Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
66
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Posted - 2014.10.27 02:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Swarm launchers are nice, but sometimes it's either inconvenient (suck it up) or impractical (Logis only have one weapon slot) to carry one.
Whatever shall one do... /cue Wiyrkomi rep
"Introducing the brand-new Swarm Pod! Packaging the reliable Swarm Launcher as a single-shot, ultralight weapon package, this system is compatible with equipment connection device firmware, allowing for smooth, plug-n-play interface with almost any dropsuit on the market."
So, what, you ask, is the Swarm Pod? Well, that beautiful Wyki corp saleswoman just explained it to you. Oh, you want the details, the hard numbers, the nitty gritty? Well, I have that here for you.
Oh, yeah, you in the back? She's not giving you her number.
/statmode engaged
The Swarm Pod, which I will hereafter refer to as merely, "Pod", is functionally very similar to it's bigger brother; however, in gaining the significant advantage of going into an equipment slot, the Pod sacrifices a lot of things. Here's a snapshot of the "statline", so to speak:
Clip Capacity: One shot Max Ammo: Three rounds Reload Time: 3.0 seconds Lock-on Time: 1.75 seconds Lock-on Range: 100 meters Max Missile Range: 200 meters
That's all the non-damage, fittings, and ISK pricing stuff... but obviously all that is quite important. Before I get to it, I'll go over some comparison with the swarm launcher. I'll start by linking the Google Docs changelog spreadsheet for Hotfix Charlie (which had the biggest swarm launcher changes), and for some other miscellaneous stats that weren't changed in HF Charlie, the relevant DUST 514 Wiki page.
So straight off the bat we see a much shorter lock range, long lock-on time, and massively reduced ammunition capacity. The Reload time is admittedly shorter- but it's also a single shot weapon; roughly speaking, to fire 3 shots with the Swarm Launcher proper requires ~4.5 seconds, at which point you go into the 4.5 second reload animation- all of this before skills. By the time you finished firing 3 shots, and start reloading, a Pod has only fired once and is just about done reloading.
Let's assume, for whatever reason, that the Pod had six rounds total ammo. The time to empty two clips out of the Swarm Launcher takes about 13-14 seconds, including the reload time between the first and second salvoes. For the Pod, OTOH, it will take almost thirty seconds to do so. About twice as long to fire the same amount of shots? Obviously, our Pod is not going to be out-DPS'ing a Swarm Launcher.
And that's not even going into the fact that the Pod has only slightly more than half of the lock range, as well as half of the missile flight range, of the Swarm Launcher, or the munition endurance of the Pod being quite lacking (which is on purpose).
But what about damage? Why don't we dig in:
Damage Per Missile: 260 @ STD, 286 @ ADV, 312 @ PRO Splash Damage: 19 dmg, per missile, across all variants and/or tiers Splash Radius: 1.0 meters, per missile, across all variants and/or tiers Missiles Fired Per Shot: 3 missiles, across all variants and/or tiers Damage Type: Hybrid-Rail/Kinetic, -10% Shield/+10% Armor
So, we see straight up that the Pod almost seems the equal of the Swarm Launcher on a per-shot basis, until we get to that pesky little "Number of Missiles Fired" value, which, per the Hotfix Charlie Spreadsheet, is currently normalized at four (4) missiles per volley, across all variants of the Swarm Launcher.
But our little Pod here is only spitting out three of those bad boys. Obviously, it's a little hard to put that in perspective, so here's the total damage per shot value for the Pod variants, as well as STD/ADV/PRO Swarm Launchers:
Total Damage Per Shot, Swarm Pod: 780 @ STD, 858 @ ADV, 936 @ PROTotal Damage Per Shot, Swarm Launcher: 1040 @ STD, 1144 @ ADV, 1248 @ PRO
At this point, it's clear that the Pod is unable to outdamage it's bigger brother, the Swarm Launcher, in almost any conceivable manner. The sole exception is quite obvious; massed Pod fire (IE, multiple people all firing at the same thing) would be quite deadly... but, hey, didn't anybody ever tell you that Teamwork is OP? It is also quite obvious that even at prototype, the Pod simply doesn't provide more damage than the full-on light weapon Launcher.
In any case, for those who are curious, I arrived at these damage values by simply taking the Swarm Launcher values, and subtracting one missile from the volley.
