DUST Search - a simple (tm) fix

All Channels

General Discussions

a simple (tm) fix - scouts

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1089	Posted - 2014.10.15 16:36:00 - [1] - Quote the problem is their ewar and tacnet evasion even when not useing ewar moduals which allows them the luxuray of fitting more tank.. so my proposal is simple.. Raise scout scan profile, lower scan precision and scan radius to be equal to medium suits. this change would force scouts to choose if they want ehp.. or if they want OP tacnet immunity+wallhacks meaning they would have to fit more ewar moduals. so this gives them the choice of EHP or Ewar.. not BOTH. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1700	Posted - 2014.10.15 16:39:00 - [2] - Quote This is a good idea. I agree, wholeheartedly, that the real problem with scouts isn't necessarily they can evade all scans or see everyone, but rather they can do so while tanking significant HP. Your proposal would solve this rather nicely.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1089	Posted - 2014.10.15 16:41:00 - [3] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: This is a good idea. I agree, wholeheartedly, that the real problem with scouts isn't necessarily they can evade all scans or see everyone, but rather they can do so while tanking significant HP. Your proposal would solve this rather nicely. i cant believe it took me this long to figure out the problem and then the solution to the problem.. as scouts get a massive ewar bonus already so even if they used 1 damp and 1 presision they could still fit some hp.. maybe 400ish to 500ish tops instead of the 700-900 iv seen [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 102	Posted - 2014.10.15 16:48:00 - [4] - Quote It would be nice indeed. But then scouts are gonna whine about the fact that they cant "see" some assault suit that would use damps. Even if it would mean a big sacrifice for the assault suit, scouts player wont care and will only see this fact. This is how this community works, it's a great idea you just put here, but unfortunately CCP will never make it happen... Sorry for my bad english ^^
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1089	Posted - 2014.10.15 16:55:00 - [5] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: It would be nice indeed. But then scouts are gonna whine about the fact that they cant "see" some assault suit that would use damps. Even if it would mean a big sacrifice for the assault suit, scouts player wont care and will only see this fact. This is how this community works, it's a great idea you just put here, but unfortunately CCP will never make it happen... they would see them it just depends more on the race choice for the suit for precision rather then take the OP cal scout as default [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1089	Posted - 2014.10.15 16:59:00 - [6] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: It would be nice indeed. But then scouts are gonna whine about the fact that they cant "see" some assault suit that would use damps. Even if it would mean a big sacrifice for the assault suit, scouts player wont care and will only see this fact. This is how this community works, it's a great idea you just put here, but unfortunately CCP will never make it happen... i can only see gal or amarr assault useing damps and most likely only 1 damp in place of a sprint mod but with scout precision bonus and their ewar bonus + precision mod they will "see" those damped assaults still. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 104	Posted - 2014.10.15 17:01:00 - [7] - Quote I didnt think about their passive bonus indeed x) Well then it wont change ANYTHING! The only suits that will counter scouts will still be scouts, problem not solved at all^^ Sorry for my bad english ^^
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 118	Posted - 2014.10.15 17:32:00 - [8] - Quote As a scout you do not need ehp so they will remain slayers unless there offence is capped e.g. sidearms New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1093	Posted - 2014.10.15 17:34:00 - [9] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: As a scout you do not need ehp so they will remain slayers unless there offence is capped e.g. sidearms you do need some ehp or else you get wiped like bitches.. that is why i proposed my proposal about scouts.. so it still gives them the choice and options to be ehp or ewar or inbetween (but not as powerful as they currently are) [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1093	Posted - 2014.10.15 17:36:00 - [10] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: I didnt think about their passive bonus indeed x) Well then it wont change ANYTHING! The only suits that will counter scouts will still be scouts, problem not solved at all^^ scouts or gal logi with focused active scanner.. BUT the main objective was to get scouts ehp lower.. ie they sacrificed ehp for ewar.. where as atm they dotn sacrifice anything for the ewar side and because of that they can get stupid ehp (for a light/scout suit) [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 118	Posted - 2014.10.15 17:37:00 - [11] - Quote No we don't because we have cloak and better radars and even without ehp we will shotgun you in the back because it is easy or long range you with the CR because you can't hit our tiny hit boxes at range. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1053	Posted - 2014.10.15 17:37:00 - [12] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: I didnt think about their passive bonus indeed x) Well then it wont change ANYTHING! The only suits that will counter scouts will still be scouts, problem not solved at all^^ Yes because my scout never dies to hmgs, scrubby sentinels with RRs, snipers, commandos, tanks, ADSs and the occasional assault suit. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
mollerz 5562	Posted - 2014.10.15 18:31:00 - [13] - Quote This is kind of a terribad circlejerk. Not a good idea- misses the point of the game. And no- it's not worth the time to explain why to you. I'm seriously fukn serious
