DUST Search - SMG and breach smg

Apothecary Za'ki wrote:

Eruditus 920 wrote:

Apothecary Za'ki wrote:

so far with the delta fixes and changes im happy but one thing still bothers me about SMG's we never really use them up to their max range so the dmg per shot vs ROF is the issue

normal (350dps) 21.00 dmg @ 1000rpm 80 clip
breach (348.83 dps) 30.00 dmg @ 697.67 rpm 72 clip

aside from the nearly exact DPS the differences (to me) seem apparent that breach smg is still not worth useing as aim assist seems to work better with the fact that more lead down field = more chances to hit... meaning the low rof on breach just dosnt work to that reasoning..

what do you people think? is the breach still not in a state where one may wish to use it more then the standard?

Edit.
my personal skill is not the issue in question but rather the way aim assist seems to work better with higher ROF on weapons.

Pharmacist Za'ki, thanks for creating this thread as I too have been curious about this since Delta.

For the record I currently have prof 4 and sharpshooter 4 in SMG. Like it on my MinAss.

Previously I used the Assault variant but not anymore. When it comes to nerfs and buffs it's all or nothing with CCP, isn't it?

I digress. Aim assist is a myth. I never notice it. Yes I have it turned on but I never let go of the sticks when firing and just "let it take over" so I don't notice it. Whatever, not important.

I have been using the breach variants almost exclusively since Delta and even with the reduced clip I find it more deadly. I can sustain fire longer, and as someone already pointed out, I have engaged and killed two baddies without relaoding. I never did that before.

If I remember correctly the range on the standard is 44m and the breach 42m so the breach has a slightly shorter range but it's negligible.

tl:dr: I like the breach SMG now that my aSMG was gutted.

thank you for the feedback. do you hipfire or ADS more?
as i think ads auto aim may have been toned down on some guns definitely feels that way since delta with my CR..

but i have notised my sights sometimes following the enemy a little if they run past the dot/middle but its only slightly

