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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6773
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Innate reps will never be as effective as modular reps and they never should be.
I see no problem with having the least armour oriented race not having much regen. Not even the Gallente have noticeable innate rep rates. The intention was apparently to give shield oriented suits the use of all their low slots without having to slap reactive plates or armor reppers to them. The first proposal had some issues and the second proposal is arguably worse.
IMO, that -should- be one of the downfalls of shield tanking is that you have to fit a module to get any types of reps on Armor... For the longest time my Gallente Assault had a bonus to shield recharge with only 150 shields, it never persuaded me to fit shield rechargers whenever I lost that bonus.
Although I severely doubt my opinion of "Deal with it or change to armor tanking" will sway people....
Anyway, going with this current setup, my personal opinion would be that the Gallente should have higher reps but I am significantly worried about innate Logi reps as we've gone down that road previously and we had nothing but combat Logi's running around. Personally, I'd rather see the Logi's somewhere toward the bottom as far as reps if only to prevent that mentality. They have much better fitting (slots and CPU/PG) than Assaults anyway so it's not exactly asking much.
{ | bittervetmode = 0
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== Description ==
This player has recovered morale
[[Category: Hopeful]]
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6774
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Innate reps will never be as effective as modular reps and they never should be.
I see no problem with having the least armour oriented race not having much regen. Not even the Gallente have noticeable innate rep rates. The intention was apparently to give shield oriented suits the use of all their low slots without having to slap reactive plates or armor reppers to them. The first proposal had some issues and the second proposal is arguably worse. IMO, that -should- be one of the downfalls of shield tanking is that you have to fit a module to get any types of reps on Armor... For the longest time my Gallente Assault had a bonus to shield recharge with only 150 shields, it never persuaded me to fit shield rechargers whenever I lost that bonus. Although I severely doubt my opinion of "Deal with it or change to armor tanking" will sway people.... Anyway, going with this current setup, my personal opinion would be that the Gallente should have higher reps but I am significantly worried about innate Logi reps as we've gone down that road previously and we had nothing but combat Logi's running around. Personally, I'd rather see the Logi's somewhere toward the bottom as far as reps if only to prevent that mentality. They have much better fitting (slots and CPU/PG) than Assaults anyway so it's not exactly asking much. So should one of the downfalls of armor tanking be that you need to fit a shield recharger or a regulator? or that you simply don't get any shield rep if you have an armor repairer fit? There is a slot tax on shield suits you must use at least one low for an armor rep module unless you want to succumb to attrition. The intent of this change is to remove the slot tax. Armor users don't suffer from this slot tax because they were going to fit an armor rep anyways. Imagine if you had a slot tax on shield repair where you had to fit a shield recharger in order to get any shield rep at all, you would be upset because you'd want to use that valuable slot for something else like a damage mod. We (shield users) want to use our valuable low slot for something else like a dampener or a cardiac regulator, or a SHIELD REGULATOR. We are taxed, you are not, this is unhealthy and you cannot have it both ways.
Sure, I'd be down for it. I really don't think it's that big of a deal, honestly. I think people forget that Shields in and of themselves innately have faster regeneration and this is especially true -on- suits intended for shield tanking. You have to realize that shield tanking suits have their ups where they have their downs; sure, they don't have any base armor repair but in the same sense that the Gallente have at least some minor armor repair built in the Caldari have substantially higher shield regeneration capabilities by comparison.
Further more, while Armor Users don't suffer from this - how'd you put it - 'slot tax', we also have barely anything at all we can even put in our high slots to begin with that contribute to our fighting style. Damage mods, sure, but if you take those out of the mix (as they are extraordinarily high in fitting costs) we're left with... What do you know, shield modules and precision enhancers.
It ain't as one sided as you seem to put on.
{ | bittervetmode = 0
I }
== Description ==
This player has recovered morale
[[Category: Hopeful]]
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6780
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 00:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Sure, I'd be down for it. I really don't think it's that big of a deal, honestly. I think people forget that Shields in and of themselves innately have faster regeneration and this is especially true -on- suits intended for shield tanking. You have to realize that shield tanking suits have their ups where they have their downs; sure, they don't have any base armor repair but in the same sense that the Gallente have at least some minor armor repair built in the Caldari have substantially higher shield regeneration capabilities by comparison.
