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Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
1123
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Posted - 2014.10.05 06:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please for the love of god represent all 4 damage types in Legion, along with appropriate resistance mods. I mean the entire archetype is already present in Eve so all you have to do is follow it. EM, Therm, Explosive, Kinetic.
No more of the armor vs shields garbage.
The one thing that makes dust stand out is the variety of fittings, don't dumb it down.
Fixing swarms
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Kincate
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
78
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Posted - 2014.10.05 10:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Please for the love of god represent all 4 damage types in Legion, along with appropriate resistance mods. I mean the entire archetype is already present in Eve so all you have to do is follow it. EM, Therm, Explosive, Kinetic.
No more of the armor vs shields garbage.
The one thing that makes dust stand out is the variety of fittings, don't dumb it down.
I agree the system works well in Eve, no reason it shouldn't work well here to. Keep the effectiveness or lack there of vs vehicles though I remeber the days of strafe killing tanks with assault rifles.
1st Legionhare
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
2172
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Posted - 2014.10.06 22:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kincate wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Please for the love of god represent all 4 damage types in Legion, along with appropriate resistance mods. I mean the entire archetype is already present in Eve so all you have to do is follow it. EM, Therm, Explosive, Kinetic.
No more of the armor vs shields garbage.
The one thing that makes dust stand out is the variety of fittings, don't dumb it down. I agree the system works well in Eve, no reason it shouldn't work well here to. Keep the effectiveness or lack there of vs vehicles though I remeber the days of strafe killing tanks with assault rifles. I too agree with keeping the Eve Damage Types consistent in Legion.
However, IMHO, Small Arms should still be able to inflict damage on Vehicles though vastly less than Heavy Weaponry (more a reference to "does it do AV damage" and less to "Light, Heavy, Sidearm").
The Universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive
So it is, so it's always been....
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
9669
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Posted - 2014.10.07 00:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't see a problem with this as long as we are at least given some means of carrying various types of ammo. Let's also not forget that switching out ammo types should be fluid rather than clumsy. Considering this will be on a PC instead of a console, I can imagine it will be as simple as pressing a hotkey.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Fizzer XCIV
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
423
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Posted - 2014.10.08 09:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
It won't work as well as it does in EVE. I'm telling you guys this right now. However, I welcome CCP to do it, if only to show you guys that it won't work first hand.
Having weapons with upward of a 300% damage disparity between tank types, wouldn't work in an FPS. The game would stagnate into what you have fitted, and not the player skill you bring to the field. When FPSs work that way, they aren't fun.
Any shield suit that encounters a Laser weapon would be guaranteed to lose if their weapons didn't directly counter their enemy's tank. This destroys any room for reactive counterplay.
The player vs player encounters would become binary. Either you are guaranteed to win, or lose. Depending on your damage type and tank type. It would suck they fun out of the actual gameplay.
Might just be my personal opinion, but I want FPS skills to matter more in an FPS than fitting skills. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
9694
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Posted - 2014.10.08 17:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:It won't work as well as it does in EVE. I'm telling you guys this right now. However, I welcome CCP to do it, if only to show you guys that it won't work first hand. Having weapons with upward of a 300% damage disparity between tank types, wouldn't work in an FPS. The game would stagnate into what you have fitted, and not the player skill you bring to the field. When FPSs work that way, they aren't fun. Any shield suit that encounters a Laser weapon would be guaranteed to lose if their weapons didn't directly counter their enemy's tank. This destroys any room for reactive counterplay. The player vs player encounters would become binary. Either you are guaranteed to win, or lose. Depending on your damage type and tank type. It would suck they fun out of the actual gameplay. Might just be my personal opinion, but I want FPS skills to matter more in an FPS than fitting skills.
How are you so sure that this won't work well in a FPS setting if it's hardly ever been done before? I doubt World of Tanks would compare since their damage types are strictly armor oriented.
And please, don't be like those people who respond with comments like...
"Game companies haven't done it yet because they know it won't work."
And to that I would respond with a comment like...
"Then how did they know it won't work if no one has done it yet?"
