Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kincate
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 15:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
There are several advantages to building this game around non planet side combat.
1st, plenty of spots in the eve universe that could work with battles over salvage or just areas to kill each other. These areas can range in size from small to extremely large. Basically it is versatile and fits into the Eve lore.
2nd, These environments can be entirely unconnected to capsuleers or they can be directly connected
Finally, less to worry about FX wise and all the planet side stuff can be added later.
Basically using stations, asteroids bases, large wrecks, and Eve based structures (Which do not need to be actual player owned structures) for the initial environments allows you flexibility and simplicity while allowing you the freedom to add later.
Since the devs have all been murdered by the mutated Fedo which burst out of CCP Z's chest thoughts from the community?
1st Legionhare
|
Kaughst
Nyain San General Tso's Alliance
694
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 16:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
When you look at the EVE online concept of players possibly exploring derelict space stations they contend with radiation and other environmental hazards that cloned soldiers don't have to worry about....Which is kind of interesting but the bigger idea was suppose to be on things like Eve titan ships. But personally I would like to fight over a kill-sat and than pressing the red button at the last minute wiping everyone out below me.
You know you have at least thought about cow tipping. They know, and they're out to settle the score.
|
da GAND
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
932
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 16:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kind of just by looking at the gameplay they showed at fanfest it looks like they'll continue with what they had from Dust which was the combat taking place in the planets surface. It's best for then to do continue with that then get us fighting on space stations and eventually ships like Titans.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
|
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4560
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 16:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
While I agree with da GAND that the fastest route is to reproduce what they had in DUST, you made some very good points, and it is a direction I would like to see them take with new development, so +1.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
4186
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 18:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
If anything, I think planets present the best way to contribute to EVE in an optional way. It doesn't clash heavily with existing mechanics, serves a part of New Eden which was underrepresented in EVE, and opens up opportunities for new places for EVE to build upon.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13570
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 20:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kaughst wrote: When you look at the EVE online concept of players possibly exploring derelict space stations they contend with radiation and other environmental hazards that cloned soldiers don't have to worry about....Which is kind of interesting but the bigger idea was suppose to be on things like Eve titan ships. But personally I would like to fight over a kill-sat and than pressing the red button at the last minute wiping everyone out below me.
I suggested this a while back where the scenario is modified at random.
Some stations are larger than others, some have already been looted and have nothing, some are traps, etc.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
|
Kincate
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 21:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:If anything, I think planets present the best way to contribute to EVE in an optional way. It doesn't clash heavily with existing mechanics, serves a part of New Eden which was underrepresented in EVE, and opens up opportunities for new places for EVE to build upon.
Yes it also offers the option with the most complexity, especially since each planet side environment should be in some sense unique, what they have now with dust is "maps" which contain sockets they can randomly plug object into. This doesn't fit well, thousands of planets sure but apparently most of them share similar topography. Where as with space borne environments a certain amount of uniformity is expected from such a burgeoning mass produced space industry. I still maintain that even starting with what they had in dust and working from there the transition to space environments might save time over developing planetary environments as they deserve to be done.
Soraya it isn't that planets are not a good way to contribute to eve in an optional way, but neither would this clash with mechanics, I mean there are plenty of abandoned, unregistered, unexplored, places to allow fighting without conflicting with Eve. In addition to that it also offers the flexibility to go to the opposite end of the scale and integrate into Eve in a way that is far less optional (Hello Player owned Null Sec Stations). Without getting into THAT discussion I think it is the best place to START because it offers simplicity and flexibility. The core of Legion needs to be a good game I believe this is the optimal way to create that game. I know there is no guaranteed way to change the devs direction but if you and the other CPM members take the communities pulse on this subject and take it to the devs there is a chance they can make legion just that much stronger.
1st Legionhare
|
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
4188
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 21:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'm not saying I don't want to fight on space platforms, because I do, but there's also other concerns.
Like what would you do about vehicles on a space station? And while the maps could be more uniform, sure, CCP would still need more than one, so that's a whole new set of maps they need to crank out. Orbitals would be out, I assume in favor of some sort of alternative option.
