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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2358
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Posted - 2014.10.11 04:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think the NPE could be radically improved with a few changes. IGÇÖd love to hear feedback from you guys, CPM members (especially NPE guys), and of course anyone at CCP.
NEW MILITIA FITS First, I think the new suits are a terrible addition because theyGÇÖre AUR gear, and it leads to confusion about how real money is used in the game. Remove them. This is the wrong time to hit new players up for cash (when they go to restock their fittings). Also the fits are only limited to the playerGÇÖs race. ItGÇÖs important for the new player to understand that there are racial GÇ£philosophiesGÇ¥ to combat, but they should be exposed to the other raceGÇÖs stuff as well. There is no indication when choosing a race at the beginning what the combat implications are. Exposing them to all of the races stuff will allow them to switch races early on if they prefer a different play style, before they become too heavily committed to their initial character.
I propose that new players receive several new fits (maybe 5 copies of each) that expose them to the broad cross section of weapons and equipment available in the game. These are made of Militia gear and require 0 additional SP from what they start with. As a result, they are restockable for ISK, editable and deletable. This is in addition to the existing free starter fits. Just for clarity, any new player could put these together right now (but IGÇÖm sure nearly all of them donGÇÖt realize itGÇÖs available to them). The starter fits remain infinite as always. The following is an example for a Minmatar player:
01 Frontline [STARTER FIT] 02 Medic [STARTER FIT] 03 Anti-Armor [STARTER FIT] 04 Sniper [STARTER FIT] 05 Militia Defender [HEAVY] 06 Militia Anti-Vehicle [HEAVY] 07 Militia Assassin [LIGHT] 08 Militia Repairer [SUPPORT] 09 Militia Resupplier [SUPPORT] 10 Militia Scanner [SUPPORT] 11 Militia Spawn Deployer [SUPPORT] 12 Militia Frontline [AMARR] 13 Militia Frontline [CALDARI] 14 Militia Frontline [GALLENTE]
- Suits 1-4 Remain the same as they are now
- Suits 5-7 would be based on the playerGÇÖs racial heavy and light frames
- Suits 8-11 Are all about exposing the new player to the racial specialty weapons and equipment (e.g. plasma cannon, laser rifle, uplinks etc.). They arenGÇÖt meant to be very effective in combat. They would be the same for every player.
- Suits 12-14 Are Militia fit equivalent to the other raceGÇÖs Frontline fits. The difference being these arenGÇÖt infinite and need to be restocked for ISK. The purpose is to expose the player to the other racesGÇÖ combat styles early on so they can roll a new character, if they like the other raceGÇÖs stuff better. It also gives them the opportunity to try out more stuff early on and understand what their opponents are using and the strengths/weaknesses of those fits.
IGÇÖll list the fits further down in the post.
When a player first starts playing, one of the first activities they will likely do (after messing with the controls) is to try out all of the fittings available to them. By working their way through this list, they will be exposed to nearly everything available in-game. Players will quickly understand the depth of gameplay offered and start experimenting with what they like best. This is exactly what we want them to be doing in the Academy. Some people may think this list is too long/overwhelming. IGÇÖm of the opinion that itGÇÖs about as compact as you can squeeze all of weapons equipment and racial play styles into a list of fits. I think its long enough to showcase diversity without being so huge as to be unmanageable. Good labeling should help players understand the role of each fit. I suspect most players who quit DUST early on, do so before theyGÇÖve had the chance to try out most of the stuff. I suspect most have no clue all of this militia stuff is available to them and incorrectly assume that you need to sink lots of SP into things to unlock it or need to spend real money to use those weapons and get annoyed.
Remember, when a new player loads up a free-to-play game theyGÇÖre usually very suspicious of how theyGÇÖre going to get hit up for money. Most FTP games are pretty sleazy and so the player is going into this game with expectations of sleazy business practices, This is why the new free AUR fits are such a horrible idea: you donGÇÖt want to take playerGÇÖs money because youGÇÖve confused them about how the AUR system works. I guarantee that if you surveyed people who started since Delta launched, many would answer GÇ£noGÇ¥ to the following question: GÇ£Can a new player buy a minigun without paying real money?GÇ¥ ThatGÇÖs bad design. DUST actually has a very fair system for paying CCP thatGÇÖs not pay to win. We shouldnGÇÖt mislead new players on this point.