Also, games like Halo are already binary in nature. If you have the first move advantage, you win. If you don't, you lose. Also, just because you believe in your opinion doesn't make it true.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
4137
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Posted - 2014.10.08 23:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maybe for vehicles but infantry is fine imho
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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Fizzer XCIV
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
435
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Posted - 2014.10.09 01:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote: Also, games like Halo are already binary in nature. If you have the first move advantage, you win. If you don't, you lose. Also, just because you believe in your opinion doesn't make it true.
Yes, games like Halo are binary, but it is still a skill based binary. You aren't guaranteed a kill unless you get the drop on someone. But really, do you even want Legion to play like Halo? Do you really want to play a game where you might be guaranteed to lose a 1v1 because that person has a weapon that counters your choice of HP? Even in games like Halo, countering ambushes and first mover advantage is built in.
And yes, my opinion isn't truth, and I never said it was. However my opinion, and to a much larger extent, the overall opinion of the player base, matters. A lot. And I don't think I would be wrong to say that the overall opinion of the player base is that skill should be more important than fitting choice in an FPS.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
9698
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Posted - 2014.10.09 01:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Maybe for vehicles but infantry is fine imho
Perhaps that would be a good compromise.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
9698
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Posted - 2014.10.09 01:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Maken Tosch wrote: Also, games like Halo are already binary in nature. If you have the first move advantage, you win. If you don't, you lose. Also, just because you believe in your opinion doesn't make it true.
Yes, games like Halo are binary, but it is still a skill based binary. You aren't guaranteed a kill unless you get the drop on someone. But really, do you even want Legion to play like Halo? Do you really want to play a game where you might be guaranteed to lose a 1v1 because that person has a weapon that counters your choice of HP? Even in games like Halo, countering ambushes and first mover advantage is built in. And yes, my opinion isn't truth, and I never said it was. However my opinion, and to a much larger extent, the overall opinion of the player base, matters. A lot. And I don't think I would be wrong to say that the overall opinion of the player base is that skill should be more important than fitting choice in an FPS.
You are correct in almost everything, but I wouldn't be so sure about that last statement. Remember this: you speak for yourself and only for yourself unless you happen to be a member of the CPM who I elected.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Fizzer XCIV
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
436
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Posted - 2014.10.09 01:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:Maken Tosch wrote: Also, games like Halo are already binary in nature. If you have the first move advantage, you win. If you don't, you lose. Also, just because you believe in your opinion doesn't make it true.
Yes, games like Halo are binary, but it is still a skill based binary. You aren't guaranteed a kill unless you get the drop on someone. But really, do you even want Legion to play like Halo? Do you really want to play a game where you might be guaranteed to lose a 1v1 because that person has a weapon that counters your choice of HP? Even in games like Halo, countering ambushes and first mover advantage is built in. And yes, my opinion isn't truth, and I never said it was. However my opinion, and to a much larger extent, the overall opinion of the player base, matters. A lot. And I don't think I would be wrong to say that the overall opinion of the player base is that skill should be more important than fitting choice in an FPS. You are correct in almost everything, but I wouldn't be so sure about that last statement. Remember this: you speak for yourself and only for yourself unless you happen to be a member of the CPM who I elected.
It's just my observation. It's not an absolute statement, but i would bet money on it being the case. I've seen enough people whining about "no-skill crutches" and "ez-mode suits/weapons" to make a fairly firm assessment that the player base in general values player skill more than player fitting choice. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
9698
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Posted - 2014.10.09 01:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:Maken Tosch wrote: Also, games like Halo are already binary in nature. If you have the first move advantage, you win. If you don't, you lose. Also, just because you believe in your opinion doesn't make it true.
Yes, games like Halo are binary, but it is still a skill based binary. You aren't guaranteed a kill unless you get the drop on someone. But really, do you even want Legion to play like Halo? Do you really want to play a game where you might be guaranteed to lose a 1v1 because that person has a weapon that counters your choice of HP? Even in games like Halo, countering ambushes and first mover advantage is built in. And yes, my opinion isn't truth, and I never said it was. However my opinion, and to a much larger extent, the overall opinion of the player base, matters. A lot. And I don't think I would be wrong to say that the overall opinion of the player base is that skill should be more important than fitting choice in an FPS. You are correct in almost everything, but I wouldn't be so sure about that last statement. Remember this: you speak for yourself and only for yourself unless you happen to be a member of the CPM who I elected. It's just my observation. It's not an absolute statement, but i would bet money on it being the case. I've seen enough people whining about "no-skill crutches" and "ez-mode suits/weapons" to make a fairly firm assessment that the player base in general values player skill more than player fitting choice.