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Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 936	Posted - 2014.10.03 16:26:00 - [1] - Quote so far with the delta fixes and changes im happy but one thing still bothers me about SMG's we never really use them up to their max range so the dmg per shot vs ROF is the issue normal (350dps) 21.00 dmg @ 1000rpm 80 clip breach (348.83 dps) 30.00 dmg @ 697.67 rpm 72 clip aside from the nearly exact DPS the differences (to me) seem apparent that breach smg is still not worth useing as aim assist seems to work better with the fact that more lead down field = more chances to hit... meaning the low rof on breach just dosnt work to that reasoning.. what do you people think? is the breach still not in a state where one may wish to use it more then the standard? [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1865	Posted - 2014.10.03 16:33:00 - [2] - Quote I think that aim assist is a crime. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1003	Posted - 2014.10.03 16:35:00 - [3] - Quote If you can aim the breach smg works amazing. If you must spray and pray then well...you suck. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 936	Posted - 2014.10.03 16:46:00 - [4] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: If you can aim the breach smg works amazing. If you must spray and pray then well...you suck. most smg related engagments are spray and prey as most of the time it would be against a straifing scout and you run out of your primary and switch to secondary to try finish them but basically.. normal smg 3 bullets vs breach is 2 bullets (occording to the ROF's) so more ROF = better chance for aim assist and that is probably why the CR and ScR were rather dominant in the days of old before their nerfs [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 95	Posted - 2014.10.03 17:10:00 - [5] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: If you can aim the breach smg works amazing. If you must spray and pray then well...you suck. most smg related engagments are spray and prey as most of the time it would be against a straifing scout and you run out of your primary and switch to secondary to try finish them but basically.. normal smg 3 bullets vs breach is 2 bullets (occording to the ROF's) so more ROF = better chance for aim assist and that is probably why the CR and ScR were rather dominant in the days of old before their nerfs so you argument is you lack of aiming skill? well then, how about you l2p?
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 936	Posted - 2014.10.03 17:19:00 - [6] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: If you can aim the breach smg works amazing. If you must spray and pray then well...you suck. most smg related engagments are spray and prey as most of the time it would be against a straifing scout and you run out of your primary and switch to secondary to try finish them but basically.. normal smg 3 bullets vs breach is 2 bullets (occording to the ROF's) so more ROF = better chance for aim assist and that is probably why the CR and ScR were rather dominant in the days of old before their nerfs so you argument is you lack of aiming skill? well then, how about you l2p? no that is not my argument at all im just trying to raise a point that despite both guns being near identical on dps.. the fact of the matter remains that the "normal" varient will work better due to how aim assist works thus meaning the breach is still the redheaded stepchild of the weapon systems. as for my personal skill with aiming id say im about average to above average with some slumps when i have not "warmed up" [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17060	Posted - 2014.10.03 17:25:00 - [7] - Quote breach SMGs have a tighter cone of sustained fire making it more of a controlled jackhammer than bullet hose. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Assault Rifles =// Unlocked
Black SlaverX Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 200	Posted - 2014.10.03 17:33:00 - [8] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: I think that aim assist is a crime. So is mouse/KB on a console game. Get over it. Watch your back because I might be there.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 936	Posted - 2014.10.03 17:34:00 - [9] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: breach SMGs have a tighter cone of sustained fire making it more of a controlled jackhammer than bullet hose. is that with or without sharpshooter because i cant really tell the difference as i like to aim down sights on SMGs and would need to test it on one of my scrub alts without sharpshooter on SMGs to tell the difference.. and were you talking about hipfire or a.d.s. ? but that being said.. shouldnt the breach have more range then the normal smg if it is supposed to be more focused? my own oppinion would be... SMG middle ground Breach longer range more dmg per shot tight spread. Assault shorter range , more dps more spread to be less effective over range. but currently smg is the best for dps/lead down field (more chance to trigger aim assist) and clip size breach is "meh" because of how aim assist works Assault is less dps but only SLIGHTLY longer range for more fitting requirements (higher then even advanced CR but utter crap in comparison) [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1600	Posted - 2014.10.03 17:43:00 - [10] - Quote After the hotfix I ended up switching all my fits with the regular SMG over to the breach SMG. Just feels better; though the muzzle flash still makes me feel like I'm getting ready to have a seizure.even with a lower RoF. We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17062	Posted - 2014.10.03 17:59:00 - [11] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: breach SMGs have a tighter cone of sustained fire making it more of a controlled jackhammer than bullet hose. is that with or without sharpshooter because i cant really tell the difference as i like to aim down sights on SMGs and would need to test it on one of my scrub alts without sharpshooter on SMGs to tell the difference.. and were you talking about hipfire or a.d.s. ? but that being said.. shouldnt the breach have more range then the normal smg if it is supposed to be more focused? my own oppinion would be... SMG middle ground Breach longer range more dmg per shot tight spread. Assault shorter range , more dps more spread to be less effective over range. but currently smg is the best for dps/lead down field (more chance to trigger aim assist) and clip size breach is "meh" because of how aim assist works Assault is less dps but only SLIGHTLY longer range for more fitting requirements (higher then even advanced CR but utter crap in comparison) I only have llv 2 sharpshooter and that's how it feels. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Assault Rifles =// Unlocked
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1509	Posted - 2014.10.03 18:07:00 - [12] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: If you can aim the breach smg works amazing. If you must spray and pray then well...you suck. Have to agree with this. Since Delta, I've been rekt by some STD Breach SMGs. **** comes out of nowhere... but not like the Bolt Pistol, obviously. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
gauntlet44 LbowDeep Heaven84 Devils General Tso's Alliance 134	Posted - 2014.10.03 18:16:00 - [13] - Quote the breach smg and the breach assault (plasma) rifle are on all my fits except assault. even before HFDelta those two have always been my favorite now those two weapons are even better also play as strangeland stranger, larlac theest, gauntlett5487, and balacs sixkin
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 132	Posted - 2014.10.03 19:34:00 - [14] - Quote Adv ACR is better all around than ASMG. Better damage and range as well as less fitting requirements. That just don't make no since. Should be easier to fit a side arm... The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 936	Posted - 2014.10.03 19:36:00 - [15] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: After the hotfix I ended up switching all my fits with the regular SMG over to the breach SMG. Just feels better; though the muzzle flash still makes me feel like I'm getting ready to have a seizure.even with a lower RoF. yeah i hate muzzle flash on the wall sin dark areas its a lawsuit waiting to happen [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 936	Posted - 2014.10.03 19:38:00 - [16] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: Adv ACR is better all around than ASMG. Better damage and range as well as less fitting requirements. That just don't make no since. Should be easier to fit a side arm... i know.. with the enrf to ASMG they needed to lower its requirments too since it is not a light weapon "LITE" anymore [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 379	Posted - 2014.10.03 20:09:00 - [17] - Quote The breach is fine. It has substantially more damage per magazine, allowing multiple kills per mag, something the standard would be hard pressed to do. It also operates at a slightly longer range iirc.
Eruditus 920 Prodigy Ops 519	Posted - 2014.10.03 22:49:00 - [18] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: so far with the delta fixes and changes im happy but one thing still bothers me about SMG's we never really use them up to their max range so the dmg per shot vs ROF is the issue normal (350dps) 21.00 dmg @ 1000rpm 80 clip breach (348.83 dps) 30.00 dmg @ 697.67 rpm 72 clip aside from the nearly exact DPS the differences (to me) seem apparent that breach smg is still not worth useing as aim assist seems to work better with the fact that more lead down field = more chances to hit... meaning the low rof on breach just dosnt work to that reasoning.. what do you people think? is the breach still not in a state where one may wish to use it more then the standard? Edit. my personal skill is not the issue in question but rather the way aim assist seems to work better with higher ROF on weapons. Pharmacist Za'ki, thanks for creating this thread as I too have been curious about this since Delta. For the record I currently have prof 4 and sharpshooter 4 in SMG. Like it on my MinAss. Previously I used the Assault variant but not anymore. When it comes to nerfs and buffs it's all or nothing with CCP, isn't it? I digress. Aim assist is a myth. I never notice it. Yes I have it turned on but I never let go of the sticks when firing and just "let it take over" so I don't notice it. Whatever, not important. I have been using the breach variants almost exclusively since Delta and even with the reduced clip I find it more deadly. I can sustain fire longer, and as someone already pointed out, I have engaged and killed two baddies without relaoding. I never did that before. If I remember correctly the range on the standard is 44m and the breach 42m so the breach has a slightly shorter range but it's negligible. tl:dr: I like the breach SMG now that my aSMG was gutted. Wisdom is what you gain after you need it.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 936	Posted - 2014.10.03 23:01:00 - [19] - Quote Eruditus 920 wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: so far with the delta fixes and changes im happy but one thing still bothers me about SMG's we never really use them up to their max range so the dmg per shot vs ROF is the issue normal (350dps) 21.00 dmg @ 1000rpm 80 clip breach (348.83 dps) 30.00 dmg @ 697.67 rpm 72 clip aside from the nearly exact DPS the differences (to me) seem apparent that breach smg is still not worth useing as aim assist seems to work better with the fact that more lead down field = more chances to hit... meaning the low rof on breach just dosnt work to that reasoning.. what do you people think? is the breach still not in a state where one may wish to use it more then the standard? Edit. my personal skill is not the issue in question but rather the way aim assist seems to work better with higher ROF on weapons. Pharmacist Za'ki, thanks for creating this thread as I too have been curious about this since Delta. For the record I currently have prof 4 and sharpshooter 4 in SMG. Like it on my MinAss. Previously I used the Assault variant but not anymore. When it comes to nerfs and buffs it's all or nothing with CCP, isn't it? I digress. Aim assist is a myth. I never notice it. Yes I have it turned on but I never let go of the sticks when firing and just "let it take over" so I don't notice it. Whatever, not important. I have been using the breach variants almost exclusively since Delta and even with the reduced clip I find it more deadly. I can sustain fire longer, and as someone already pointed out, I have engaged and killed two baddies without relaoding. I never did that before. If I remember correctly the range on the standard is 44m and the breach 42m so the breach has a slightly shorter range but it's negligible. tl:dr: I like the breach SMG now that my aSMG was gutted. thank you for the feedback. do you hipfire or ADS more? as i think ads auto aim may have been toned down on some guns definitely feels that way since delta with my CR.. but i have notised my sights sometimes following the enemy a little if they run past the dot/middle but its only slightly [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 372	Posted - 2014.10.03 23:04:00 - [20] - Quote SMG's are allways the weapon of choice if you need to finish a guy off without the need of precise aiming. Well spray in pray is quite a accurate discription for it. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!