In addition to the above fits, new players should be given 1 copy of Militia Vehicles, a LAV (they do get this one currently), a Blaster HAV, a Rail HAV and a Dropship. As with the above fits, these would require 0 additional SP from what new characters start with and be restockable for ISK. With these the purpose is to expose new players to the diversity of vehicles available and to liven up the academy battles. Like with suits, I suspect many new players donGÇÖt realize these are available to them.
(continued below)
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2358
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Posted - 2014.10.11 04:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
CHANGES TO GEAR There are a few changes that need to be made to the existing items for this to work:
First, there isnGÇÖt a militia active scanner available. We need to add this to the game for suit 11. Make it the same as the STD scanner but with a longer cooldown perhaps. Rough stats would be 42 CPU and 15 PG. I derived this by looking at the percentage difference from the STD and MIL versions of the Drop Uplink (which have similar CPU/PG at STD).
There isnGÇÖt a Militia Cloak available. I realize this is a delicate/touchy subject, but I think we should add it so suit 7 can have a cloak. It should be weak when compared to STD Cloak. Perhaps a 5 second duration, 10 second cooldown. In order to fit it, I think there should be a suit bonus to all light frames (including militia) that reduces the fitting costs of a militia cloak by something huge (like 95%). This bonus would ONLY apply to the MILITA cloak and none of the other cloak variants.
The Amarr starter frame need to have itGÇÖs slots changed. ItGÇÖs currently 2 highs 0 lows. It should be 1 High and 2 Lows. The Amarr starter fits should be reworked accordingly (1 dmg mod, 1 plate, 1 rep). Additionally the Militia Amarr Medium Frame has 2 Highs and 1 Low. This should also be changed to 1 High and 2 Lows.
All suits should get a +1 passive armor regeneration (if the suit doesnGÇÖt currently have any). This would free up low slots on a lot of starter gear to allow fits that make more sense. If I had to guess, over 90% of all player-made fits in this game have some form of armor repair. I donGÇÖt think this would break anything and would allow all players to VERY SLOWLY rep themselves. While this change would help all suits, it would help out new players the most by far.
IGÇÖd like all players to start with level 2 in Electronics and Engineering. This would significantly improve the fits listed above (especially 7-11) as many are starved for CPU/PG and canGÇÖt fill all of their slots. Furthermore those skills are a bit like the DUST equivalent of the Learning skills that were removed from EVE (since they were pretty much required and they only served to delay player fun). While I donGÇÖt think these skills need to be completely removed from the game, giving all new players 2 levels in each would help significantly and is a reasonable solution to having better starting fits and a greatly improved NPE. You could even deduct the starting SP pool to account for the cost of these.
Some of the Militia suits might need their CPU/PG buffed. As it is currently, it may still be difficult to fit out some of the suits (7-11) without missing slots even after giving all players level 2 in Electronics and Engineering.
Basic frames should get a 5%/level bonus to BASE armor and shield HPs (i.e. it wouldnGÇÖt modify additional extenders plates you added). This gives newer players more survivability (which is critical). It also allows for new players to experiment with different weapon combinations early on, as the bonuses arenGÇÖt tied to a specific weapon profile. The prices on these should also be decreased significantly.
ACADEMY MODE I probably sound like a broken record on this point but we need to have a 2nd tier academy added. This would be an optional game mode listed with the rest of the public match options and the only one checked by default upon graduating the academy. It would simply be called GÇ£AcademyGÇ¥ although you would be in a separate pool of players from the existing academy. This mode would be available until you hit a lifetime SP of X. X should be large enough that you can field a decent ADV fit and be reasonably competitive in your role against the larger public match population. X should be small enough that youGÇÖre not stomping players just entering the 2nd-tier academy, as your SP gets close to X. I think X should probably be around 5 million SP, but that could be debated/tweaked.