Well, in my opinion, it should be a balance between the two. No absolute of one thing over another.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13427
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Posted - 2014.10.09 03:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
You can't do it Magnus. These consumerbase for Legion and Dust 514 doesn't want a game set in New Eden. They don't want a game that is tricky, about tactically fitting for the right circumstances.
It doesn't matter.......New Eden is not for consolers, they don't and won't appreciate it.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
1134
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Posted - 2014.10.09 04:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:You can't do it Magnus. These consumerbase for Legion and Dust 514 doesn't want a game set in New Eden. They don't want a game that is tricky, about tactically fitting for the right circumstances.
It doesn't matter.......New Eden is not for consolers, they don't and won't appreciate it.
Did CCP Z or Rouge steal your account while I was gone?
Fixing EWAR
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Fizzer XCIV
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
437
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Posted - 2014.10.09 10:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:You can't do it Magnus. These consumerbase for Legion and Dust 514 doesn't want a game set in New Eden. They don't want a game that is tricky, about tactically fitting for the right circumstances.
It doesn't matter.......New Eden is not for consolers, they don't and won't appreciate it.
I can and do appreciate the balance that EVE has, because it works well for the mechanics that the game has been built around. Its a great game.
But, that doesn't mean I want (Dust/Legion/Any FPS) to be balanced like that. They aren't even close to the same genre of games, and many of the rules that work in one place would feel horribly out of place in the other. It would be like trying to force the rules of American Football onto Football. Sure, it could be done, but it probably wouldn't make for a fun game. At all.
Imagine if some of the mechanics from FPSs were implemented in EVE. Stuff like sticky cover-systems, slower movement speeds when aiming, and even simple manual aiming for that matter. It could be done, but that doesn't mean it should be done and mechanics like that would be poorly received and detrimental to the core gameplay of EVE.
There are just too many differences in the fundamental gameplay of the two games/genres to balance them both in the same way, and have them remain to be fun. Borrowing similarities in order to make the games feel like they are part of the same world is fine, but it can be very easy to go too far.
Tl;dr Spaceship balance does not constitute for shooter balance, and trying to force it will end up with a messy and unfun game. Balance the game like an FPS, because that's what it is.
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Kincate
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
78
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Posted - 2014.10.09 10:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
The fitting meta game and tactical game play are the things that would stand this game apart. Particularly the damage types are something which will give the game the depth it needs, I play Dust but the fact is I could just as easily play another game. Hell if my computer was not broke and could run it better I would play PS2 instead. Why? Because it at least has some of the qualities I expected from Dust.
1st Legionhare
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13431
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Posted - 2014.10.10 00:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:True Adamance wrote:You can't do it Magnus. These consumerbase for Legion and Dust 514 doesn't want a game set in New Eden. They don't want a game that is tricky, about tactically fitting for the right circumstances.
It doesn't matter.......New Eden is not for consolers, they don't and won't appreciate it. I can and do appreciate the balance that EVE has, because it works well for the mechanics that the game has been built around. Its a great game. But, that doesn't mean I want (Dust/Legion/Any FPS) to be balanced like that. They aren't even close to the same genre of games, and many of the rules that work in one place would feel horribly out of place in the other. It would be like trying to force the rules of American Football onto Football. Sure, it could be done, but it probably wouldn't make for a fun game. At all. Imagine if some of the mechanics from FPSs were implemented in EVE. Stuff like sticky cover-systems, slower movement speeds when aiming, and even simple manual aiming for that matter. It could be done, but that doesn't mean it should be done and mechanics like that would be poorly received and detrimental to the core gameplay of EVE. There are just too many differences in the fundamental gameplay of the two games/genres to balance them both in the same way, and have them remain to be fun. Borrowing similarities in order to make the games feel like they are part of the same world is fine, but it can be very easy to go too far. Tl;dr Spaceship balance does not constitute for shooter balance, and trying to force it will end up with a messy and unfun game. Balance the game like an FPS, because that's what it is.
However the representation of penetrative power against shields and armour by various technologies does.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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