There's a lot of cool unique features space-based combat could offer too (anti-grav areas or levels? Yes, please) but my personal feel is to get the game solid with boots on the ground first, and then expand out from there.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
Kincate
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 21:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I'm not saying I don't want to fight on space platforms, because I do, but there's also other concerns.
Like what would you do about vehicles on a space station? And while the maps could be more uniform, sure, CCP would still need more than one, so that's a whole new set of maps they need to crank out. Orbitals would be out, I assume in favor of some sort of alternative option.
There's a lot of cool unique features space-based combat could offer too (anti-grav areas or levels? Yes, please) but my personal feel is to get the game solid with boots on the ground first, and then expand out from there.
Yes but anything you do on the ground you can do in space, I do not know if you are an eve player or not but if you look at the design of many of the environments you could fight in could very easily accommodate vehicles (Minus dropships but even then I could see massive biodomes where i could work) and yes they would have to crank out more maps, fact is they are going to have to crank them out anyways. I also see no issue with orbitals, honestly controlling orbital would be a more realistic way of controlling a planet. We are in agreement that the game needs to be solid and then expand out but planets present a lot of issues space based environments would not.
1st Legionhare
|
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4916
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 22:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I'm not saying I don't want to fight on space platforms, because I do, but there's also other concerns.
Like what would you do about vehicles on a space station? And while the maps could be more uniform, sure, CCP would still need more than one, so that's a whole new set of maps they need to crank out. Orbitals would be out, I assume in favor of some sort of alternative option.
There's a lot of cool unique features space-based combat could offer too (anti-grav areas or levels? Yes, please) but my personal feel is to get the game solid with boots on the ground first, and then expand out from there.
In the event of space station fights you obviously wouldn't be calling in tanks, but who's to say you couldn't be in a fighter outside of the station contributing in some other manner?
Frankly that's why Legion and Valkyrie need to be one game with an infantry mode and a piloting mode, on the same map plane. They are both using Unreal already and it would simplify Valkyrie's link to EVE greatly if it piggybacked onto Legion.
That they are not the same game despite sharing the same engine is bad foresight on CCP's part. |
|
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
4189
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 22:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kincate: But where do the vehicles drop from? Where to the orbital strikes come from? Do they go straight through the hull of what's being fought on?
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
Kincate
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 23:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Kincate: But where do the vehicles drop from? Where to the orbital strikes come from? Do they go straight through the hull of what's being fought on?
Seriously? Like we cannot find some sort of creative solution to this? I can think of two right off the top of my head. For Maps large enough to support vehicles have docking ports the dropships can fly into or have what is basically a high tech 3d printer which uses nanites. It's where most of your stuff comes from anyways. Conveyor systems, or an auto drive system where the vehicle moves itself to you in a cloaked mode from a docking bay (Essentially just de-cloaking in front of you) I mean the possibilities are endless. Adding to the wonderful flexibility of the system it could have vehicles only obtainable from certain areas (maybe even capture points), or even maps meant for smaller (squad v squad) conflicts which do not allow vehicles.
As for orbitals same thing, Station security systems, that's off the top of my head. Conduit overloads can make big explosions, depressurize areas (friendly fire off on this one gents like real men), engaging auto turrets I could go on, there are plenty of Kill Point rewards you can dream up for this. Capsuleer support you say? Well if we are going that route and you want an orbital have some sort of damage control/repair effects, or instead of a physical strike have the pilot hijack the systems of the station and you get one "strike" before the system throws him out, or know I need to re-hack it? Another three minutes like the FW timer.
Anything you can do on the ground you can do from space, heck even PC can be done from space if you really had a mind to go that route (which I do not advocate), by simply saying the capture points are orbital platforms in geosynchronous orbit over a district. This is even more plausible because frankly if I really wanted to control a district I would put an orbital up with a bunch of hybrid cannons and tactical ammo. I am not saying make THAT a mechanic I am merely pointing out that ANYTHING done in planetary environments can be done in space and so much more.