Finally, let's finish with fitting requirements and ISK pricing:
Fitting Requirements/ISK Price, STD: 35 CPU, 2 PG/ 1,500 ISKFitting Requirements/ISK Price, ADV: 49 CPU, 5 PG/ 6,585 ISKFitting Requirements/ISK Price, PRO: 62 CPU, 8 PG/ 21,240 ISK
These values were arrived at by balancing between the fitting requirements of the Swarm Launcher, RE's, and various sidearms; similarly, ISK pricing was determined primarily by using the ISK pricing of the RE's and Swarms, as well as PRO-level sidearms.
Overall, the fitting requirements are intended to offer comparable CPU and reduced PG drain in reference to RE's, since the Pod is significantly less utilitarian than RE's are.
/cues Wyki corp rep
"Thank you for viewing this product presentation, produced by and for the Wiyrkomi Corporation. Have a nice day, and remember, buy Wiyrkomi!"
Buff Logis | Nerf Goldfish
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 04:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:I like, it's an interesting idea and I enjoyed your delivery.
Thank you. I did have some help though /winks at Wyki corp rep
hfderrtgvcd wrote:no. The whole point of AV is that you have to sacrifice your ability to fight infantry. If yo don't want to, get a commando.
The Swarm Pod is weaker than AV grenades. It's hardly a viable, stand-alone AV solution. The only way for this weapon to be anywhere as powerful as a traditional swarm launcher is if you get 4+ players to all fire in very rapid succession at a single vehicle... at which point we come around to "teamwork is OP".
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:And here I though you couldn't add any more training wheels to swarms. Now you don't even need to aim and hold R1, just plop it on the ground and it does all the work for you.
It seems to be a common misconception of those who have so far posted, but the Swarm Pod is NOT a deployable item- it's hand-carried and fired; think of it as being like an Active Scanner that shoots missiles instead of scan-beam-things. Just to guard against further misunderstanding, I've edited that into the OP.
I apologize that I wasn't clear about that; with that clarification, what would be your revised opinion?
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Not a big fan, to be honest, either as an AVer and a pilot:
AVer:
If it's used to augment an AV player (as I assume it's designed to), why would I use this as an equipment instead of a much needed hive? All suits regularly used for AV (Commandos, Assaults, Heavies) either can't use them or would benefit much better from a hive. The only suits you could use it are a Logistics (which would leave you only using a SL, except for the Amarr logi) or a scout (and leave you without a cloak and very killable by both infantry and retaliating vehicles).
I will shamelessly admit that this is mostly angled at giving logis a way to shoot at stuff that would be equipment-related. There just seems like there's a quiet undercurrent of many players and corps teaching their logibros that said logis are nothing more than a walking rep tool. This is a. wrong, and b. stupid. It's actually the reason that- at least for the present- I refuse to train repair tools. It also doesn't help that I find repping to be insufferably boring, either.
The other angle I have is the whiny assault player of yore who complained that he had to switch fits to kill tanks. Now he can try to do that job very badly with a swarm pod, or if he refuses to give up his precious hives (he might run out of ammo, after all!) then he will be lambasted for not just having an AV fit.
The intent is that for a dedicated AV fit, the swarm launcher is in fact generally superior at killing vehicles. If the 'Pod' was the equal of the swarm launcher, then it will almost certainly become the preferred system, at which point swarm launchers will all-but disappear from the field. The goal of the Pod is to provide choices to players- do they want the greater capability and limitations of the swarm launcher, or the lesser limitations and lesser capability of the 'Pod.
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Pilot:
What about spam? Each person gets the ability to drop essentially 2.25 auto-targeting SL AVers. Even 2 or 3 people doing this can easily insta anything in a single volley without any way to fight back or escape (total per person would be 2,574/volley not to mention if the AVer is also fighting). Forget ADSs and Tanks, LAVs would literally be worthless for anything aside from A to B transport.
This complaint seems to be pretty much solved by the clarification that the Swarm Pod is NOT a deployable item, but is more akin to the active scanner and repair tool in that you have to keep it in-hand for it to generally do any good.
That said... I did think about suggesting some kind of "ultralight turret mount" as well that would allow a player to fit a light weapon as a small deployable turret, and this actually gives a very good insight into why that could be potentially very bad in a why I had not considered. Thank you for your complaint.
Buff Logis | Nerf Goldfish
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