This is better than simply extending the existing academy for several reasons: 1. The goals of the 2 are very different. The existing Academy is a safe place to figure out the controls, the mechanics, learn what the heck a supply depot is, figure out that you canGÇÖt damage the enemy MCC, etc. To play around with the 14 fits I listed above to sample what the game has to offer. ItGÇÖs where the new player figures out what the game actually is and how it works. By contrast the proposed 2nd tier academy has a much different purpose. ItGÇÖs designed to give new players the opportunity to begin to specialize in a role, to learn the maps, master the game mechanics (like the optimal ranges of weapons), start squadding with other players, make friends, find corps, build some SP and effective fits, etc.
2. As I mentioned earlier, new players are coming into this game with negative expectations. Most F2P games are terrible, limited, and there is an underlying assumption that if its free, then it must not be good enough for the developer to charge for it. The duration of the academy was reduced at one point based on real data. I assume that many new players thought the academy was all there was to the game. We should be sure to expose them to the rest of the game modes early on so they can see there is more depth to DUST than just the Academy.
3. However, GÇ£throwing them to the wolvesGÇ¥ upon graduation is a terrible experience and is likely the biggest culprit for DUSTGÇÖs inability to increase the player base. Having a GÇ£safe havenGÇ¥ thatGÇÖs optional is the best solution to this problem. Academy graduates can see there is more depth to the game, participate in regular pubs, FW or even PC (unlikely but not impossible), but will always have a place to go thatGÇÖs free of stomping while theyGÇÖre building up their core stats.
(continued below)
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2358
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Posted - 2014.10.11 04:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
4. It will help establish a more accurate Mu score for the player, which should help with team balancing (and hopefully matchmaking at some point).
This may not be possible with a hotfix (I really hope it is though). If not, it should be a top priority for a 1.9 patch. Improving the NPE would help grow the player population and would allow for better matchmaking, more revenue, and a better Legion launch. In short, itGÇÖs the most important thing we need to work on. It might even warrant reaching out to game review sites (or YouTubers like Angry Joe) asking for a second look at the game and doing some minor marketing promotions.
NEW PLAYER CHANNEL All new players should be added to a new in-game chat channel GÇ£Rookie HelpGÇ¥. This channel could be policed by volunteers approved by CCP with rules against scamming and such. These players would be a DUST equivalent to the ISD in EVE. This exists in EVE and would be a big help for helping answer new DUST playersGÇÖ questions.
FITS *****These fits would vary by the playerGÇÖs selected race (i.e. youGÇÖd only get your raceGÇÖs Defender, Heavy Anti-Vehicle, and Assassin fits):
05 Militia Defender [HEAVY]
Amar Version: Militia Amarr Heavy Frame Militia Shield Extender Militia Armor Repairer Militia Heavy Machine Gun Militia Scrambler Pistol
Caldari Version: Militia Caldari Heavy Frame Militia Shield Extender Militia Armor Repairer Militia Heavy Machine Gun Militia Bolt Pistol
Gallente Version: Militia Gallente Heavy Frame Militia Shield Extender Militia Armor Repairer Militia Heavy Machine Gun Militia Ion Pistol
Minmatar Version: Militia Minmatar Heavy Frame Militia Shield Extender Militia Armor Repairer Militia Heavy Machine Gun Militia Flaylock
06 Militia Anti-Vehicle [HEAVY]
Amar Version: Militia Amarr Heavy Frame Militia Heavy Damage Modifier Militia Armor Repairer Militia Forge Gun Militia Submachine Gun
Caldari Version: Militia Caldari Heavy Frame Militia Heavy Damage Modifier Militia Armor Repairer Militia Forge Gun Militia Submachine Gun
Gallente Version: Militia Gallente Heavy Frame Militia Heavy Damage Modifier Militia Armor Repairer Militia Forge Gun Militia Submachine Gun
Minmatar Version: Militia Minmatar Heavy Frame Militia Heavy Damage Modifier Militia Armor Repairer Militia Forge Gun Militia Submachine Gun
07 Militia Assassin [LIGHT]
Amar Version: Militia Amarr Light Frame Militia Precision Enhancer Militia Range Amplifier Militia Profile Dampener Basic CPU Upgrade Militia Shotgun Militia Nova Knive Militia Cloak**
Caldari Version: Militia Caldari Light Frame Militia Precision Enhancer Militia Shield Extender Militia Shield Extender Basic CPU Upgrade Militia Shotgun Militia Nova Knive Militia Cloak**
