DUST Search - Fixing the Rail Rifle & Combat Rifle

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

Fixing the Rail Rifle & Combat Rifle

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3661	Posted - 2014.10.16 15:53:00 - [31] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Good call. Mobius I did not -+ for the suit bonuses only weapon profiles so the numbers for the sent suits will be different the rest of the suits will still scale with the current numbers posted. I will post a correction when finished since they mirror one another I don't think it will really make that much difference, but I will do it for the ghits and siggles. The 10% laser resistance drops lasers to 108% efficiency vs caldari sentinel shields before you add a proficiency skill. So it's entirely possible it will make a difference.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 120	Posted - 2014.10.16 17:11:00 - [32] - Quote The sentinel bonuses make a great deal of difference for each sentinel, but this bonus doesn't effect any other class I used it only as an example to scale from... But woots! Sentinel info having a hard time choosing look below lol. Disparity between modifiers: Damage profile effect per suit(Max): Scales down for other racial suits Race:___________Armor:_____Shield:__Total/Differential__Sent bonus Differential Amarr Sentinel:____1140_______426_______1566 Projectile:_________+171______-63.9______+107.1__________ -63.9 Railgun:__________+114______-42.6______+71.4____________-85.2 Plasma:__________-114_______+42.6______-71.4 Laser:____________-228______+85.2______-142.8 Caldari Sentinel:___525________789_______1314 Projectile:_______+78.75_____ -118.35_____ -39.6 Railgun:_________+52.5______-78.9_______-26.4 Plasma:_________-52.5______+78.9_______+26.4________-91.95 Laser:___________-105______+157.8______+52.8________-26.1 Minmitard Sentinel:_730________608_______1338 Projectile:________+109.5_____-91.2______+18.3 Railgun:_________+73________- 60.8_____+12.2 Plasma:__________-73_______+ 60.8______-12.2________-133.6 Laser:____________-146_____+121.6______-24.4________-115.6 Gallente Sentinel:__930________522_______1452 Projectile:________+139_______-78.3______+60.7________-31.8 Railgun:_________+93________- 52.2______+40.8________-98.7 Plasma:__________-93________+52.2______-40.8 Laser:___________-186_______+104.4_____-81.6 New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 121	Posted - 2014.10.16 17:11:00 - [33] - Quote The sentinel bonuses make a great deal of difference for each sentinel, but this bonus doesn't effect any other class I used it only as an example to scale from... But woots! Sentinel info having a hard time choosing look below lol. Disparity between modifiers: Damage profile effect per suit(Max): Scales down for other racial suits Race:___________Armor:_____Shield:__Total/Differential__Sent bonus Differential Amarr Sentinel:____1140_______426_______1566 Projectile:_________+171______-63.9______+107.1__________ -63.9 Railgun:__________+114______-42.6______+71.4____________-85.2 Plasma:__________-114_______+42.6______-71.4 Laser:____________-228______+85.2______-142.8 Caldari Sentinel:___525________789_______1314 Projectile:_______+78.75_____ -118.35_____ -39.6 Railgun:_________+52.5______-78.9_______-26.4 Plasma:_________-52.5______+78.9_______+26.4________-91.95 Laser:___________-105______+157.8______+52.8________-26.1 Minmitard Sentinel:_730________608_______1338 Projectile:________+109.5_____-91.2______+18.3 Railgun:_________+73________- 60.8_____+12.2 Plasma:__________-73_______+ 60.8______-12.2________-133.6 Laser:____________-146_____+121.6______-24.4________-115.6 Gallente Sentinel:__930________522_______1452 Projectile:________+139_______-78.3______+60.7________-31.8 Railgun:_________+93________- 52.2______+40.8________-98.7 Plasma:__________-93________+52.2______-40.8 Laser:___________-186_______+104.4_____-81.6 New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Shamarskii Simon 1.U.P Capital Punishment. 1	Posted - 2014.10.16 19:20:00 - [34] - Quote Honestly, to be short... I think the rail needs a capacitor charge... As real life rails do use a capacitor. Also, any rail in dust cannot exhaust its entire clip without some drawbacks so why should the gun? I think it should have a cap charge and it recharges from the suit after you stop shooting. Exhausting it completely should put you in a recharge mode (im thinking too armored core at the moment, so maybe not lol) and you wait until you are fully charged. I hope you see what i mean right?
