DUST Search - Assault HMG (What is needed)

Fox Gaden wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Fox Gaden wrote:

I only occasionally overheat the Militia HMG and I run it quite a lot. What I am proposing for the Standard HMG is 3.5 less heat buildup than the Militia HMG has now. I really donGÇÖt think it will be a problem once people get used to it.

The Militia is not supposed to be great. Right now I always use a Militia instead of a Standard. The drawbacks of the Militia are not significant enough to make me want to run Standard.

there's no reason for it besides your assertion that it will be "more fun for experienced sentinels," which is bullsh*t.

the only thing that has is stopping power. that's it's only advantage. it overheats, has **** range and fits on a moving target. Making it easier to dogpile sentinels in CQC and less risky to do so will not make it more balanced or more fun.

If you gotta cook up nerfs for something, nerf the logi/sentinel leash team. Don't touch my freaking gun again.

Well the other reason is that the regular HMG is so easy to use that anyone can do it. It is hard to get any respect as an HMG Sentinel, as people just think you have taken the easy way. I also think this ease of use is making it very popular and that there are more HMG Sentinels on the field than there should be.

I would like to see the HMG require a bit more thought to use, while keeping it powerful in the right hands.

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Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4587	Posted - 2014.10.17 19:22:00 - [1] - Quote It needs another 10m of Optimal and Effective range. That is it! (Well, maybe reduce dispersion if that is limiting its effective range.) (Range is needed for maps such as Manus Peak where HMG is otherwise useless.) Damage if fine. It eats people at 30m but is weak in CQC as it should be. It is effective on a small number of maps now and in specific situations. Giving it a bit more range would make it useful in more situations where the other HMGGÇÖs are not effective. The DPS trade-off between the Assault and the other HMGGÇÖs is appropriate. You just donGÇÖt use an Assault HMG in a city unless you expect to be firing at people hunkered down on the other side of a street or you want to fire from a rooftop. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4590	Posted - 2014.10.17 20:27:00 - [2] - Quote Also, I have seen pictures of the Caldari Production Facility. HMG Sentinels are going to need a longer range option. That place looks very open! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1959	Posted - 2014.10.17 20:28:00 - [3] - Quote Reduce dispersion both min and max. Run metrics. I don't want it I just need it To breath, to feel, to know I'm alive
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3709	Posted - 2014.10.17 22:25:00 - [4] - Quote dispersion is going to make or break the gun. at it's max optimal it's utter sh*t because of the dispersion. any closer use a boundless, you'll do it faster. Bluntly the assault HMG needs to shoot as far as a battle rifle, have tight dispersion, expanding instead of tightening reticle and lower heat build to compensate for the lukewarm damage output.
killertojo42 Trevor Philips Enterprises 68	Posted - 2014.10.17 23:06:00 - [5] - Quote Everything here is spot on with me , I dabble in heavies all the time but the assault HMG is near dead at the moment When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 180	Posted - 2014.10.17 23:20:00 - [6] - Quote HMG aren't meant for long range. Honestly its the only thing keeping heavies from being even more godly then they already are. Be happy most the objectives in this game are so close quarters that you are gods.
killertojo42 Trevor Philips Enterprises 68	Posted - 2014.10.17 23:47:00 - [7] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: HMG aren't meant for long range. Honestly its the only thing keeping heavies from being even more godly then they already are. Be happy most the objectives in this game are so close quarters that you are gods. The assault is supposed to be long range and as an almost assault only player at its current DPS I'm in favor of giving it a range buff When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4599	Posted - 2014.10.18 00:18:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: dispersion is going to make or break the gun. at it's max optimal it's utter sh*t because of the dispersion. any closer use a boundless, you'll do it faster. Bluntly the assault HMG needs to shoot as far as a battle rifle, have tight dispersion, expanding instead of tightening reticle and lower heat build to compensate for the lukewarm damage output. Pretty much this. It needs to be effective at a longer range, more comparable to the Rifles, and you are right, that would mean reducing dispersion, along with making the range comparable to the Combat Rifle. Its heat buildup is already minimal, and I would keep it that way, as you say, due to its lower DPS. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4599	Posted - 2014.10.18 00:21:00 - [9] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: HMG aren't meant for long range. Honestly its the only thing keeping heavies from being even more godly then they already are. Be happy most the objectives in this game are so close quarters that you are gods. We canGÇÖt equip a normal HMG and an Assault HMG at the same time, and the Assault HMG is very lacking at close range. That is a tradeoff you donGÇÖt have to make with a Combat Rifle or Rail Rifle. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Spankdamonke Dapper Gentlemen Corporation 32	Posted - 2014.10.18 00:41:00 - [10] - Quote It needs a starting dispersion about 20-25% less, and a higher/faster rate of max accuracy gain than it currently possesses. I'm fine with it otherwise. Certainly wouldn't complain about another few meters effective range though

Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 180	Posted - 2014.10.18 00:46:00 - [11] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: HMG aren't meant for long range. Honestly its the only thing keeping heavies from being even more godly then they already are. Be happy most the objectives in this game are so close quarters that you are gods. We canGÇÖt equip a normal HMG and an Assault HMG at the same time, and the Assault HMG is very lacking at close range. That is a tradeoff you donGÇÖt have to make with a Combat Rifle or Rail Rifle. Try standard Combat Rifle in CQC, and the Breach or Standard Assault Rifle vs Tactical in CQC
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 568	Posted - 2014.10.18 01:48:00 - [12] - Quote Well, Assault variants of already full auto weapons typically means faster RoF with lower damage per shot, with an overall slight boost in DPS, but a smaller amount of damage per mag. Take normal HMG: Cut Damage by 15% Increase RoF by 25% Reduce magazine to 90% Bam! Assault HMG! Ask for a Breach HMG if you want a longer ranged HMG. Basically it would be a Hipfire only ACR with a massive magazine. Swag-suit4lyfe!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3719	Posted - 2014.10.18 07:59:00 - [13] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Well, Assault variants of already full auto weapons typically means faster RoF with lower damage per shot, with an overall slight boost in DPS, but a smaller amount of damage per mag. Take normal HMG: Cut Damage by 15% Increase RoF by 25% Reduce magazine to 90% Bam! Assault HMG! Ask for a Breach HMG if you want a longer ranged HMG. Basically it would be a Hipfire only ACR with a massive magazine. Proto hmg damage per shot: 19.8 if I recall. It increases by .9 at each tier. The assault stops at 15 per shot as a rough because I cannot remember for sure. That's 75% less than the boundless in raw DPS. Let's not increase that. But let's put the range at rifle levels and significantly drop the dispersion and you get a suppression weapon that everyone wanted the HMG to be. Drop the heat build to the old HMG values and drop the vehicle efficacy to 5% so it's clearly infantry suppression and then tweak it until it performs overall as a weapon should be. But the assault damage needs to have that significant drop from the standard HMG that it already has. It should compete with rifles at range and get torn up in CQC.
Jebus McKing lol Proto 790	Posted - 2014.10.18 09:52:00 - [14] - Quote I'd say drastically reduce dispersion first and see how it turns out. If it then still needs love you can buff range afterwards. DUST514 is love // @JebusMcKing
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4607	Posted - 2014.10.18 12:36:00 - [15] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: I'd say drastically reduce dispersion first and see how it turns out. If it then still needs love you can buff range afterwards. Anyone know what the current Optimal and Effective range profile is on the Assault HMG? You could be right, if the range profile is already equivalent to the Combat Rifle. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2018	Posted - 2014.10.18 12:46:00 - [16] - Quote Do we really need long range hmg`s though? I mean I hate the buggers but if you guys insist..... "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 776	Posted - 2014.10.18 13:44:00 - [17] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Do we really need long range hmg`s though? I mean I hate the buggers but if you guys insist..... I don't play a heavy but I'd love to see a 'longish'-range HMG. If my purple G-1 can equip a longish-range AR variant then a Caldari Sentinel should be able to equip a longish-range HMG, right? Just don't overdo it. A heavy with an HMG should never go into medium-to-long range fights. Seeing a HMG should always intuitively tell you to keep your distance. The upper limit for a HMG-damage profile would, in my opinion, be the range profile of an AR. If we need a heavy anti-infantry weapon beyond that I'd rather start a discussion on the assault forgegun, to be honest. P.S.: The 'Assault' tag seems wrong for the weapon if it's supposed to be the low-DPS high-range variant. That should be cleaned up one day.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3723	Posted - 2014.10.18 14:12:00 - [18] - Quote I was thinking the AR ranges would be sufficient. Plus it overheats. On second thought with the huge drum magazine keep the heat at standard level or so. Dropping it back might creste performance artifacting when compared to the battle rifles. Overheat needs to be a real worry with the HMG.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4611	Posted - 2014.10.18 18:09:00 - [19] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Do we really need long range hmg`s though? I mean I hate the buggers but if you guys insist..... A Normal HMG is about as useful in Manus Peak Domination as a Swarm Launcher in the Research Facility Domination. It is a choice between giving HMG Sentinels a long range option, or put up with Sentinels using Rail Rifles, or hunting with LAVGÇÖs. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4611	Posted - 2014.10.18 18:17:00 - [20] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Do we really need long range hmg`s though? I mean I hate the buggers but if you guys insist..... I don't play a heavy but I'd love to see a 'longish'-range HMG. If my purple G-1 can equip a longish-range AR variant then a Caldari Sentinel should be able to equip a longish-range HMG, right? Just don't overdo it. A heavy with an HMG should never go into medium-to-long range fights. Seeing a HMG should always intuitively tell you to keep your distance. The upper limit for a HMG-damage profile would, in my opinion, be the range profile of an AR. If we need a heavy anti-infantry weapon beyond that I'd rather start a discussion on the assault forgegun, to be honest. P.S.: The 'Assault' tag seems wrong for the weapon if it's supposed to be the low-DPS high-range variant. That should be cleaned up one day. As far as range goes it needs to reach about 10m farther than it does now. I am not quite sure how that stacks up against the rifle ranges. I agree on the GÇ£AssaultGÇ¥ tag on both the HMG and SMG long-range variants. "Tactical" might be better. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4614	Posted - 2014.10.18 18:25:00 - [21] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I was thinking the AR ranges would be sufficient. Plus it overheats. On second thought with the huge drum magazine keep the heat at standard level or so. Dropping it back might creste performance artifacting when compared to the battle rifles. Overheat needs to be a real worry with the HMG. It takes a lot longer to kill stuff with the Assault HMG than with a Standard, so you canGÇÖt have too much heat buildup or it could gimp the gun. Of all the variants I feel the Assault HMG should have the least heat buildup, as it has by far the least DPS. Here are my thoughts on Heat Buildup for the regular HMG. Current Heat Buildup per Second: Militia HMG: 23.5 Standard HMG: 16 Advanced HMG: 15.2 Prototype HMG: 14.4 Officer HMG: 12.8 My Proposed Heat Buildup per Second for Echo: Militia HMG: 26 Standard HMG: 20 Advanced HMG: 18 Prototype HMG: 16 Officer HMG: 14 For those who donGÇÖt know what the numbers mean, I am calling for a nerf for the regular HMG. Not a big nerf, but one that would make them a little more fun for skilled Sentinels, and a little less easy for those who are not dedicated to the Class. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3740	Posted - 2014.10.18 19:25:00 - [22] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I was thinking the AR ranges would be sufficient. Plus it overheats. On second thought with the huge drum magazine keep the heat at standard level or so. Dropping it back might creste performance artifacting when compared to the battle rifles. Overheat needs to be a real worry with the HMG. It takes a lot longer to kill stuff with the Assault HMG than with a Standard, so you canGÇÖt have too much heat buildup or it could gimp the gun. Of all the variants I feel the Assault HMG should have the least heat buildup, as it has by far the least DPS. Here are my thoughts on Heat Buildup for the regular HMG. Current Heat Buildup per Second: Militia HMG: 23.5 Standard HMG: 16 Advanced HMG: 15.2 Prototype HMG: 14.4 Officer HMG: 12.8 My Proposed Heat Buildup per Second for Echo: Militia HMG: 26 Standard HMG: 20 Advanced HMG: 18 Prototype HMG: 16 Officer HMG: 14 For those who donGÇÖt know what the numbers mean, I am calling for a nerf for the regular HMG. Not a big nerf, but one that would make them a little more fun for skilled Sentinels, and a little less easy for those who are not dedicated to the Class. christ on a crutch no. Those heat buildup numbers are way too high, that is NOT a small nerf. the militia POS overheats after 100 rounds and that'll put the basic right behind it.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4614	Posted - 2014.10.18 23:51:00 - [23] - Quote I only occasionally overheat the Militia HMG and I run it quite a lot. What I am proposing for the Standard HMG is 3.5 less heat buildup than the Militia HMG has now. I really donGÇÖt think it will be a problem once people get used to it. The Militia is not supposed to be great. Right now I always use a Militia instead of a Standard. The drawbacks of the Militia are not significant enough to make me want to run Standard. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3751	Posted - 2014.10.19 12:05:00 - [24] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I only occasionally overheat the Militia HMG and I run it quite a lot. What I am proposing for the Standard HMG is 3.5 less heat buildup than the Militia HMG has now. I really donGÇÖt think it will be a problem once people get used to it. The Militia is not supposed to be great. Right now I always use a Militia instead of a Standard. The drawbacks of the Militia are not significant enough to make me want to run Standard. there's no reason for it besides your assertion that it will be "more fun for experienced sentinels," which is bullsht. the only thing that has is stopping power. that's it's only advantage. it overheats, has *** range and fits on a moving target. Making it easier to dogpile sentinels in CQC and less risky to do so will not make it more balanced or more fun. If you gotta cook up nerfs for something, nerf the logi/sentinel leash team. Don't touch my freaking gun again.