Gallente Version: Militia Gallente Light Frame Militia Precision Enhancer Militia Range Amplifier Militia Profile Dampener Basic CPU Upgrade Shotgun Nova Knive Militia Cloak**
Minmatar Version: Militia Minmatar Light Frame Precision Enhancer Shield Extender Basic CPU Upgrade Basic CPU Upgrade Shotgun Nova Knife Militia Cloak**
*****These would be the same for all players:
08 Militia Repairer [SUPPORT] Militia Minmatar Medium Frame Militia Shield Extender Militia Shield Extender Militia Shield Recharger Militia Mass Driver Militia Submachine Gun Militia Repair Tool
09 Militia Resupplier [SUPPORT] Militia Caldari Medium Frame Militia Precision Enhancer Militia Shield Extender Militia Shield Regulator Militia Rail Rifle Militia Magsec Militia Locus Grenade Militia Nanohive
10 Militia Scanner [SUPPORT] (This fit is starved for CPU) Militia Gallente Medium Frame Militia Armor Repairer Basic CPU Upgrade Basic CPU Upgrade Militia Plasma Cannon Militia Submachine Gun Militia Active Scanner**
11 Militia Spawn Deployer [SUPPORT] Militia Amarr Medium Frame Militia Light Damage Modifier Basic PG Upgrade (Ideally an extra plate here if the slots got switched around and I think weGÇÖd need a bit more fitting somehow, perhaps by a small reduction in PG/CPU of Militia Uplinks, or by going to Electronics/Engineering 2) Militia Laser Rifle Militia Submachine Gun Militia Drop Uplinks
**These modules donGÇÖt exist in game yet.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2376
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Posted - 2014.10.11 23:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Terry Webber wrote:I like your thoughts on this subject, Vell0cet. But I'm still kind of iffy about the bonus only affecting the militia cloak. It seems like it would give the equipment too much of an advantage. Everything else is great though. You may well be right. I find it best to post things as a set of heuristics and see how others can work out the details to arrive at those principles.
So for the Militia cloak:
1. It should be fitable on a 0 SP light frame with a reasonable MIL load out such as the ones I made in the number 7 fits. 2. It must be SEVERELY limited in one or several ways 3. It shouldn't be so limited that it's completely pointless 4. It shouldn't be something we start seeing fit all over the place on Assaults, Logis and Commandos 5. It can't wreck gameplay for everyone. 6. It shouldn't provide any dampening. 7. It should introduce the cloaking mechanics to the new player, but give her a reason to want to invest to the role. In other words it should be a beginning, not a destination.
My take on solving this was to have very high CPU/PG requirements, very limited usability, but not completely useless (short duration much longer cool down) and a frame bonus that allowed it to be fit off the bat to all light frames, without making those frames OP with higher tiered cloaks. There could be better ways to approach this. I'm open to any and all suggestions.
This is one area I struggled with and would welcome feedback on how to make it work. I do think letting players know there are cloaks from the very first battle is important. It should significantly improve new player retention, so it's worth the hassle of figuring out how to do it right.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2376
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Posted - 2014.10.12 03:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:The first thing I wanted to say here was that the provision of AUR suits to new players was primarily motivated by an intention to give them some more powerful suits that they could use right out of the gate. This means AUR gear for the lower requirements. I want to highlight that to my knowledge, that decision was not intentionally related to trying to sell gear. I like the idea of giving them that option, since we want to convey the notion that you can have more powerful fits available.
That being said, I totally see your concern. Messaging needs to be clear that gear can be bought for both ISK and AUR. I am not averse to introducing people to AUR early, so they know it's an option, but any notion you have to buy the higher quality suits with AUR only would be a very bad message to convey. I'll bounce that topic around with folks. First let me start by thanking you for taking the time to provide some great feedback. I can appreciate this point of view, but I have serious concerns the way this AUR gear is presented is confusing to new players. I do a agree with your point that we should make new players aware of the more powerful AUR gear option. Perhaps one good solution is to remove them from the initial lineup and then give them as rewards for completing the tutorial. This communicates that they're special "prize" items.