Consider the skins for the inside of a station wouldn't be much different from the installations, no weather fx, no need to immediately design a system to randomly generate terrain for different planets (Which they had better do because frankly every planet having the same hills, roads, gravity, plant life, and distances between structures is low quality) ALL of that can be worked on with the time it deserves all the while allowing the team to focus on the core mechanics which are needed to make Legion not be like Dust.
1st Legionhare
|
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
4189
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 23:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
All of those things sound like the "massive amounts of new dev effort to account for" I mentioned. :) I'm not saying it's possible, I'm just saying it's not a trivial thing to suggest. Very few games offer maps that cross such a grand scope of design types that aren't like... player made maps.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
Kincate
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 23:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Now hold on I know designing the maps will take some time but the systems for utilizing and the graphics for said systems are almost entirely in place, a conduit explosion is an explosion a decloaking vehicle is a decloaking vehicle these are already there, the targeting system for strikes is already there. Yes map creating takes time, but this would take all those previous thing I mentioned off the immediate task list, I mean heck even if you used some of the eve environments which used those transparent bubbles it is not going to be textured much differently than the night sky already is.
Its true I am no game designer and yes you are right it is no trivial matter but this if done correctly does not need to make more work, or at least it should net less work overall.
I mean the whole idea it to take the textures, terrain items (Some of the buildings look like giant power cores), and current game mechanics (whatever they have) and repackage them in a way that creates less work initially.
Also see the warbarge proof of concept post.
1st Legionhare
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
9759
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 02:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Why not both? I would love to roam doing dastardly deeds on a planet one day and then battle it out inside a titan the next day.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
da GAND
Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder.
933
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 04:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Why not both? I would love to roam doing dastardly deeds on a planet one day and then battle it out inside a titan the next day.
Both sounds good, and Like I said it's best if CCP STARTS with what they had with Dust which was fighting in the planet surface and eventually get us inside EVE player + npc ships, and stations.
Boarding ships and stations is one if the best things we've been looking forward to, even back in closed beta here on the forums people were talking about it. There was even some concept art that people made showing a fight in the control room if a titan. Maybe it was only one picture that was made.... but anyways ya people have been looking forward to such things for along time.
Edit: forgot to mention firing back at EVE ships with the sky fire battery.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
|
Kincate
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
86
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 11:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
da GAND wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Why not both? I would love to roam doing dastardly deeds on a planet one day and then battle it out inside a titan the next day. Both sounds good, and Like I said it's best if CCP STARTS with what they had with Dust which was fighting in the planet surface and eventually get us inside EVE player + npc ships, and stations. Boarding ships and stations is one if the best things we've been looking forward to, even back in closed beta here on the forums people were talking about it. There was even some concept art that people made showing a fight in the control room if a titan. Maybe it was only one picture that was made.... but anyways ya people have been looking forward to such things for along time. Edit: forgot to mention firing back at EVE ships with the sky fire battery.
I suppose I stand alone in my thinking then, I mean we all agree both is the goal. I however think it would eliminate work to take what they had in Dust and apply it to space environments, because all I could see them losing time on is the actual planet based skins and maps, many of the objects, could be placed into space environments. Of course I am seeing this from a layman's perspective it just seems like most of the work they have done will already fit in versus all the work they NEED to do to do planets right.
1st Legionhare
|
da GAND
Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder.
934
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Check it from 16:56 to 22:38
The planet looks great in detail and it's been 5 months since then so no doubt it's gotten plenty better so I don't think that you'll have to wait long after Legion gets released till we get to fight in space.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
|
Kincate
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
86
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 10:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
da GAND wrote:Check it from 16:56 to 22:38 The planet looks great in detail and it's been 5 months since then so no doubt it's gotten plenty better so I don't think that you'll have to wait long after Legion gets released till we get to fight in space.
Yes it does look great but it is just one map from one type of planet and one type of tree. We want that level of quality and uniqueness on maps for hundreds (lets deal with the rest latter) of planets. Do you believe that is less work than creating station environments? Maybe it is, I do not know but I could see how it would not be.