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1023	Posted - 2014.10.17 02:04:00 - [35] - Quote the problem with the combat rail rifle is the fire rate is way to high for the assault variant and the standard variant does more dps than a scrambler rifle. its too powerful for the role its supposed to play as the intermediaterange weapon. it should not out dps an assault rifle. rail rifle is fine. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 222	Posted - 2014.10.17 03:00:00 - [36] - Quote I think the Rail Rifle is slightly too effective in CQC. Maybe decrease the RoF a bit? The Combat Rifle is kind of ridiculous because the range it can be effective overlaps the AR and ScR too much. In many cases, CR > AR @ CQC. Often I'll just get slashed by the RoF and get almost insta-deathed if I try to engage a CR user without getting the jump on him/her. Lovin' daddy Rattati! CCP Ankou s+êTà+ bro!
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1954	Posted - 2014.10.17 06:54:00 - [37] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: the problem with the combat rail rifle is the fire rate is way to high for the assault variant and the standard variant does more dps than a scrambler rifle. its too powerful for the role its supposed to play as the intermediaterange weapon. it should not out dps an assault rifle. rail rifle is fine. 1) The combat rifle doesn't out DPS the AR. 2) The combat rifle doesn't out DPS the ScR https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174569&find=unread Now with more evil.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1102	Posted - 2014.10.17 11:52:00 - [38] - Quote Yes RR needs a nerf and you can't deny it. Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :) Pls fix SCR CCP
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3692	Posted - 2014.10.17 11:56:00 - [39] - Quote This thread needs to have more evidence of imbalance before I can get on board. Your perceptions fail to pass muster without evidence. I find each of the rigles remarkably useful. Yes I have all four rifles to proto. The only one I have issue with is the scrams overheat entirely too fast to be useful.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 122	Posted - 2014.10.17 11:59:00 - [40] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: the problem with the combat rail rifle is the fire rate is way to high for the assault variant and the standard variant does more dps than a scrambler rifle. its too powerful for the role its supposed to play as the intermediaterange weapon. it should not out dps an assault rifle. rail rifle is fine. 1) The combat rifle doesn't out DPS the AR. 2) The combat rifle doesn't out DPS the ScR https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174569&find=unread There is a difference between dps and effective dps you may have the potential to do more dps with the AR, but if you shots are not landing because of the insane dispersion it has and the ScrR has mechanics to balance it where the CR does not. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.