Quote:I am a bit hesitant to heavily unleash vehicles on Academy players, but the idea of preproviding some militia vehicles is not a bad idea. The value of the vehicles is that new players can understand right away that they have access to these from the get-go. It makes them aware that vehicles are in DUST, and gives them an opportunity to play around with them. The Academy is the perfect place to crash dropships, shoot your HAV in vain at the enemy MCC, etc. It's a playground to see all of the toys, sample what's available, and ultimately decide if DUST has enough content to bother playing another match, reading a wiki on the web, joining a corp, or just delete it and free up some hard drive space. Your first launch experience is absolutely critical for selling the game to the player, and they should be able to easily access what's available to them without fumbling through menu trees on their first match.
Quote:On the militia cloak topic, I am extremely hesitant to suggest something like that, unless it was done like a Cov Ops cloak in EVE, where there's a suit bonus on that particular suit offering like 99% reduction of CPU use of cloak modules, so that the respective cloak fitting is hilariously high, and hence only works on that suit. That solution would work fine for me. I posted a bit about this a couple posts up. It's admittedly a touchy subject and it could create a ton of problems if done incorrectly. I'm glad to hear you're hesitant, because it would be reckless not to be. I do think the pros outweigh the cons though.
Quote:I am worried about the notion of the Academy option you suggest for thinning out the queues further. Not a bad idea, but more queues equals less people in each, which can make matchmaking harder. I see merits though. While you do have access to the data to know how this would actually affect queues, I think this is an ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL game mode for the health of this game. I think it would radically improve new player retention by giving them a place to avoid stomping.
Just to make sure it's clear, this would only be 1 additional game mode: "Academy" NOT "Academy - Domination," "Academy - Skirmish," and "Academy - Ambush." Having 3 would be crazy and ruin queues. Remember that only a limited amount of the current player base is eligible for this so most of the player base shouldn't be affected. My gut says this option would RADICALLY improve new player retention and player numbers should begin to grow over time as a result which should help with the queues. Let me put it this way, I think it's so important that it would even be worth removing Skirmish game modes from pubs (you could still play skirmish in FW and PC) to make it possible if that's what it would take to have reasonable queues (hopefully not of course).
Do you know if this is possible to add in a hotfix, given the technical limitations? Could you look into it? I'd really appreciate it.
Quote:The Rookie Help channel thing is something we've definitely talked about before. I want to see it happen. There might be some sort of issue with the capacity of such a channel an absolutely murdering the chat system. I think there is a reason we're split amongst many stations across New Eden. I also, of course, support a DUST ISD. Yep, it's not a new idea. Your point about overwhelming the chat system is something I hadn't considered, and is a very valid concern. Perhaps this could be solved by distributing the help channels into one for each race (or possibly bloodline if it comes to that). e.g. "Rookie Help Amarr," "Rookie Help Caldari," etc.
Do you have any thoughts on the fits I posted?
Thanks again for taking the time to respond. o7
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2376
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Posted - 2014.10.12 04:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Do you know if this is possible to add in a hotfix, given the technical limitations? Could you look into it? I'd really appreciate it. I think not. In like 99% of cases, if it requires any sort of visible UI... like a checkbox... it's probably a patch thing. Vell0cet wrote:Thanks again for taking the time to respond. o7 Most people seem to agree I am bad at fitting things. So I try to leave those details to players better at it. :D I wasn't so concerned with the details of each particular fit, more so with the overall idea of the fits I listed, the intent behind them.
Here's my big concern with the NPE. DUST is like walking into an old store with a sign that doesn't really explain what it is. You've never heard of it before, never seen an ad, but it was free so you walk inside to see what it's all about. Currently when you walk in for the first time all you see is a few fits. There is tons of awesome stuff in the back room, and you're allowed to walk in there to check it out, but many people probably walk in see the empty shelves and walk out without ever realizing how much stuff is available. If your a business consultant, the first thing you'd tell the store owner is: "You've got tons of great stuff, put it on the shelves!"
