DUST Search - @Rattari: You still havent fixed swarms

Gyn Wallace wrote:

Lazer Fo Cused wrote:

3.Speed - Increased if for ADS which means all ground vehicles cannot escape since they can still go around multiple corners, also ADS cannot escape swarms when in the air with an AB on, top speed is slower than swarms

4.Lock on - You can look at the smallest part of an exposed vehicle and obtain a lock on which happens to be in the middle of the vehicle that cannot be seen- That is broken - You can also then look away from the vehicle and still fire swarms - That is broken, if you look away from the vehicle you should automatically lose lock on

5.Fire & forget - No risk all reward, 3 volleys in less than 4 seconds which fires invisible missiles which can go around mulitple corners and catch up to the fastest vehicle with ease ...

6. Anti air or anti ground - You change it for one side you upset the balance of the other espc since it is a no skill no aim required weapon - The FG can do both because it requires aim, as can the PLC tho it is better as a anti ground weapon, the SL needs to be one or the other and really it would be better as it is more suited to an anti air role

Please consider, that there is a point after which, adding passion or hyperbole to your argument doesn't help; it hurts your argument and your credibility.

ADSs routinely outrun my proto swarms. Not always, but sometimes. Your complaints to the contrary, that ADS "cannot escape swarms... with an AB on..." is simply not true.

I routinely can't get a lock on a vehicle, whether LAV, tank, DS, or ADS, unless far more than the "smallest part" is exposed from cover. Your claims to the contrary simply are not true.

You make one good point. Swarms are more effective against ground vehicles than air vehicles. The solution is not to nerf the swarms, it is to buff AV grenades. To the extent this thread seeks an AV grenade buff, I support it. Nothing big, just a small 2 or 3% damage buff to AV nades, until CCP's stats suggest that the AV nades are strong enough. Maybe were already there, but in my anecdotal experience AV nades could be a little bit stronger without becoming OP. Its also possible that I just need to get better at throwing nades.


