I think CCP's decision bring respecs to Dust boils down to: 1) CCP needs money, and nothing's wrong with that. 2) Unlimited respecs are a great way to use Dust as ~~free~~ profitable QA for Legion's balance. I'd be willing to bet 10 million ISK that Legion won't have unlimited respecs. As for the HTFU recommendation, tell me again how allowing respecs is in the tradition of HTFU? It's easy mode for unthinking babies. In a way you are probably right. But I look at it as a compromise. People want the ability to RESPEC. I think there's enough missing from Dust/Legion that such long term, hardcore mantras should be toned down until further notice. CCP needs to do whatever dance they can dream of while they stay Manhattan Project about Legion. They can dial it all back a notch if it seems to be devaluing SP too much. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2466	Posted - 2014.10.30 02:21:00 - [32] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Bethhy wrote: Respecs that are only bought from micro-transactions in a F2P RPG-(Like) game model are considered industry wide P2W. False. Bethhy wrote: CCP Rattati has triple nerfed items tons. and has caused vast imbalances in gameplay in the recent patches. False. And hilarious. Between what Aion went through with respecs, Blizzard with WoW.... Even back to classic RPG's like Ragnarok... Respecs for Micro-transactions have been considered industry wide as P2W... Every game that has considered this has gone through this exact discussion. You can claim what you feel about the issue all you want the history and discussions have been present in nearly every title that has considered it. Rattati has buffed swarms while nerfing dropships... Has nerfed or buffed multiple values on the same item. Bolt pistol recently for example. We have been left with weapons and items that have had multiple adjustments on multiple values in the same hotfix. Not adjusting the RoF... then seeing how it works... But Nerfing RoF, Damage and further stats in the same swing. multiple times through this year.m We have seen just as many FOTM with rattati at the helm... Again take a step back, and think about it... Because the track record has been established for nearly a year.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 284	Posted - 2014.10.30 02:33:00 - [33] - Quote I personally am all about 2 things -- variety and mechanics. Gunplay and ability to control my toon are paramount to me playing. Options are paramount to me continuing to play. But all of this can be quickly undone by poor balance. And CCP has been doing a GREAT job in the last few months addressing these problems. These problems needs to be solved. I personally am also against respecs -- however tbh it is so from a philosophical perspective. I subjectively like the concept of choices following you. However with balance undergoing constant review you find that the choices you made are now different than what you made. Like how we all got a suit respec when they released all the suits. No reasonable person is going to complain about that. Yes early on there will be FOTM chasing, and yes (as some other posters mentioned earlier) that will speed up the buffing and nerfing of guns. Balance will normalize faster. THEN respecing will just be a way to play with a different gun (a sidegrade) when you get bored. And I think I'm ok with that.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 3375	Posted - 2014.10.30 03:07:00 - [34] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: What ever happened to the concept of consequence and permanence in this game? Letting anyone hit the undo button at any time will result in people chasing FOTM and broken mechanics with no effort till the end of this game. Respecs will also lower the server population long term. Why log in and earn skill points when that new shiny dropsuit is just a respec away? At least limit it to one respec per year. So the Effective Cap removal and booster stacking is any different? http://evil-guide.tripod.com/


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