As for the Academy mode, I thought someone at CCP (maybe even CCP Rouge) once said that new game modes were still on the table as a possibility. If memory serves, this was in one of the sessions at fanfest when they were discussing what would/wouldn't be possible to hotfix. I realize that re-designing the UI would require a client patch, but it could be coded in such a way that the Battle Finder View reads a list of available modes from a database and creates the UI for each item programmatically (i.e. the checkbox and match type label).
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2383
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Posted - 2014.10.12 15:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Great points all.
On the point of a chat channel for rookies Soraya is correct that it would melt the voice chat server, hence the splitting up of dust players over several systems so even local can function. It is something that CCP want to do however.
The AUR fits were added to give early access to more powerful suits, not as way to entice players into spending real money asap. That said, they have highlighted that there is something called AUR costing real money to buy, which believe it or a lot of new players had no awareness of before.
I don't think anyone is going to begrudge CCP making money on the game as it has a direct correlation with how likely a 1.9 will happen. First, let me thank you for taking the time to read through my wall of text and post your well-considered feedback. That's a shame about the technical limitations on the chat channel. I'm glad to see you guys are working on it, but if a chat channel creates lag or otherwise negatively impacts the gameplay performance of the new player, then it simply has to be kicked to the curb--I don't think you'll hear anyone disagree with that point.
With regards to begrudging CCP for making money, I completely agree with you. It's critical to the future of DUST, whether we ever see a 1.9 and ultimately if Legion gets the red or green light. I just think the way it's been implemented is really confusing. To return to my (admittedly strained) store analogy, it's like walking into the store and seeing a shiny minigun on the shelf and thinking "WOAH! I want THAT" and the store owner stops your fun and says, "that's a premium weapon." Sure there are ones that aren't premium ones that you could use in the back room which are almost as good and you could buy, but I'm not going to tell you about it.
As I replied to Soraya Xel, I think the right balance is to have the militia fits listed, and introduce the AUR suits as a reward for completing the tutorial. This communicates the right signals to the new player about AUR content. I know increasing revenue is critical, and I completely support CCP's efforts in this regard, but I think the existing mechanism is doing it badly. The goal should be to sell them on the game first, so they become invested/committed to DUST first, before hitting them up for cash.
Think of the experience of the player who is confused about how AUR works. He uses the AUR heavy fit, loves it, and quickly burns through the few provided copies. He goes to restock and it tells him he doesn't have enough AUR. He goes to restock AUR and it hits him up for a credit card. Grudgingly he shells out a few bucks to buy it, thinking he's unlocked it forever, only to find out after burning through that supply that he has to keep paying more. Now he gets frustrated, feels like he's being cheated and walks away.
I would rather try to capture this guy as a long term customer who wants to buy boosters every month for the next 10 years, that's a much better payout than a quick cash-grab up front. You give him the militia HMG up front, the premium version later and let him decide if the improved performance is worth shelling out cash for. I'm not saying there is malicious intent with the way it was done, but it's going to FEEL malicious to the new player who is already entering the game with the expectation of sleazy F2P practices.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2383
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Posted - 2014.10.12 15:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:There is nothing wrong with the suits and the ideas you've presented in regard to introducing players to the complexities offered to them in the game. My concern however is that too many suit options may potentially baffle new players and may even put them off.
Fitting is a subtle art and the nuanced differences in gameplay that each of your exampled fits would provide are something that only a veteran player might notice.
New players I feel, benefit more from a smaller number of fits, with much clearer differences between them. The more 'in between' fittings for lack of a better term, are something a better in-game NPE could point out. And the game could also remind them that they have three slots per account, so creating a different race character in one of them would provide access to the different weapons each race uses.
As someone with a background in UX/UI and programming I fully share your concerns. In design you want to offer people few choices and slowly expose them to stuff over time. Ideally all of these fits would've been introduced in a story-based fully-interactive gameplay tutorial with scripted content (like HALO or Portal). That will never happen in DUST (It should in Legion though!!!). This is sort of a dirty hacky alternative. I think it's better to perhaps overwhelm than to underwhelm in this case.
I tried to keep the list as compact as possible while not excluding weapons or suit sizes. Every one has a purpose. I have to completely (and respectfully) disagree with your point that only a veteran would notice the difference in fits. Nearly all of the new ones have a unique weapon/equipment:
5: Heavy frame HMG 6. Heavy frame Forge 7. Light frame, Shotgun, Knives, cloak 8. Mass Driver, repair tool 9. Nanohives, Magec 10. Plasma Cannon, Scanner 11. Laser Rifle, Uplinks 12-14. Other raceGÇÖs frontline gear.