Further more, while Armor Users don't suffer from this - how'd you put it - 'slot tax', we also have barely anything at all we can even put in our high slots to begin with that contribute to our fighting style. Damage mods, sure, but if you take those out of the mix (as they are extraordinarily high in fitting costs) we're left with... What do you know, shield modules and precision enhancers.
It ain't as one sided as you seem to put on.
"if you take away the 'best' module it doesn't really mean anything!'. I'm sorry that high slots don't have a few more desireable modules and that ewar is fundamentally broken, if that wasn't the case you might see my point a bit easier.
Shield Regulators
Ferroscale Plates
Reactive Plates
Cardiac Regulators
Kinetic Catalyzers
Myrofibral Stimulants
Profile Dampeners
Range Enhancers
CPU Upgrades
PG Upgrades
There's a lot list of things you can put in the low-slots when you run Shield Tanking. Your argument is more for 'I want to use more of my utility slots for utility' than 'I want to stack nothing but shield regulators in my lows' because we all know that that's not what is going to happen, not with the extreme amount of fitting costs it would require - even on high end suits. I can see your point clearly, I just don't think it's as much of an issue as people are making it out to be. My opinion wouldn't change even if half of the modules listed above were somehow switched over to high-slots.
That being said, what about Armor Tanking? Shield tankers can fit CPU/PG upgrades in their lows if they need it - but I can't. Do I get a free CPU/PG boost to accommodate my tanking style?
{ | bittervetmode = 0
I }
== Description ==
This player has recovered morale
[[Category: Hopeful]]
|
Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6783
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 04:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:True Adamance wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Shield Regulators
Ferroscale Plates
Reactive Plates
Cardiac Regulators
Kinetic Catalyzers
Myrofibral Stimulants
Profile Dampeners
Range Enhancers
CPU Upgrades
PG Upgrades
There's a lot list of things you can put in the low-slots when you run Shield Tanking. Your argument is more for 'I want to use more of my utility slots for utility' than 'I want to stack nothing but shield regulators in my lows' because we all know that that's not what is going to happen, not with the extreme amount of fitting costs it would require - even on high end suits. I can see your point clearly, I just don't think it's as much of an issue as people are making it out to be. My opinion wouldn't change even if half of the modules listed above were somehow switched over to high-slots.
That being said, what about Armor Tanking? Shield tankers can fit CPU/PG upgrades in their lows if they need it - but I can't. Do I get a free CPU/PG boost to accommodate my tanking style? Do you have modules that cost 90cpu to fit? Simple answer? Reduce fitting costs. Not institute native armour reps. You're treating the symptom, not the problem - wait, nope, you're not even doing that True. This game is not designed to have potentially unbreakable tanks like eve is, the speed at which armor users get shield back without modules sets a very bad double standard. Imagine having the 5+ minute long shield repair rate that old gunnlogi's had with passive repair increasing module on every armor dropsuit that wasn't fit with 'proper' shield modules and you might come close to understanding what it feels like to be a current shield tanker under the 'Slot Tax'. Native armor repair is not a bad thing.
Or you could just use one of those free low slots to fit a CPU extender... Since they have 0 fitting costs what-so-ever. It's a luxury most if not all armor tankers simply don't get the option of fitting because we desperately need to fit all the low slots we can with things that contribute to our tanking style; whereas the current argument here is simply, "because we have to if we want to make use of the armor that we don't tank".
And if you really wanna bring Eve Online into the mix you really should consider the fact that most if not all shield tankers in Eve will -never- fit an armor repairer despite none of the ships having innate armor repair. I'd sooner give up my built-in repair as a Gal Assault to end the constant entitlement toward it from other players than say, "Yeah, let's make the same mistakes we made when the Logis all had 5 HP/sec built-in from skill bonuses."
It's this players honest opinion that it's just not worth it and I think we're starting to go into a Call of Duty-esque mentality by entitling every player to the ability to have some kind of innate regen, regardless of how much it goes against that particular race's combat philosophy. As I said before, it's a draw-back of the Shield Tanker, and it never stopped anyone in the past two years. Not until now, at least.
{ | bittervetmode = 0
I }
== Description ==
This player has recovered morale
[[Category: Hopeful]]
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