The Master Race Immortal Guides 154	Posted - 2014.10.17 11:59:00 - [41] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: the problem with the combat rail rifle is the fire rate is way to high for the assault variant and the standard variant does more dps than a scrambler rifle. its too powerful for the role its supposed to play as the intermediaterange weapon. it should not out dps an assault rifle. rail rifle is fine. 1) The combat rifle doesn't out DPS the AR. 2) The combat rifle doesn't out DPS the ScR https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174569&find=unread There is a difference between potential dps and effective dps you may have the potential to do more dps with the AR, but if you shots are not landing because of the insane dispersion you will not, and the ScrR has mechanics to balance it where the CR does not. I like the ScrR but we all know very well which is more effective of the two by leaps and bounds and the damage profiles make a large portion of this. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1771	Posted - 2014.10.17 14:00:00 - [42] - Quote stop nerfing **** all ready. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 190	Posted - 2014.10.18 03:23:00 - [43] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: The RR (Rail Rifle) mimics large caliber weaponry, but the mechanics meant to balance the weapon are largely ineffective even more so in the assault variant. The charge time might as well not exist it is so insignificant and the recoil is progressive so in most cases your target is dead before there is any effect. This weapons damage profile is +10/-10 for later reference. The CR (Combat Rifle) has no downfalls as the dispersion and kick are almost non existent fitting of a small caliber weapon, but the weapons profile is stronger than the RR at +15/-15 making it just as strong if not stronger weapon. A profile of something like +5/-5 or even 0/0 would be much more appropriate. The path to balance is obvious increase the RR and variants charge time 2x, make recoil static, and as for the CR reduce its profile. Real Life Marksman Approved!..lol They should make the two type of combat rifles operate differently. Assault combat rifle needs a serious cut in its range and damage per bullet. In keeping with the minmitar background, they are close range rapid damage. The burst combat rifle can have the better damage but give it a moderate burst interval so it's not something that is not spammed and taking away how the gun is intended to act. perhaps even giving it an even more serious rise up from the hip so that after the first burst shot out the player has to start compensating for the rise if they plan to press the trigger again for a second and third burst. Great post, I hope CCP looks at this information above and takes it into consideration. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Capital Punishment. 62	Posted - 2014.10.18 06:14:00 - [44] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: Increase the RR kick by 10% and give the Cal assault a 5 percent kick reduction per level. It's rediculous that the RR is the only racial rifle to perform the same on the suit it's designed for as on all other suits. Want. But that reload speed.... Lol I totally agree though, it is a kind of useless bonus and is blown out of the water when compared to the effectiveness of the Minmatar and amarr bonus' which increase their weapons killing power. A 5% kick reduction per level would be nice but their should also be a kick increase overall. With this it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring in a 'RailRifle Sharpshooter' skill.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 144	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:02:00 - [45] - Quote Since the kick on the RR is progressive it is useless all you have to do is stop firing for and instant to subvert this mechanic and with the charge so short there is no loss. In CQC and even at range the kick can be beneficial as it works as a pseudo dispersion (focused fire progressing into dispersed fire with the ability to reset it at no loss) giving the rail rifle such grand ability at range and CQC. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 154	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:02:00 - [46] - Quote Since the kick on the RR is progressive it is useless all you have to do is stop firing for and instant to subvert this mechanic and with the charge so short there is no loss. In CQC and even at range the kick can be beneficial as it works as a pseudo dispersion (focused fire progressing into dispersed fire with the ability to reset it at no loss) giving the rail rifle such grand ability at range and CQC. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Jathniel G I A N T 1202	Posted - 2014.10.21 08:49:00 - [47] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Since the kick on the RR is progressive it is useless all you have to do is stop firing for and instant to subvert this mechanic and with the charge so short there is no loss. In CQC and even at range the kick can be beneficial as it works as a pseudo dispersion (focused fire progressing into dispersed fire with the ability to reset it at no loss) giving the rail rifle such grand ability at range and CQC. Subverting that mechanic, in that manner, is something that would put it at a disadvantage. In hyper-competitive play, there is no time for this kick mechanic to 'progress' to the point of being useful. A TacAR, BreachAR, Shotgun, and CR would rip holes in you long before the kick develops a spread. The Rail Rifle is in a good spot. I destroy RR guys all the time, and I'm a TacAR lover, but it STILL dominates at range when you get the rounds you need to hit where you need them. It is nasty on the headshots. The Combat Rifle is also in a good spot after it's damage profile was properly adjusted; it really has one HELL of a time dealing with properly tanked Caldari proto suits. As it should. This thread is just a bit outdated. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3785	Posted - 2014.10.21 10:02:00 - [48] - Quote I apologize for bouncing on and off topic. The inherent problem is that alpha >DPS in CQC infantry combat. The long range alpha, short range DPS work for and when combating vehicles. There is a reason why in the modern day a shotgun and .45 caliber pistol are considered superior in CQC to any rifle. Stopping power is king because in CQC the target needs to go down RIGHT EFFING NOW! At long range bullet spam is the better option save for precision weapons such as sniper rifles. Honestly gallente plasma should be alpha weapons. Caldari weapons should be DPS because ranged combat tends to be answered by putting more shots in the sky. It's kinda like my original assessment of the heavy back in chrome. It makes no sense to put a big, heavily armored, easy target in confined areas with a suicide range weapon. The HMG should have been a long range suppression weapon to discourage approach. But because I got screamed down by the community we had to get the turn speed penalty removed so heavies could be CQC kings, a role which makes no logical sense given how the frame works. My original postulation was that it should be an open terrain fire support/suppression unit that would get ripped apart in close by light, mobile opponents. In other words Iwanted scouts to be fatsmashers. Nope. But it was the plan of the day to minimize the effectiveness if heavies at range. Now if you pop out a corner and I am looking at you, yer dead. But the way the sentinel suits work is incongruous with tye reality. But now that my exposition is done back to the topic at hand. I think that close range light weapons should be retooled for alpha. Long range retooled for DPS and precision weapons (sniper) left alone. It would make more sense to swap the stats of the AR and RR (except charge and range) with each other. Because at range you can afford to vomit ammo. In close the bads need to hit the floor NOW. Vehicles should retain alpha at range and DPS in close because the reality is you cannot balance vehicles with the same methods as you do infantry. When you do things break badly. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 151	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:32:00 - [49] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Subverting that mechanic, in that manner, is something that would put it at a disadvantage. In hyper-competitive play, there is no time for this kick mechanic to 'progress' to the point of being useful. Could you explain to me what hyper competitive game play is? I will assume it is shooting at someone without cover since this is the only time it would leave you at a disadvantage. Jathniel wrote: A TacAR, BreachAR, Shotgun, and CR would rip holes in you long before the kick develops a spread. The way you formed this statement is so flawed with so many variables I can not answer it. Jathniel wrote: The Rail Rifle is in a good spot. I destroy RR guys all the time, and I'm a TacAR lover, but it STILL dominates at range when you get the rounds you need to hit where you need them. It is nasty on the headshots. The tac ar has no dispersion in aim mode and is exploitable by turbo so it may not fit into certain points of our discussion. Jathniel wrote: This thread is just a bit outdated. The damage profile change took place last patch... I am assuming you read the thread. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 154	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:32:00 - [50] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Subverting that mechanic, in that manner, is something that would put it at a disadvantage. In hyper-competitive play, there is no time for this kick mechanic to 'progress' to the point of being useful. Could you explain to me what hyper competitive game play is? I will assume it is shooting at someone without cover since this is the only time it would leave you at a disadvantage. Jathniel wrote: A TacAR, BreachAR, Shotgun, and CR would rip holes in you long before the kick develops a spread. The way you formed this statement is so flawed with so many variables I can not answer it. Jathniel wrote: The Rail Rifle is in a good spot. I destroy RR guys all the time, and I'm a TacAR lover, but it STILL dominates at range when you get the rounds you need to hit where you need them. It is nasty on the headshots. The tac ar has no dispersion in aim mode and is exploitable by turbo so it may not fit into certain points of our discussion. Jathniel wrote: This thread is just a bit outdated. The damage profile change took place last patch... I am assuming you read the thread. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.