hfderrtgvcd 614	Posted - 2014.10.03 23:13:00 - [21] - Quote The breach is amazing. It has insanely accurate hipfire and can sustain fire for much longer than the others. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Eruditus 920 Prodigy Ops 520	Posted - 2014.10.03 23:20:00 - [22] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Eruditus 920 wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: so far with the delta fixes and changes im happy but one thing still bothers me about SMG's we never really use them up to their max range so the dmg per shot vs ROF is the issue normal (350dps) 21.00 dmg @ 1000rpm 80 clip breach (348.83 dps) 30.00 dmg @ 697.67 rpm 72 clip aside from the nearly exact DPS the differences (to me) seem apparent that breach smg is still not worth useing as aim assist seems to work better with the fact that more lead down field = more chances to hit... meaning the low rof on breach just dosnt work to that reasoning.. what do you people think? is the breach still not in a state where one may wish to use it more then the standard? Edit. my personal skill is not the issue in question but rather the way aim assist seems to work better with higher ROF on weapons. Pharmacist Za'ki, thanks for creating this thread as I too have been curious about this since Delta. For the record I currently have prof 4 and sharpshooter 4 in SMG. Like it on my MinAss. Previously I used the Assault variant but not anymore. When it comes to nerfs and buffs it's all or nothing with CCP, isn't it? I digress. Aim assist is a myth. I never notice it. Yes I have it turned on but I never let go of the sticks when firing and just "let it take over" so I don't notice it. Whatever, not important. I have been using the breach variants almost exclusively since Delta and even with the reduced clip I find it more deadly. I can sustain fire longer, and as someone already pointed out, I have engaged and killed two baddies without relaoding. I never did that before. If I remember correctly the range on the standard is 44m and the breach 42m so the breach has a slightly shorter range but it's negligible. tl:dr: I like the breach SMG now that my aSMG was gutted. thank you for the feedback. do you hipfire or ADS more? as i think ads auto aim may have been toned down on some guns definitely feels that way since delta with my CR.. but i have notised my sights sometimes following the enemy a little if they run past the dot/middle but its only slightly I definitely hip fire more with the SMG because of the reduced range effectiveness, as with all sidearms. My sharpshooter helps with that. Taking it to 5 in the next two weeks. If I am aiming down sights with it I suck because it is usually always at range. As a result, damage is crap and it's harder to kill the red fugger. I have my x/y sensitivity turned way down via ADS, around 15 I believe without checking. It's close to that anyway. Wisdom is what you gain after you need it.


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