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Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.10.17 12:40:00 - [1] - Quote Everytime you buff them to counter a different vehicle like the ADS it causes a greater impact on other vehicles such as ground vehicles 1.Rendering - Still invisible swarms, ADS pilots sometime do not know where swarms are coming from when they are invisible, half the time the 2nd volley is also invisible and that also includes not being able to see the swarm user at ranges of 50m let alone 100m/200m where you do not show up 2. Turn speed - Your 10deg change was useless and what maps do you play on where towers are abundent as walls, they still follow around corners and all the evasive manouvering in the world means jack **** when they stop dead and turn 180 on the spot and set off at full speed 3.Speed - Increased if for ADS which means all ground vehicles cannot escape since they can still go around multiple corners, also ADS cannot escape swarms when in the air with an AB on, top speed is slower than swarms 4.Lock on - You can look at the smallest part of an exposed vehicle and obtain a lock on which happens to be in the middle of the vehicle that cannot be seen- That is broken - You can also then look away from the vehicle and still fire swarms - That is broken, if you look away from the vehicle you should automatically lose lock on 5.Fire & forget - No risk all reward, 3 volleys in less than 4 seconds which fires invisible missiles which can go around mulitple corners and catch up to the fastest vehicle with ease while also causing a rocking effect on DS which means no duals with SL users since you either will miss or have that little health sticking around is pointless - Various options to fire and forget, 1 dumbfire best on ground vehicles, for air vehicles having to maintain lock would be a good example as in to guide the missiles to the target but lock on lost if anything gets in the way 6. Anti air or anti ground - You change it for one side you upset the balance of the other espc since it is a no skill no aim required weapon - The FG can do both because it requires aim, as can the PLC tho it is better as a anti ground weapon, the SL needs to be one or the other and really it would be better as it is more suited to an anti air role Anymore?
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2014.10.17 13:55:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: You are invincible to all but 3 weapons, one of which is unlikely to ever hit you unless you're stupid. I don't think you have a right to complain 1. Wrong 1a. Nova knives damage vehicles 1b. HMG can damage vehicles 1c. Most if not all light weapons can damage vehicles 1d. RE damage vehicles 1e. Proxies work 1f. Swarms require 0 aim and skill 1g. Swarms still do not render, go around multiple corners, catch upto any vehicle, can lock on to the smallest part of a vehicle if showing even tho the big box is behind a hill etc https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=177891&find=unread I think i missed some out
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2014.10.17 14:01:00 - [3] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 3.Speed - Increased if for ADS which means all ground vehicles cannot escape since they can still go around multiple corners, also ADS cannot escape swarms when in the air with an AB on, top speed is slower than swarms 4.Lock on - You can look at the smallest part of an exposed vehicle and obtain a lock on which happens to be in the middle of the vehicle that cannot be seen- That is broken - You can also then look away from the vehicle and still fire swarms - That is broken, if you look away from the vehicle you should automatically lose lock on 5.Fire & forget - No risk all reward, 3 volleys in less than 4 seconds which fires invisible missiles which can go around mulitple corners and catch up to the fastest vehicle with ease ... 6. Anti air or anti ground - You change it for one side you upset the balance of the other espc since it is a no skill no aim required weapon - The FG can do both because it requires aim, as can the PLC tho it is better as a anti ground weapon, the SL needs to be one or the other and really it would be better as it is more suited to an anti air role Please consider, that there is a point after which, adding passion or hyperbole to your argument doesn't help; it hurts your argument and your credibility. ADSs routinely outrun my proto swarms. Not always, but sometimes. Your complaints to the contrary, that ADS "cannot escape swarms... with an AB on..." is simply not true. I routinely can't get a lock on a vehicle, whether LAV, tank, DS, or ADS, unless far more than the "smallest part" is exposed from cover. Your claims to the contrary simply are not true. You make one good point. Swarms are more effective against ground vehicles than air vehicles. The solution is not to nerf the swarms, it is to buff AV grenades. To the extent this thread seeks an AV grenade buff, I support it. Nothing big, just a small 2 or 3% damage buff to AV nades, until CCP's stats suggest that the AV nades are strong enough. Maybe were already there, but in my anecdotal experience AV nades could be a little bit stronger without becoming OP. Its also possible that I just need to get better at throwing nades. 1. Passion for a playstyle is not allowed said no one ever 2. I use my experience in the game, not hyperbole if i happen to see it on a daily basis 3. Argument and credibility then rattari has none currently 4. I only every out run swarms if i move/moving when i see the 1st volley fired, most of that time the 1st volley is invisible so if i move after its too late the 3rd will always hit no matter what 5. My claims with using the laughable milita swarms says otherwise, i should not be able to get locks unless i can actually see the locking on point, same with the ability to fire when i look away from the vehicle and look at the sky instead to avoid the hill i would hit 6. Buff AV nades? No they are fine as they are, proxies are not used enough and need looking at as does the PLC
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2014.10.17 15:27:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Wait, I'm genuinely confused now. What the heck is going on? OP is altposting and trying to start fights on the forum. The two posts marked @rattati are obvious antagonistic troll posts intended to start fights. Best to let them fall off the front page 1. SL user defence force in full effect i see, if i dont like it slide it seems to be the norm 2. SL users rarely offer any insite into how it can be fixed, nothing even said on rendering issues just like from 1.0 to 1.6 3. SL users like the status quo, ask them what buff they want next it is either back to 400m lock on or the SL becomes a sidearm 4. Trying to fix glaring problems is now classed as altposting and starting fights
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2014.10.17 15:43:00 - [5] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Wait, I'm genuinely confused now. What the heck is going on? OP is altposting and trying to start fights on the forum. The two posts marked @rattati are obvious antagonistic troll posts intended to start fights. Best to let them fall off the front page 1. SL user defence force in full effect i see, if i dont like it slide it seems to be the norm 2. SL users rarely offer any insite into how it can be fixed, nothing even said on rendering issues just like from 1.0 to 1.6 3. SL users like the status quo, ask them what buff they want next it is either back to 400m lock on or the SL becomes a sidearm 4. Trying to fix glaring problems is now classed as altposting and starting fights Breakin has done a lot of good testing into ADSs and their functionality since Delta... Not so much the Swarm aspect as he just has a Dren SL, but, he tested their capabilities quite well. So shoo troll. 1. CCP should have done in house testing 1st 2. Testing in situations which do not appear in game is useless 3. Actual experience in game is valuble 4. Balancing for pubs is a very bad idea 5. Even balancing when there is still glaring errors which will alter the outcome is not a good idea ie rendering 6. The basics have to be fixed ie rendering 7. If you change one thing it is not a good idea to buff the opposite as you will get misleading results from too many variables being changed
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2014.10.18 12:36:00 - [6] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Cat Merc wrote: You are invincible to all but 3 weapons, one of which is unlikely to ever hit you unless you're stupid. I don't think you have a right to complain 1. Wrong 1a. Nova knives damage vehicles 1b. HMG can damage vehicles 1c. Most if not all light weapons can damage vehicles 1d. RE damage vehicles 1e. Proxies work 1f. Swarms require 0 aim and skill 1g. Swarms still do not render, go around multiple corners, catch upto any vehicle, can lock on to the smallest part of a vehicle if showing even tho the big box is behind a hill etc https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=177891&find=unread I think i missed some out 1 - K 1a - And are VERY likely to kill dropships, right? 1b - Umm, have you ever shot an HMG at a dropship? 1c - I don't think our definitions of "damage" match lawl 1d - Dropships? 1e - Dropships? 1f - They don't require aim, but they definitely require user skill. There is more to using a weapon than aiming. 1g - Because that's how they're supposed to be :) You expect a vehicle the size of a truck to outrun missiles smaller than a human? Did physics change 20k years in the future? 1. You asked for weapons which can damage vehicles, the list can damage a dropship no matter how unlikely it is to actually work - a to g 1f. User skill is for all weapons from a rifle to nova knifes, SL requires the very least 1g. No suprise that a skill less player supports broken swarms which offer a big advantage to the user and a big disadvantage to vehicle pilots 1h. I forgot about all 3 types of installations, 6 types of vehicle turrets, vehicle ramming from 4 different vehicles, if they land you can ram with the 5 types of ground vehicles, also MCC missile and also the null cannon too