Those arenGÇÖt nuanced differences that only a vet would notice (everyone would notice a different primary weapon). The only suit thatGÇÖs questionable is #9. The Caldari Support role is difficult to cram into the pattern because itGÇÖs 2 GÇ£specialty weaponsGÇ¥ are the sniper rifle and the swarm launcher. Both are already included on starter fits, so theyGÇÖre redundant. The nice thing about including it though is the labeling makes it clear what nanohives are for, and it allows them to try the Magsec. If one suit had to go #9 would be it though.
As for reminding them to roll other characters, this is a bad idea for a couple of reasons. The first is that the first launch experience (of any software product) is a bit like a first date. The player isnGÇÖt sure what to expect and likely doesnGÇÖt want to work very hard to see whatGÇÖs available. You donGÇÖt want to force them to make a lot of commitments early on. Of all players who quit after only a couple matches, how many have made multiple characters? ThatGÇÖs something only CCP/CPM could know (and I donGÇÖt expect an answer due to NDA) but itGÇÖs worth thinking about/looking into. Secondly, there are only 3 character slots and 4 races. ItGÇÖs not hard to do that math to realize weGÇÖre coming up short. Exposing them to other races stuff is valuable because it allows them to switch gears early on, if they decide they like another raceGÇÖs stuff better, and finally it allows them to understand the strengths/weaknesses/limitations of their enemyGÇÖs fits. ThatGÇÖs a big part of becoming proficient in DUST.
Quote:We're still collecting data from the changes that Delta provided and a lot of that data is likely to impact on further tweaks to the NPE. Some will be hotfix-able, others will require a 1.9 but the points you've raised are something we should uptake on board when discussing those tweaks with CCP. Again, thank you for taking the time to write your well-reasoned response. In the absence of a real tutorial, I think itGÇÖs better to perhaps (slightly) overwhelm new players with a broad spectrum of fits than to confuse and underwhelm them like the current system does. I know youGÇÖre in a uniquely great position to understand the mindset of the new player, although you are seeing a pre-selected pool of players in DUST University who are the type to engage, and research new corps and seek out your corp (i.e. the type of player who would make 2 extra characters to try out the racial stuff). IGÇÖm sure the vast majority of players never make it that far. I watch a lot of YouTube videos of first time DUST players (kind of a weird/sick fascination in UI/UX) and I see many of them confused by this stuff. I usually post suggestions in the comments suggesting they try out militia stuff, and have even been scolded back that they donGÇÖt have the SP to use it. I also usually link them to DUST UniversityGÇÖs GÇ£how to joinGÇ¥ section on your wiki. Thanks for your hard work o7.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2389
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Posted - 2014.10.14 15:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Anyone else have feedback?
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2394
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Posted - 2014.10.16 02:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
No other thoughts?
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2399
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Posted - 2014.10.17 06:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cross, thanks so much for your excellent feedback. Regarding the Mk II Special Issue Starter Suit, my thinking has evolved since the first post based on a lot of good feedback. I think the best way to do this would be to have these given as rewards for completing the tutorial. If not possible to hotfix, Maken ToschGÇÖs suggestion of using the reward assignment UI at the character selection screen is probably the next best option, accompanied by an automatically generated mail. This shouldnGÇÖt be issued on the very first login however, because that would just be confusing. In the mail, It should say something like:
GÇ£Welcome to New Eden, Merc. As a reward for completing the tutorial, weGÇÖre awarding you 5 free copies of XXX and XXX. These suits can be restocked with Aurum. Aurum gear allows you to access higher level gear than you currently have the skills to use. You can buy gear with equivalent stats using ISK without spending real money, but you will need to have the skill points to use that gear.GÇ¥ (Obviously this could be better worded, but you get the idea.)