Centurion molokov Zion's Elite 12	Posted - 2014.10.19 12:22:00 - [25] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: HMG aren't meant for long range. Honestly its the only thing keeping heavies from being even more godly then they already are. Be happy most the objectives in this game are so close quarters that you are gods. Hi, whining medium/scout
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4615	Posted - 2014.10.19 14:05:00 - [26] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I only occasionally overheat the Militia HMG and I run it quite a lot. What I am proposing for the Standard HMG is 3.5 less heat buildup than the Militia HMG has now. I really donGÇÖt think it will be a problem once people get used to it. The Militia is not supposed to be great. Right now I always use a Militia instead of a Standard. The drawbacks of the Militia are not significant enough to make me want to run Standard. there's no reason for it besides your assertion that it will be "more fun for experienced sentinels," which is bullsht. the only thing that has is stopping power. that's it's only advantage. it overheats, has *** range and fits on a moving target. Making it easier to dogpile sentinels in CQC and less risky to do so will not make it more balanced or more fun. If you gotta cook up nerfs for something, nerf the logi/sentinel leash team. Don't touch my freaking gun again. Well the other reason is that the regular HMG is so easy to use that anyone can do it. It is hard to get any respect as an HMG Sentinel, as people just think you have taken the easy way. I also think this ease of use is making it very popular and that there are more HMG Sentinels on the field than there should be. I would like to see the HMG require a bit more thought to use, while keeping it powerful in the right hands. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Jebus McKing lol Proto 791	Posted - 2014.10.19 14:24:00 - [27] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: I'd say drastically reduce dispersion first and see how it turns out. If it then still needs love you can buff range afterwards. Anyone know what the current Optimal and Effective range profile is on the Assault HMG? You could be right, if the range at which it is effective now is not coming anywhere close to its effective range. I'm not entirely sure but last time I checked optimal and effective ranges were close to what the ARs ranges are. And if that still is the case I don't think the AHMG should get a range buff. But a tighter dispersion would make it easier to actually apply damage at those ranges. DUST514 is love // @JebusMcKing
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3752	Posted - 2014.10.19 14:37:00 - [28] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I only occasionally overheat the Militia HMG and I run it quite a lot. What I am proposing for the Standard HMG is 3.5 less heat buildup than the Militia HMG has now. I really donGÇÖt think it will be a problem once people get used to it. The Militia is not supposed to be great. Right now I always use a Militia instead of a Standard. The drawbacks of the Militia are not significant enough to make me want to run Standard. there's no reason for it besides your assertion that it will be "more fun for experienced sentinels," which is bullsht. the only thing that has is stopping power. that's it's only advantage. it overheats, has *** range and fits on a moving target. Making it easier to dogpile sentinels in CQC and less risky to do so will not make it more balanced or more fun. If you gotta cook up nerfs for something, nerf the logi/sentinel leash team. Don't touch my freaking gun again. Well the other reason is that the regular HMG is so easy to use that anyone can do it. It is hard to get any respect as an HMG Sentinel, as people just think you have taken the easy way. I also think this ease of use is making it very popular and that there are more HMG Sentinels on the field than there should be. I would like to see the HMG require a bit more thought to use, while keeping it powerful in the right hands. Wanting respect is not valid reason for nerf. you're looking for respect from the dust community. therein lies your first mistake.


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