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 411	Posted - 2014.10.15 18:34:00 - [14] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: I didnt think about their passive bonus indeed x) Well then it wont change ANYTHING! The only suits that will counter scouts will still be scouts, problem not solved at all^^ The problem isn't whether scouts can counter each other or not. The problem is that no other class can counter them with proficiency! The assault class is.... well outclassed?! Logistics has decent eWAR if you use the mods, and honestly what is being proposed here would put scouts close to logi eWAR. If you use the mods you should be king of eWAR, but if you choose to stack armor you should be a little more susceptible to loosing to eWAR. Scouts should have more eWAR than assaults or logis, but if they don't use the mods and the assaults and logis do, then the assaults and logis should pick them up! If I put 3 complex precision mods on my gk.0, and a scout of any type wears no damp I should see him right? Well currently it is likely that I wouldn't, and those 3 precision mods will make me vulnerable in the ehp and damage output departments?! In order to afford 3 precision mods on a gk.0 I would need to have high armor with some regen making me loose the speed I already don't have on my assault?! This style of play makes me easy pickings for scouts and heavies?! It's not all about scout v scout eWAR. Assaults have to defend themselves against multiple roles, and have to be able to kill multiple roles. The same goes for heavies, logis, and commandos. Commandos are second only to the heavy in it's defense and repel capabilities! They can unleash dual light weapons like AR/shotgun on gal commando for CQC. ScR/laser on Amarr commando for mid to long range defense or attack. CR/MD or CR/swarm for minmatar commandos to dual role as assault/AoE and assault/AV. RR/sniper for caldari commando for area denial on points. Assaults are lacking in all areas while excelling at none?! You have to pick your role be it damage output, AV, or defense/ehp, and pray the enemy team has no counter for each?! Highly unlikely! Heavies have the ehp advantage, and can see the passive scans of teammates with eWAR roles. They deal massive damage, and can command a multitude of assistance from teammates. Scouts the way they are can effectively counter all of these as a class v class dominator! Loosing some eWAR when gaming ehp should be a choice they should have to make. "Anybody order chaos?"
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 230	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:11:00 - [15] - Quote any assault can fit 3 damps which forces every scout cept the amar to use 2 precision enhancers, so instead of gimping scout ewar raise medium and heavy frames base stats so it becomes a more viable way to fit. just numbers i pulled out my ass new medium stats profile, precision, range 40/45/20 new heavy stats profile, precision, range 45/50/20 quite frankly my dear i don't give a damn pew pew goes my scram rifle zap zap goes my scram pistol vizzzz goes my laser
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3822	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:18:00 - [16] - Quote That would result in scout players switching to assault and ripping people's asses with more health, and keeping their damp since they probably have Dampening at 5. Besides, our Ewar is the only thing going for us. If we show up on radar, we're dead. I don't think this fix is good enough.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1095	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:46:00 - [17] - Quote Joel II X wrote: That would result in scout players switching to assault and ripping people's asses with more health, and keeping their damp since they probably have Dampening at 5. Besides, our Ewar is the only thing going for us. If we show up on radar, we're dead. I don't think this fix is good enough. you are whining for no reason.. you get your ewar still.. and as for assaults useing damps they already do but the fact of the matter is they are slower, bigger hitboxes and easier to see regardless.. so there is no real bonus except element of suprise insted of scouts where speed and ewar is their speciality [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Magnus Amadeuss Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1166	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:48:00 - [18] - Quote Prepare for 2-3 people with 7-8 accounts to just flood your thread with hate. Fixing EWAR
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1095	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:49:00 - [19] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: any assault can fit 3 damps which forces every scout cept the amar to use 2 precision enhancers, so instead of gimping scout ewar raise medium and heavy frames base stats so it becomes a more viable way to fit. just numbers i pulled out my ass new medium stats profile, precision, range 40/45/20 new heavy stats profile, precision, range 45/50/20 you mean any suit with 3 highs.. but that isnt the case.. as gal logi with 3 precision still dosnt get enough to see a full ewar scout.. but a full ewar scout is maybe 200-300ehp which seems fair.. yet fact of the matter is no one botheres with gal logi 5+active scanner 5 unless they PC hard.. in pub and fw that most likely never happens [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4813	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:50:00 - [20] - Quote Easiest and least destructive way of the tank vs EWAR scout situation is to take away passive bonuses and transition them toward module efficacy. Unless you want to give scouts the HP of an Assault for the trouble of having the same scan profile. Which sounds to me as bad an idea as your initial suggestion. You can always tell a Millford Minja