So after the 1.9 announcement, I think this opens up some interesting possibilities for the Academy Mode. Even if they donGÇÖt implement it in 1.9 (they arenGÇÖt ready, undecided about the idea, worried about queue times, etc.), if they can add code such that they can add/delete game modes via hotfixes in the future then this would create the opportunity for these changes to come at a time when thereGÇÖs more time to focus on it. This shouldnGÇÖt be hard to code by the way: the client reads the list of game modes off the server and programmatically displays the corresponding checkbox and localized label text for each one in the battle finder view.
HereGÇÖs some GÇ£homeworkGÇ¥ that maybe you guys can look into to inform your internal discussions (I donGÇÖt expect the answers to be made public). Hopefully CCP Rattati can provide these for you guys.
1. Of all players who quit DUST (excluding those who have transferred ISKGÇöi.e. ISK farmers) before completing reaching X lifetime WPs, What percent have made additional characters of other races? What percent have made fits that include other racesGÇÖ gear? X being some reasonable cutoff for new players. My instinct tells me that this will be very low, and is good evidence as to why we should have racial diversity in the MIL fits proposed, but IGÇÖll let the data speak for itself.
2. How many active players are below 5 million SP (call this A)? Subtract A from the total active players to get an estimate of the size of pool of active players would be if we had an academy mode. Next do a conversion from active players to average concurrent users. Use this to determine the estimated average concurrent users available for pubs if we had an Academy (call this B). We have a GÇ£ramp upGÇ¥ after downtime of users. Find the times during the post-downtime ramp up, when the number of concurrent users = B. How long are the queue times during this period? That should give you a rough estimation of how long queues would be if we had an Academy mode.
Let me give you an example with fictional data. LetGÇÖs say there are 45,000 active players, and 5,000 of them are under 5 million SP. So the total pool of active players is 40,000 excluding Academy Players, or rough 89% of the player base. Now letGÇÖs assume the average concurrent players is 3000. 89% of this is 2670. Next we find the times of the day when the concurrent players = 2670, say itGÇÖs 11AM on the East coast. What are the average queue times at 11 AM? That would tell you (very roughly) how a second tier academy mode would affect queue times overall.
Anyways, IGÇÖm really excited for 1.9. Most of this should be hot fixable, so itGÇÖs not critical for 1.9. It sounds like the academy mode would require a client patch, so I really hope you guys can get this in for 1.9. If not, please fight to get client updated so we can at least add game modes in the future via hotfix. Thanks again for your thoughtful response.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION
2478
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Posted - 2014.11.07 17:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:There's such a thing as too many options. You can't throw too many things at a newbie at one time. Having too many starter fits may cause stress.
I say change the sniper into a light frame, and anti-armor into a heavy. This way, you have the all three available frames, and not too many options available. However, included in your assets are 10 of each other militia weapon, so when a player gets told to create a new fit, they may create a heavy with a HMG, instead of the default FG, or a light frame with a shotgun instead of a sniper.
Also, new players have to be be given information. I don't see any stats that say a Scrambler Rifle is semi-auto, +20/-20, long range rifle. It just gives me the damage, and ammo capacity, along with the seize time and all that. Sure, you can press info, but the mechanics are mixed in with "boring, useless lore" according to the new player.
Also, when creating a new character, it should tell you the combat philosophies of each race.
The Gallente pride themselves in regeneration technology, the Caldari have the most high-tech shielding systems, the Amarr are walking armor fortresses, and what the Minmatar lack in armor, more than make up for in intuition and speed. Something like that.
I couldn't really read much because my eyes are tired, but I'll certainly give it another go to provide better feedback o7 I agree that there is such a thing as too many options. In an ideal world, the new player would start with a generic Concord suit and get to try all of the weapons and equipment in a full gameplay tutorial, before picking a race, so they can make an informed choice. As it is now, this is a much better alternative given what we have available.
The list is about as small as we can get it and still expose them to nearly everything, and I think that's a more important goal than simplicity.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION
2553
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Posted - 2014.11.15 20:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
sir RAVEN WING wrote:Must say that I love 98% or so of this, but I do have a small problem that is 'will these fits change once full racial parity is introduced should it be introduced?' +1 Vell0cet, you have the most wonderful ideas! I don't think anything should ever be set in stone. As we get more stuff, some of these could easily change.
Best PvE idea ever!
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