DUST Search - [Feedback] Adv Swarm dealing over 3k damage.

Derpty Derp wrote:

Should a swarm be able to hit the weakspot on vehicles, or should it be reserved for weapons that require aiming as a risk/reward for a higher chance to miss the target all-together?

3 times my proto-fit Incubus has been 2 shotted by swarms (well once I was flying someone elses, but that was pre-Delta) and I've just assumed I missed something.

But today I watched the guy who shot me, I did a simple fly by and took out the roof spawn before heading behind a tower. The first shot fired and took down my shields, but my armour was full before the 2nd lot came around the tower and hit dropping my armour from full to 0. I stayed in the ship to see it was a CBR7 whatever fired from a Sentinel (Not even a fecking commando... Skraaaaab, lol.)

I'm assuming this is because of the weak spot, they did appear to bend round to the back end of the ship (even though I'd turned to face them.) This would seem to explain those wtf moments when I have the hardener up and yet take more damage than the same swarmer who just shot me without the hardener.

Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .

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Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 543	Posted - 2014.10.19 22:05:00 - [1] - Quote Should a swarm be able to hit the weakspot on vehicles, or should it be reserved for weapons that require aiming as a risk/reward for a higher chance to miss the target all-together? 3 times my proto-fit Incubus has been 2 shotted by swarms (well once I was flying someone elses, but that was pre-Delta) and I've just assumed I missed something. But today I watched the guy who shot me, I did a simple fly by and took out the roof spawn before heading behind a tower. The first shot fired and took down my shields, but my armour was full before the 2nd lot came around the tower and hit dropping my armour from full to 0. I stayed in the ship to see it was a CBR7 whatever fired from a Sentinel (Not even a fecking commando... Skraaaaab, lol.) I'm assuming this is because of the weak spot, they did appear to bend round to the back end of the ship (even though I'd turned to face them.) This would seem to explain those wtf moments when I have the hardener up and yet take more damage than the same swarmer who just shot me without the hardener.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 233	Posted - 2014.10.19 22:17:00 - [2] - Quote Thats insane espececially since the back of the dropship is the weak point means swarms hit it every time.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1240	Posted - 2014.10.20 04:19:00 - [3] - Quote I have shot at hundreds of ADS and have never had that happen. Because, that's why.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 438	Posted - 2014.10.20 05:23:00 - [4] - Quote That amount of damage is impossible to do with a swarm launcher. You sure that you havent beeing hit by a railgun/forgegun just a sec before the swarm volley did hit? Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
X7 lion Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 349	Posted - 2014.10.20 06:14:00 - [5] - Quote swarms need a system where you have to keep aim on the target or you lose lock on, as apposed to fire and forget Do not contribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance. being contradictory is not the same as being offensive.
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 309	Posted - 2014.10.20 07:02:00 - [6] - Quote X7 lion wrote: swarms need a system where you have to keep aim on the target or you lose lock on, as apposed to fire and forget I wouldn't do that. A swarm user already has to find the time to lock on a vehicle while being shot at by infantry or potentially an aware vehicle user. The current system allows hit and run tactics to mitigate the risk or at least provide enough of harassment to drive a vehicle away but you are asking the user to take more risk having to lock on, fire, and then manually track a vehicle as they move between cover points, range or even have to contend with LoS issues with rocks or pillars. If they lose lock, the missiles don't track and lose their target. That means even a little bit of fire can negate AV users from doing their job. Not to mention that kind of locking system will nerf the swarms dps as you have to unlock to fire another set of swarms. I would call for another damage or speed buff to swarms if we go that route. High Risk, but high reward 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 552	Posted - 2014.10.20 10:17:00 - [7] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: That amount of damage is impossible to do with a swarm launcher. You sure that you havent beeing hit by a railgun/forgegun just a sec before the swarm volley did hit? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80593&find=unread Line Harvest, 6 towers map. Domination. I was just below the top of the tower at E5, which was the side we were attacking from, they were on the middle tower. It would be seriously difficult for someone to get a shot as they would need to be in the redzone and a tank would have to tilt up pretty far to hit me where I was. There were 2 people alive on the roof, they had just spawned one was clearly carrying a sniper the other clearly a swarm launcher I took out the spawn and was behind the top of the tower for a good 2 seconds before the swarm came around and hit. I clearly felt the 4 missiles hit each one dropped the hp by about a quarter. I've been shot at by a lot of AV in my dropship and there are very distinct differences depending on what you're hit by. Getting shot by a forge is very noticeable while being bombarded by swarms. As I said I've assumed people firing multiple shots in the previous times, just because I wasn't paying enough attention, sometimes flying over something or hovering and shooting, but this time it was obvious there was 1 guy shooting and he only had the time to fire the 2 shots as I knew he was there and therefore how long i had. It was one of those rare times when the swarms actually render and are in sync, the damage hit perfectly in time with the collisions. It seems very high damage for a swarm, though I have no idea what the weak-point modifier for swarms is.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 552	Posted - 2014.10.20 10:24:00 - [8] - Quote X7 lion wrote: swarms need a system where you have to keep aim on the target or you lose lock on, as apposed to fire and forget As much as this would be nice for me as a pilot, it would cause a few obvious issues sadly. At what point could they fire the second load while they're having to hold the previous lock? Also you could avoid every swarm by flying directly above the swarmer as they would have to pull of a 180 twist during the point nothing of a second you spend directly above them. & while being so close you would have more than enough time to blow them to hell. I'd personally like something where the swarms offset more the further from the center of the vehicle the view is during the lock, so some swarms will possibly fly past or flail nicely around from the center of the path of the vehicle, therefore allowing a close call with a wall to have some chance of them hitting it... Currently they just follow your exact path around it.
Atiim 13089	Posted - 2014.10.20 11:57:00 - [9] - Quote Considering how it's possible (and practical) to move the ship to where it doesn't hit the weakspot, but the nose of the DS instead I don't find a problem with this. Also: 286(1.12)(1.2)(1.4)(4) = 2562HP; I'd love to see where your >3k HP figures from. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 834	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:11:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: Considering how it's possible (and practical) to move the ship to where it doesn't hit the weakspot, but the nose of the DS instead I don't find a problem with this. That's quite simply not how Swarms actually operate in game. Swarms don't follow logical courses, evidenced by the fact that Swarms sometimes spin wildly around the target. Swarms will hit wherever they deign to hit, and very rarely does pilot maneouvring actually make a difference as to where that is. You may have tried dropships, but your experience is fairly obviously limited. No offence intended, it's just that you often talk with an authoritative tone when it quite simply is not that clear cut. Alt of Halla Murr.

Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 560	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:15:00 - [11] - Quote Atiim wrote: Considering how it's possible (and practical) to move the ship to where it doesn't hit the weakspot, but the nose of the DS instead I don't find a problem with this. Also: 286(1.12)(1.2)(1.4)(4) = 2562HP; I'd love to see where your >3k HP figures from. Apparently you missed the part where I turned towards the swarms to watch them fly at me and they followed the path of the arse end of the ship anway... But yes I'd like to know where this 3k damage comes from as well, the figures are from the the hp bar which was full before the first of the 4 missiles impacted, my fit has something like 3045 armour, hence the over 3k approximation.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 52	Posted - 2014.10.20 23:08:00 - [12] - Quote The dropship's weak spots are the nacells, and it ads 50% damage. Perhaps there are more factors at play here than just the swarms. Maybe a forge round or a tank at the same time, or perhaps another volley from another swarmer. I do know tanks seems to take extra damage in their rear armor if targeted by a forge. 200%, but you have to have to hit them right in the middle. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1302	Posted - 2014.10.21 00:45:00 - [13] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Thats insane espececially since the back of the dropship is the weak point means swarms hit it every time. thats if an ads chooses to run away insted of evade.. but i have never seen my adv swarms hitting 3k even with 3x damage mods [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1302	Posted - 2014.10.21 00:46:00 - [14] - Quote X7 lion wrote: swarms need a system where you have to keep aim on the target or you lose lock on, as apposed to fire and forget i disagree.. we are already too vulnerable while we look up in the air to get a lock and then fire at the ADS/DS it means even a heavy could walk up to us and punch us to death [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1302	Posted - 2014.10.21 00:48:00 - [15] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: and they followed the path of the arse end of the ship anway... They want that Bootay [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Atiim 13102	Posted - 2014.10.21 03:09:00 - [16] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: That's quite simply not how Swarms actually operate in game. Swarms don't follow logical courses, evidenced by the fact that Swarms sometimes spin wildly around the target. Swarms will hit wherever they deign to hit, and very rarely does pilot maneouvring actually make a difference as to where that is. This is false. I've spent an hour a few days ago testing a Myron build against Swarms, and I can confirm that facing towards the Swarmer or the Swarmer attacking you from the front will result in the volley hitting the nose, not the weakspot. Kallas Hallytyr wrote: You may have tried dropships, but your experience is fairly obviously limited. No offense intended, it's just that you often talk with an authoritative tone when it quite simply is not that clear cut. I've been flying Dropships for almost a year now, and I have a pretty clear grasp of what I'm talking about. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Atiim 13102	Posted - 2014.10.21 03:23:00 - [17] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Atiim wrote: Considering how it's possible (and practical) to move the ship to where it doesn't hit the weakspot, but the nose of the DS instead I don't find a problem with this. Also: 286(1.12)(1.2)(1.4)(4) = 2562HP; I'd love to see where your >3k HP figures from. Apparently you missed the part where I turned towards the swarms to watch them fly at me and they followed the path of the arse end of the ship anway... [edit] Apparently i forgot to type it, lol... My bad, but I did turn towards it and I also intended to write it, but I guess the wall 'o' text was long enough to leave some out.[edit] [2nd edit] ignore the first edit it's in the first post, apparently I just can't read either >___< lol[2nd edit] But yes I'd like to know where this 3k damage comes from as well, the figures are from the the hp bar which was full before the first of the 4 missiles impacted, my fit has something like 3045 armour, hence the over 3k approximation. There may have been a second volley that hit at the same time but didn't render. Do you remember what the damage dealt said on the killscreen? Also, why would someone put a Swarm Launcher on a Sentinel? That's just dumb >.