1st Legionhare
|
da GAND
Bloodline Rebellion
936
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 20:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
No I don't think that it would be less work, but they would have to start from scratch to make the maps that would be great for fighting in stations and ships. We don't even know how many people that they have working on Legion and we don't even know about if they are making completely new maps or just heavily modifying the ones from dust. Especially with the news about the 1.9 update for Dust514.
I don't care how many times they say that Legion isn't even a real game yet. They said they were laser focused in the ps3 and look what they announced at fanfest. It's best just to not believe what their official statement about their products or soon to be products are.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
|
|
lateris ablon
Commando Perkone Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 16:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
[speculation] I think we need to dive into just how much of an MMO FPS sandbox is PL going to be? What is the size, what is the scope? We launch from an apartment that we can't leave except to join a battle which to me is limited in terms of social design in game. Same thing with Valkyrie. So in essence is it a lobby shooter like Dust? Are we going to experience the same maps over and over again? Most likely.
Personally for me, I would prefer the ability to conquer every planet in Eve and take control of stations in Null, board ships and fight for control of trade lanes. Or at least fight for control of low sec. The problem is I don't think this will happen due to the nature of designing height maps, art assets, and balance of land environments and other objects. It takes a lot of time to do it properly. As a result I think we will get a repetitive map sequence like most shooters which I can understand for this type of project. I also think that CCP Execs are way off base with expecting to reel in millions when in truth Eve games are a niche which I am proud of. Look how dedicated you all are to Dust. As a Eve pilot I respect that. But I need a bone from CCP on how this project is going. I do love Dust but I want to love PL on my PC.
ATC
|
da GAND
Bloodline Rebellion
936
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 18:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
lateris ablon wrote:[speculation] I think we need to dive into just how much of an MMO FPS sandbox is PL going to be? What is the size, what is the scope? We launch from an apartment that we can't leave except to join a battle which to me is limited in terms of social design in game. Same thing with Valkyrie. So in essence is it a lobby shooter like Dust? Are we going to experience the same maps over and over again? Most likely.
Personally for me, I would prefer the ability to conquer every planet in Eve and take control of stations in Null, board ships and fight for control of trade lanes. Or at least fight for control of low sec. The problem is I don't think this will happen due to the nature of designing height maps, art assets, and balance of land environments and other objects. It takes a lot of time to do it properly. As a result I think we will get a repetitive map sequence like most shooters which I can understand for this type of project. I also think that CCP Execs are way off base with expecting to reel in millions when in truth Eve games are a niche which I am proud of. Look how dedicated you all are to Dust. As a Eve pilot I respect that. But I need a bone from CCP on how this project is going. I do love Dust but I want to love PL on my PC.
Most here will agree with you and that's why most of us got into Dust 514, maybe for awhile it'll be repetitive maps with modifications to it and eventually we'll get maps for fighting inside ships and stations which may also be repetitive also. But at one point I think that they may be able to make so many more maps if Legion succeeds, Valkyrie succeeds and EVE (according to EVE vets on a certain podcast) gets to become a big game again.
I'd hope at first though that while the maps are repetitive for a time that we would be able to go outside of our quarters in Legion and go around in the station with other players. And even be able to transfer to other stations at a cost and the price depending on how you get there. Then eventually maybe be able to go down on the planets surface not for fighting but to make our own bases and other things in territory that your alliance and/or corp owns.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
|
Kincate
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 18:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
lateris ablon wrote: The problem is I don't think this will happen due to the nature of designing height maps, art assets, and balance of land environments and other objects. It takes a lot of time to do it properly. As a result I think we will get a repetitive map sequence like most shooters which I can understand for this type of project.
(Edit: I had a longer post with an illustration but it looked wrong so I just removed the whole damn thing)
Truthfully I think they could make randomly generated maps based on the technology they have right now.
1st Legionhare
|
Kaughst
Nyain San General Tso's Alliance
723
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 19:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kincate wrote:lateris ablon wrote: The problem is I don't think this will happen due to the nature of designing height maps, art assets, and balance of land environments and other objects. It takes a lot of time to do it properly. As a result I think we will get a repetitive map sequence like most shooters which I can understand for this type of project. (Edit: I had a longer post with an illustration but it looked wrong so I just removed the whole damn thing) Truthfully I think they could make randomly generated maps based on the technology they have right now.