Jathniel G I A N T 1205	Posted - 2014.10.21 20:58:00 - [51] - Quote Can you not do that multi-quote thing? It's obnoxious. I am quite capable of referencing your responses without need for a list. Talk about being technical to a fault... You know exactly what hyper-competitive game play is in Dust. It's not a term hard to understand, nor to visualize within this discussion. Quit acting like a robot that needs to have every term defined for him. I'm not speaking of anything esoteric here. If you want to picture it as "shooting at someone without cover" go ahead, but that is by no means the "only time [the rail rifle] would leave you at a disadvantage." Nor is that the only circumstance that can fall into the category of hyper-competitive. Do you even use the gun? I will quote this however, because it made me lol. Blueprint For Murder wrote: Jathniel wrote: A TacAR, BreachAR, Shotgun, and CR would rip holes in you long before the kick develops a spread. The way you formed this statement is so flawed with so many variables I can not answer it. lol..... We're talking in the context of CQC. You spoke of the RR's progressive kick, developing a firing cone that would be useful in CQC; (clearly) this point was not made considering every possible variable in a CQC situation. So all I did was mention a handful of weapons that would make that point impractical... without considering every possible variable in a CQC situation. lol All I did was mirror you. Then you say that the tac ar has no dispersion in aim mode.... and is exploitable by turbo controllers. (When the ROF has been capped.) Nearly EVERY gun has NO dispersion when you ads. lol The exceptions being the shotgun and hmg with a couple of weapons that aren't guns. lol The TacAR still has plenty of kick. My point was that that RR is still a dominating force at range, but is at a disadvantage vs. a faster firing weapon at range like the TacAR, IF the player is accurate. What was your point? I'm calling your thread outdated, because the things you're complaining about have been fixed with the last patch. You conveniently pass over the changes and still say the weapons need fixing, when there's nothing wrong with them now. You are literally providing no evidence of imbalance. Even your 'disparity between modifiers' doesn't take the actual function and application of the weapons into account. I'm starting to think that you're trolling. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Maur'ce Brutar Merry and Hell 21	Posted - 2014.10.21 23:42:00 - [52] - Quote I can't throw numbers out there 'cause I don't know the numbers, but, speaking from the experience I have with the CR, it's pretty OP compared to some of the other weapons I've gone up against on the battlefield. But, it also comes down to picking your battles and just general skill. Not everyone is a great gunslinger, so, given even with the seemingly lack of a recoil at a maxed out CR, if you don't pick your battles, you're sure to get a beating. It can't compete in long ranges, doing best to startle most people, yet beasts in mid range, bursting heavy's down with the Number 42 meal from Burger King(speaking as a level 1 or 3 min assault) This was probably un-beneficial to the convo what so ever, but, just tossing my 2 cents in. GûêGûäGûêGûäGûêGûäGûêGûäGûê GûêGûäGûêGûêGûäGûê GûêGûäGûêGûäGûêGûäGûêGûäGûê Merry GûêGûêGûêGö+GûêGûêGûêGûêGûê GûÉGûêGûêGûêGûêGûî GûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGö+GûêGûêGûê And GûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê GûÉGûêGûêGûêGûêGûî GûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê Hell
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1132	Posted - 2014.10.22 00:08:00 - [53] - Quote It would be best if RR got a 10-30 % kick increase and caldari assault will reduce kick. Also i like the 2x to charge time Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :) Pls fix SCR CCP
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 160	Posted - 2014.10.23 00:41:00 - [54] - Quote The kick itself isn't the problem it is the progression of kick cause it does kick pretty good when allowed to, but I agree that sounds like a good assault change. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Im a wizard
The Master Race Immortal Guides 319	Posted - 2014.10.23 00:41:00 - [55] - Quote The kick itself isn't the problem it is the progression of kick cause it does kick pretty good when allowed to, but I agree that sounds like a good assault change. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5100	Posted - 2014.11.18 10:46:00 - [56] - Quote +5/-5 isn't even worth the breath it takes to discuss. My objections are well documented on the forums and bluntly every weapon should have strengths and weaknesses. Doing this would simply make the combat rifle the optimal weapon vs. All comers. No. No omniweapons. No changing the HMG (which is projectile) into a shield-devouring monstrosity. The profile on the CR is the only reason shields are currently viable. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 319	Posted - 2014.11.18 11:24:00 - [57] - Quote Projectile weapons are already the optimal weapon vs all comers despite the very minor advantage of a shield/armor tanked ck. has because no class can stack shields enough to overtake the benefits of armor or gain a relative balance (not even the ck). It isn't that shields are not being used. I can really only speak for myself, but I duel tank and I would bet most others do aswell. Minmitar also has explosive -20/+20. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc


Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.