< The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 834	Posted - 2014.10.21 05:55:00 - [18] - Quote Atiim wrote: [This is false. I've spent an hour a few days ago testing a Myron build against Swarms, and I can confirm that facing towards the Swarmer or the Swarmer attacking you from the front will result in the volley hitting the nose, not the weakspot.I've been flying Dropships for almost a year now, and I have a pretty clear grasp of what I'm talking about. Really? You've not encounter Swarms that decide to fly tiny circles around your dropship? Or that sweep around and hit whenever they feel like? You really do live in a world entirely apart from actual vehicle players. You have several experienced pilots saying that they have witnessed and personally encountered the situation you are declaring to be entirely inconceivable - we're not saying it happens every time, but it does happen and not that uncommonly. That is a fact, regardless of how much you dislike it. Alt of Halla Murr.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1286	Posted - 2014.10.21 11:21:00 - [19] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Should a swarm be able to hit the weakspot on vehicles, or should it be reserved for weapons that require aiming as a risk/reward for a higher chance to miss the target all-together? 3 times my proto-fit Incubus has been 2 shotted by swarms (well once I was flying someone elses, but that was pre-Delta) and I've just assumed I missed something. But today I watched the guy who shot me, I did a simple fly by and took out the roof spawn before heading behind a tower. The first shot fired and took down my shields, but my armour was full before the 2nd lot came around the tower and hit dropping my armour from full to 0. I stayed in the ship to see it was a CBR7 whatever fired from a Sentinel (Not even a fecking commando... Skraaaaab, lol.) I'm assuming this is because of the weak spot, they did appear to bend round to the back end of the ship (even though I'd turned to face them.) This would seem to explain those wtf moments when I have the hardener up and yet take more damage than the same swarmer who just shot me without the hardener. Do you know what their proficiency was on their swarms .?. and if they were using a sentinel , how many damage mods were fitted ( sure they were proto ? ) or if there was a hidden forge gunner or PC in the area coupled with a hidden swarm ? There probably were some unseen and unknown factors in what happened to you . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1286	Posted - 2014.10.21 11:25:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: Also, why would someone put a Swarm Launcher on a Sentinel? That's just dumb >.< Not really , you have the resistance bonuses in case of taking oncoming fire or if your breached and with the CPU / PG , you could stack pro damage mods , it's actually smart but Commandos are more effective if it's a Min or Cal . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1286	Posted - 2014.10.21 11:30:00 - [21] - Quote X7 lion wrote: swarms need a system where you have to keep aim on the target or you lose lock on, as apposed to fire and forget You already have to do that as with moving targets and with their small window with range , anything else would hinder the process . Contrary to how you put it and how many think , it's not a point and shoot weapon . Range kills the weapon and objects move out of range in an instant , people just need to be more aware and stop trying to eat damage , you just don't know a persons set up or how much they have invested . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3786	Posted - 2014.10.21 11:57:00 - [22] - Quote Why the hell do you nerds keep holding up the minmatar commando up like it's the last word in AV? It does about 40 damage more per volley than a triple-modded gallente assault. That's more damage sure. It's not nearly enough to change the number of swarm volleys it takes to kill a vehicle. TTK is identical. The caldari commando has no bonuses to AV. It has railgun bonuses. Swarms are explosive and they can't carry a forge gun. But a gallente assault, amssault, calssault and minssault are equally efficient AV operators to minmatar commandos. If a dropship dies in 4 volleys to one at max skills it will die to all of them in four volleys. Suit doesn't mean squat. Damage mod spread matters. The only place minmandos truly excel is deploying mass drivers for murdering scouts. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 560	Posted - 2014.10.21 12:51:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: There may have been a second volley that hit at the same time but didn't render. Do you remember what the damage dealt said on the killscreen? Also, why would someone put a Swarm Launcher on a Sentinel? That's just dumb >.< Unfortunately I didn't think to check that, I rarely ever view more than the suit & weapon used. He sure as hell didn't have time to fire an extra volley it was one of my more accurate moves with the afterburner going, by the time he'd fired the 2nd I was just coming round the corner of the tower. If there is a next time, I'll be sure to check (though harshly I'm kind of hoping it happens to someone else instead, lol.) But as has been said, using a Sentinel is actually not the worst idea, use a squishy suit and you get downed before you can fire a second shot... & on a tower, there's no one gonna run up and shotgun you to death, lol.


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