They have not really made any procedurally generated maps, but they have only talked about this as a possibility in this year's Fanfest 5 months ago and that is only for terrain. Sockets are preordained locations that fit in around the terrain, but my personal opinion is that they fit in nice with the scenery.
I think it is more analogous to fighting on a Warbarge, cramped confined spaces being the template and working your way up to there still realizing that you are in a closed environment...with that in mind I think that the experiences would still need to be handcrafted. I pick a bad example but my vision is almost like how Han Solo and...others... escape the DeathStar. The battles shouldn't themepark versions that you see planetside they should be unique experiences that offer a different type of gameplay maybe floor level to level progression where teams are accomplishing different objectives and engage in sporadic fighting to loot in on the enemy team's missions.
"Why do we fight?"
"To win the war."
"Meh... Works for me."
|
lateris ablon
Commando Perkone Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 22:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kaughst wrote:Kincate wrote:lateris ablon wrote: The problem is I don't think this will happen due to the nature of designing height maps, art assets, and balance of land environments and other objects. It takes a lot of time to do it properly. As a result I think we will get a repetitive map sequence like most shooters which I can understand for this type of project. (Edit: I had a longer post with an illustration but it looked wrong so I just removed the whole damn thing) Truthfully I think they could make randomly generated maps based on the technology they have right now. They have not really made any procedurally generated maps, but they have only talked about this as a possibility in this year's Fanfest 5 months ago and that is only for terrain. Sockets are preordained locations that fit in around the terrain, but my personal opinion is that they fit in nice with the scenery. I think it is more analogous to fighting on a Warbarge, cramped confined spaces being the template and working your way up to there still realizing that you are in a closed environment...with that in mind I think that the experiences would still need to be handcrafted. I pick a bad example but my vision is almost like how Han Solo and...others... escape the DeathStar. The battles shouldn't themepark versions that you see planetside they should be unique experiences that offer a different type of gameplay maybe floor level to level progression where teams are accomplishing different objectives and engage in sporadic fighting to loot in on the enemy team's missions.
I think it is a great idea :) but I am disappointed that CCP hasn't talked about Project Legion in months. Keep up the great suggestions.
For me I am going back to work on reading up on the Unreal Engine 4 that I can get for 19.99 a month.
ATC
|
Kincate
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 12:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
lateris ablon wrote:
I think it is a great idea :) but I am disappointed that CCP hasn't talked about Project Legion in months. Keep up the great suggestions.
For me I am going back to work on reading up on the Unreal Engine 4 that I can get for 19.99 a month.
Yeah the whole community is disappointed, I realize we have no idea where they are at in this project so it could be Dust in 2009. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzVjggarRns
I would love to see the devs weigh in on this. Space based environments have the best chance of making Legion really something special. Planetary combat, especially in a Scifi setting where Space combat is so prevalent, is to complex a place to start and do well.
Devs break your silence or has CCP Rouge got some sort of weird french ball gag on you? It unhooks at the back just trust me.
1st Legionhare
|
X7 lion
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
415
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 01:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kincate wrote:There are several advantages to building this game around non planet side combat.
1st, plenty of spots in the eve universe that could work with battles over salvage or just areas to kill each other. These areas can range in size from small to extremely large. Basically it is versatile and fits into the Eve lore.
2nd, These environments can be entirely unconnected to capsuleers or they can be directly connected
Finally, less to worry about FX wise and all the planet side stuff can be added later.
Basically using stations, asteroids bases, large wrecks, and Eve based structures (Which do not need to be actual player owned structures) for the initial environments allows you flexibility and simplicity while allowing you the freedom to add later.
Since the devs have all been murdered by the mutated Fedo which burst out of CCP Z's chest thoughts from the community? This is what iv been saying since the early days. more or less
Do not contribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance.
being contradictory is not the same as being offensive.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |