DUST Search - A real reason to balance the rep tool lock spam

Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:

[
I will try to point out some facts, if you have such a problem with seen this objectively.

a few facts:
- Focused RT on MM Logi lvl5 is reping 150 AP/S, not 90.
- There is no limitation on how many players can rep one player, so it's 150 AP/S x 'unknown' = Immortality.
- There is no way to some how interrupt RT beam, so player that is using it have to stop for a second or two.
- There is no cool-downs timers on RT, like on Cloak or Active Scanner, so RT can run endless.
- Reping Heavies gives **** tons of WP; So this is a bit not fair compare to other Logistics suits, they bonuses and WP that can be gained thanks to them.

What else.. RT can not run out of nanites or what ever is charging it..

There are several drawbacks that should be implemented to RT, to make it not contradict with how other modules works, and at the same point makes game more challenging.
But there are also several things that have to be implemented in future to makes RT a better equipment, like indicator on how far from the target you are, and what is your optimal on tool(it should be visible for you and target), or some new variants of RT that can work on target despite that there is some obstacles on line.

I'm sure that RT will evolve in future, but it will definitely take some time and it is less likely to happen on PS3.

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Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 531	Posted - 2014.10.17 04:51:00 - [1] - Quote I can assume most if not everyone has had the match where everything is running ~~smoothly~~ as smooth as it can, but there's that 1 guy teleporting about with lag... This is because he's connecting to the least preferable server, which can happen a lot in PC matches. Sure this guys shots are delayed to the point where it's worse for him than everyone else, but with a rep tool permanently locking onto people, it becomes quite the advantage. After being downed by a laggy shotgunner 2 or 3 times in a mostly enjoyable match I decided to see what my connection to the Asian server was like. Safe to say it was terrible, my AR damage was delayed and my forge shots only hit when I managed to guess the lag and add the additional range (or the target was stationary.) So I decided to try my crappy logi medic fit... Safe to say I could dodge bullets like a friggin ghost, just weaving left and right, I even did it infront of a blaster tank for about 30 seconds before he even got my 100 or so shields down... Sure I had to mash the needle to get anyone to revive, but between that I could just run free weaving about while getting a ******** amount of wp and keeping some pretty bad players alive longer than they should have been. Using this as a base strategy for long distance PC matches, you could easily turn the tides in your favour. Hence a reason to deal with the problem before it becomes one. Short version - A laggy repper is a pain in the arse and is a good enough reason to properly "balance" the reptool and make it more fun to use.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1954	Posted - 2014.10.17 08:50:00 - [2] - Quote You never explained how the rep tool is unbalanced. All you proved with your anecdote is that lag is a major issue. It really seems like your making an argument for more dev time being spent on fixing lag related issues than anything else. More to your point though doesn't it seem flawed to balance a game based upon how it functions under the poorest play conditions? Not only could this cause all sorts of issues when there isn't a ton of lag but it also seems like development should be done based upon average latency, so that it does not cause game breaking issues for the majority of players. Now with more evil.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 531	Posted - 2014.10.18 04:52:00 - [3] - Quote & how would forcing people to chose the best times to lock with the tool 'break' the game for everyone not experiencing lag? As has been noticed the game only gets changed when something is proven OP in certain instances, like the Scr with screwy controllers that the 'average' players don't have access to, or boning the ADS despite 'average' players not being even vaguely good with it... Sure the rep tool doesn't make the user some kind of god (apart from stupid amounts of wp) but it does make whoever is being repped close to immortal against non one hit kill weapons, which is pretty much the same thing that pissed people off about ADS's/Tanks. With the only downside being that you can kill the logi first, well you're not gonna kill the lag logi by any normal means. It may not be used a lot at the moment, but it's pretty obvious a lot of corps go straight for the tryhard/easymode tactics (even in pubs a lot of the time) so don't go crying when the game is filled with them like the rep stacked blaster tanks of 1.7. Meanwhile maybe I'll chill on the Asian server farming an easy and safe 400k a match, while making the game horribly boring for the other teams... Hopefully a few people pick up on it and make their way over to the other servers.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1356	Posted - 2014.10.18 13:06:00 - [4] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: & how would forcing people to chose the best times to lock with the tool 'break' the game for everyone not experiencing lag? As has been noticed the game only gets changed when something is proven OP in certain instances, like the Scr with screwy controllers that the 'average' players don't have access to, or boning the ADS despite 'average' players not being even vaguely good with it... Sure the rep tool doesn't make the user some kind of god (apart from stupid amounts of wp) but it does make whoever is being repped close to immortal against non one hit kill weapons, which is pretty much the same thing that pissed people off about ADS's/Tanks. With the only downside being that you can kill the logi first, well you're not gonna kill the lag logi by any normal means. It may not be used a lot at the moment, but it's pretty obvious a lot of corps go straight for the tryhard/easymode tactics (even in pubs a lot of the time) so don't go crying when the game is filled with them like the rep stacked blaster tanks of 1.7. Meanwhile maybe I'll chill on the Asian server farming an easy and safe 400k a match, while making the game horribly boring for the other teams... Hopefully a few people pick up on it and make their way over to the other servers. Kill IT!!! KILL IT WITH FIRE !!! Innapropriate Irrelevence...
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1957	Posted - 2014.10.18 17:02:00 - [5] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Sure the rep tool doesn't make the user some kind of god (apart from stupid amounts of wp) but it does make whoever is being repped close to immortal against non one hit kill weapons, which is pretty much the same thing that pissed people off about ADS's/Tanks. This statement is blatantly untrue. Not only do I regularly solo kill heavies who are being repped but I don't particularly find it challenging to do so. The extra 90 hp/s that your rep tool provides pales in comparison to the 750 dps of a scrambler rifle or the 700 dps of a TAR. Massdrivers, plasma cannons, vehicles, the list of things that can kill a sentinal who is being repped with no real difficulty is huge. Heck, a well placed remote will do the job without providing any opportunity to earn wp from repping. While you are showing that you are a player who is out to make the game worse for the rest of us by exploiting lag, you are still failing to prove that the rep tool is OP. You're simply proving that CCP needs to lock people to their nearest server to prevent the kind of obnoxious and exploitative tactics that you are promoting. Now with more evil.
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 761	Posted - 2014.10.18 19:38:00 - [6] - Quote /brings Mobius Kaethis popcorn So this is where they went, I thought GD got a little quiet. Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 393	Posted - 2014.10.18 20:36:00 - [7] - Quote LOL@OP Maybe don't play on servers that aren't your region to exploit the lag? Nerf scouts. Like Oceania. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 395	Posted - 2014.10.19 03:03:00 - [8] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: (...) you are still failing to prove that the rep tool is OP. I will try to point out some facts, if you have such a problem with seen this objectively. a few facts: - Focused RT on MM Logi lvl5 is reping 150 AP/S, not 90. - There is no limitation on how many players can rep one player, so it's 150 AP/S x 'unknown' = Immortality. - There is no way to some how interrupt RT beam, so player that is using it have to stop for a second or two. - There is no cool-downs timers on RT, like on Cloak or Active Scanner, so RT can run endless. - Reping Heavies gives **** tons of WP; So this is a bit not fair compare to other Logistics suits, they bonuses and WP that can be gained thanks to them. What else.. RT can not run out of nanites or what ever is charging it.. There are several drawbacks that should be implemented to RT, to make it not contradict with how other modules works, and at the same point makes game more challenging. But there are also several things that have to be implemented in future to makes RT a better equipment, like indicator on how far from the target you are, and what is your optimal on tool(it should be visible for you and target), or some new variants of RT that can work on target despite that there is some obstacles on line. I'm sure that RT will evolve in future, but it will definitely take some time and it is less likely to happen on PS3. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 543	Posted - 2014.10.19 21:42:00 - [9] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: While you are showing that you are a player who is out to make the game worse for the rest of us by exploiting lag, you are still failing to prove that the rep tool is OP. You're simply proving that CCP needs to lock people to their nearest server to prevent the kind of obnoxious and exploitative tactics that you are promoting. Obnoxious and exploitative tactics... Like the logi train? I am purely looking to bring light to the fact that the rep tools design is broken and out of place with everything else in the game... I very rarely do easymode **, I never glitch my drop uplinks & I have never specced into flavour of the month stuff just to get easy kills. If the rep tool required more thought as to when you should use it, it would become more interesting to run with a rep tool while also creating more reason to think about using a shield heavy instead of just stacking up the armour knowing you'll get repped to hell. The only reason for abusing this is because it seems you have to 'prove' something is broken enough to get it fixed. el OPERATOR wrote:** LOL@OP Maybe don't play on servers that aren't your region to exploit the lag? Maybe don't use broken mechanics in general, but yet most people hear something is 'OP' and get straight on that train.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1961	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:27:00 - [10] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: If the rep tool required more thought as to when you should use it, it would become more interesting to run with a rep tool while also creating more reason to think about using a shield heavy instead of just stacking up the armour knowing you'll get repped to hell. I won't disagree that adding restrictions to the reptool would make it more interesting but that is an entirely separate matter. You started this thread by calling the the rep tool op under very specific circumstances, specifically high lag and we're using this as a justification to call for changes. I would argue in favor of changeling the reptool to make it more interesting not to change it based upon how it behaves when you have horrible latency. If changes for the sake of interst are your goal start a thread in FR and I will throw in my two cents. Derpty Derp wrote: The only reason for abusing this is because it seems you have to 'prove' something is broken enough to get it fixed. This kind of reasoning is part of the buff nerf problem not the solution. The devs definitely pay attention to well presented arguments with evidence. Now with more evil.

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1961	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:37:00 - [11] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: [ I will try to point out some facts, if you have such a problem with seen this objectively. a few facts: - Focused RT on MM Logi lvl5 is reping 150 AP/S, not 90. - There is no limitation on how many players can rep one player, so it's 150 AP/S x 'unknown' = Immortality. - There is no way to some how interrupt RT beam, so player that is using it have to stop for a second or two. - There is no cool-downs timers on RT, like on Cloak or Active Scanner, so RT can run endless. - Reping Heavies gives **** tons of WP; So this is a bit not fair compare to other Logistics suits, they bonuses and WP that can be gained thanks to them. What else.. RT can not run out of nanites or what ever is charging it.. There are several drawbacks that should be implemented to RT, to make it not contradict with how other modules works, and at the same point makes game more challenging. But there are also several things that have to be implemented in future to makes RT a better equipment, like indicator on how far from the target you are, and what is your optimal on tool(it should be visible for you and target), or some new variants of RT that can work on target despite that there is some obstacles on line. I'm sure that RT will evolve in future, but it will definitely take some time and it is less likely to happen on PS3. The stats you share are only for the min logi and only for a rep tool that is rarely used by anyone but a min logi. I would also like to point out that the min logi is specialized in repping and really stinks at everything else. It better be good at repping since otherwise it would never get used. As to your other points sure it has few limitations but reptools don't really cause matches to become imbalanced since they effectively remove a weapon from the game when they are in use. I have no problem with logi trains or even spider tanking (though that sadly no longer exists) since they don't drastically swing battles in the favor of the side using said tactics. I do however agre that there needs to be a tool that provides similar benefits to shield repping suits as the lack of such a tool provides a slight disincentive to shield tank a sentinel. Now with more evil.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 552	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:39:00 - [12] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: If the rep tool required more thought as to when you should use it, it would become more interesting to run with a rep tool while also creating more reason to think about using a shield heavy instead of just stacking up the armour knowing you'll get repped to hell. I won't disagree that adding restrictions to the reptool would make it more interesting but that is an entirely separate matter. You started this thread by calling the the rep tool op under very specific circumstances, specifically high lag and we're using this as a justification to call for changes. I would argue in favor of changeling the reptool to make it more interesting not to change it based upon how it behaves when you have horrible latency. If changes for the sake of interst are your goal start a thread in FR and I will throw in my two cents. Derpty Derp wrote: The only reason for abusing this is because it seems you have to 'prove' something is broken enough to get it fixed. This kind of reasoning is part of the buff nerf problem not the solution. The devs definitely pay attention to well presented arguments with evidence. Bull twoddle, Swarms got a nice speed buff because of very specific circumstances... Afterburners. An additional 'game breaking' circumstance that adds to the issue is just as valid as the permanent feature, especially when the fix is the same for both. Other issues have long been posted and ranted about & possibly ignored, therefore a different approach is better than more of the same old spam.


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