Magnus Amadeuss Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1167	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:56:00 - [21] - Quote Joel II X wrote: That would result in scout players switching to assault and ripping people's asses with more health, and keeping their damp since they probably have Dampening at 5. Besides, our Ewar is the only thing going for us. If we show up on radar, we're dead. I don't think this fix is good enough. You mean other than speed and a tiny hitbox that glitches at high strafe speeds and as many equipment slots as the amarr logi a-1 and insane shield regen and great stamina/stamina regen and invisibility yeah... whatever would you do without EWAR superiority too....... Fixing EWAR
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1095	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:59:00 - [22] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Joel II X wrote: That would result in scout players switching to assault and ripping people's asses with more health, and keeping their damp since they probably have Dampening at 5. Besides, our Ewar is the only thing going for us. If we show up on radar, we're dead. I don't think this fix is good enough. You mean other than speed and a tiny hitbox that glitches at high strafe speeds and as many equipment slots as the amarr logi a-1 and insane shield regen and great stamina/stamina regen and invisibility yeah... whatever would you do without EWAR superiority too....... crutch useing bittervets got too used to OP scouts which have gone form flavour of the month to Flavour of the year.. which is why they are soo opposed to being nerfed back into a balanced state.. like how ADS were gods till they were de-throned and became mortals again. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1937	Posted - 2014.10.15 20:12:00 - [23] - Quote I would rather see them return to their old profile of 40dB. This means they have to fit more ewar to get the same low profile, meaning less ability to brick tank. Also makes detecting brickers that much easier. I don't want it I just need it To breath, to feel, to know I'm alive
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1095	Posted - 2014.10.15 20:16:00 - [24] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I would rather see them return to their old profile of 40dB. This means they have to fit more ewar to get the same low profile, meaning less ability to brick tank. Also makes detecting brickers that much easier. that is basically the idea i said in my OP [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3827	Posted - 2014.10.15 20:29:00 - [25] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Joel II X wrote: That would result in scout players switching to assault and ripping people's asses with more health, and keeping their damp since they probably have Dampening at 5. Besides, our Ewar is the only thing going for us. If we show up on radar, we're dead. I don't think this fix is good enough. you are whining for no reason.. you get your ewar still.. and as for assaults useing damps they already do but the fact of the matter is they are slower, bigger hitboxes and easier to see regardless.. so there is no real bonus except element of suprise insted of scouts where speed and ewar is their speciality I'm not whining, and I'm going by what you wrote in the OP. I still say what you're proposing is not very good. We had the same as assaults back pre-1.8 and there were only like 7 scout players. Not only that, but assaults could do what we could with better results since we had a much more inferior slot layout as well. Scouts are in a much better place now, even though slight tweaks are needed.
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3827	Posted - 2014.10.15 20:30:00 - [26] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Joel II X wrote: That would result in scout players switching to assault and ripping people's asses with more health, and keeping their damp since they probably have Dampening at 5. Besides, our Ewar is the only thing going for us. If we show up on radar, we're dead. I don't think this fix is good enough. You mean other than speed and a tiny hitbox that glitches at high strafe speeds and as many equipment slots as the amarr logi a-1 and insane shield regen and great stamina/stamina regen and invisibility yeah... whatever would you do without EWAR superiority too....... Lol
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18149	Posted - 2014.10.15 20:32:00 - [27] - Quote This is an absurd proposal. Essentially, nerf all the EWAR stats on scouts so that they're equal to a medium frame, except worse because they have fewer slots and therefore can use fewer modules to improve the function? An impressively bad suggestion, even for you. The forums have ruined me.
Vesperz Inner.Hell 117	Posted - 2014.10.15 20:34:00 - [28] - Quote Joel II X wrote: That would result in scout players switching to assault and ripping people's asses with more health, and keeping their damp since they probably have Dampening at 5. Besides, our Ewar is the only thing going for us. If we show up on radar, we're dead. I don't think this fix is good enough. All of this and then some. Live by honor, kill by stealth.
Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1055	Posted - 2014.10.15 20:41:00 - [29] - Quote Seems Arkena beat me to it. There'd be no reason to use an Ewar scout if the stats were knocked down to medium levels. You'd effectively turn everyone to brick tanking, and then you'd have one more thing to complain about as the OP invisible scouts with 800+ EHP continued to kill you. May I recommend the Flaylock to you, good sir? You might find it useful in preventing the scouts from abusing your six. Nova Knives are best sidearm.
X7 lion Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 324	Posted - 2014.10.15 20:45:00 - [30] - Quote rather then ruin it for the rest of us normal scouts why not make plates on scouts do the same thing, that way us non tanked skill scouts can still be scouts with out just having our class ruined because every one could see us & i dont need remind you a real scout is basically a panel of glass. Do not contribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance. being contradictory is not the same as being offensive.

Magnus Amadeuss Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1167	Posted - 2014.10.15 20:54:00 - [31] - Quote Honestly after a lot of back and forth, it isn't the profile that unbalances scouts... It is the precision and range that do it. A scout can have a permascan on a 300,000+ cubic meter area for anything over a 18dB profile shared with the rest of the squad, while cloaking/firing/sprinting/hiding/laying remotes.... That and cloaks have absolutely no drawbacks. You get invisibilty and a free non-stacking dampener Fixing EWAR
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 230	Posted - 2014.10.15 21:06:00 - [32] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: any assault can fit 3 damps which forces every scout cept the amar to use 2 precision enhancers, so instead of gimping scout ewar raise medium and heavy frames base stats so it becomes a more viable way to fit. just numbers i pulled out my ass new medium stats profile, precision, range 40/45/20 new heavy stats profile, precision, range 45/45/20 you mean any suit with 3 highs.. but that isnt the case.. as gal logi with 3 precision still dosnt get enough to see a full ewar scout.. but a full ewar scout is maybe 200-300ehp which seems fair.. yet fact of the matter is no one botheres with gal logi 5+active scanner 5 unless they PC hard.. in pub and fw that most likely never happenshell even with 1 damp a scout gets under medium+3 precision at level 5 damps are low slots, every medium at proto has at least 3 low slots. i still think buffing medium and heavy base ewar stats is the better option, because it puts it on you if you want encroach on scout capabilities the same way they can get good ehp with hp mods if they choose to do that. quite frankly my dear i don't give a damn pew pew goes my scram rifle zap zap goes my scram pistol vizzzz goes my laser
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 605	Posted - 2014.10.15 21:41:00 - [33] - Quote Just a thought from a non scout but hoping the theory is still valid. Why not do as has been suggested and bump the ewar up to Medium suit or just under medium suit levels and then give all scouts a solid proficiency bonus for dampeners (Don't know the numbers, sorry)? That way they can still get the low ewar but they have to use multiple dampeners to do it. It will force the use of dampeners in lieu of armor or other low mods. It goes back to making scouts choose between HP or ewar. If they want to get down to the ridiculously low ewar, they need to use a proto suit and fill all their slots with profile dampeners to get it down there. If the individual is going to scout and wants to be invisible, s/he will HAVE to use profile dampeners in their low slots instead of armor mods. If they want to tank, go ahead and put armor on the suit. However, they aren't going to get the ridiculously low profile anymore and will be visible by others on the tacnet. There has to be a choice. You will tank or you will be invisible. No more invisible tanks. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
DEZKA DIABLO THE FOOTCLAN 711	Posted - 2014.10.15 23:43:00 - [34] - Quote Just lower assault precision and dampening to force scouts to wear more ewar to find or hide from assault s and leave scouts as is, the fact that everyone in this thread is nerf nerf nerf instead of fix what's actually broken is why this game gets worse and worse, it aggravates me beyond belief to see how many small minded people constantly break this game with un educated ideas. DONT EVER COMPLAIN, USE CAPS LOCK OR POINT OUT WHAT BROKEN WITH OUR GAME OR WE WILL DEFINITELY BAN YOUR ASS FOR 6 MONTHS
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1343	Posted - 2014.10.16 00:12:00 - [35] - Quote I waited a seriously long time to dampen my Min Scout... Until I could stack 3 it was pointless, even 3 can be scanned ... Increasing the db. puts me back where I started.... visible... to that I think.. t(-_-t) The passive bonus? or the HP stacking.. something should be changed but a Scout suit should be easily able to avoid scanning it is the purpose of the suit... undetected kiiling.... I don't run 300hp suits to be visible on your radar Vs 1000hp+ med/hvy So tired of reading burn the witch threads .. Innapropriate Irrelevence...
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1694	Posted - 2014.10.16 00:16:00 - [36] - Quote Or Have plates and extenders raise the profile without changing the suit. Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1343	Posted - 2014.10.16 00:17:00 - [37] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Or Have plates and extenders raise the profile without changing the suit. Booooooooooooooooooooooooom Innapropriate Irrelevence...
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1095	Posted - 2014.10.16 00:18:00 - [38] - Quote No thanks i like my scout as is. Decent tank and Nice ewar Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :) Pls fix SCR CCP
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 607	Posted - 2014.10.16 00:54:00 - [39] - Quote Zindorak wrote: No thanks i like my scout as is. Decent tank and Nice ewar And that is the problems with scouts. You shouldn't get both. It should be one or the other. You can tank OR you can be invisible. The invisible tank is what needs fixing. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.