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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3343
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Posted - 2014.10.02 10:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
No the poison pill is not rattati, the devs a corp or some random idiot.
Now that we have that out of the way, let's discuss the primary obstacle to weapon balancing, vehicle balancing, and dropsuit balancing.
This poison pill began in beta, and it was callled "Gun Game."
Gun Game is one of the reasons why we have such small maps, short weapon ranges and claustrophobic firefights. It's why vehicles have no role and why the gallente AR is largely irrelevant.
First, we must ask: "What is Gun Game?"
Gun Game is an abuse of movement mechanics that allows players to avoid the hit detection system entirely by exploiting the lack of dropsuit inertia. You can see it in scouts and assaults who flicker back and forth while rapily whipping their gun reticles wildly to hit the other wobble strafer. Siince there is no inertia or acceleration time you can completely avoid damage often and are nore or less guaranteed a safer, risk-averse shooting experience.
Let's call this what it is: it is the FPS equivalent of playing a video game like mortal kombat or street fighter by being a button masher instead of learning how to actually play.
This FPS button mashing toxin is the cause of a lot of our current woes. It is a mechanical exploit that rewards schizophrenic movement and tactical ignorance.
AND WE BROUGHT IT IN.
In closed beta one of the big complaints was that ranges were too long. There were constant cries from the "top players" to reduce ranges, constantly based on the argument that somehow being able to rip someone down at 250-300m with an assault rifle or laser rifle rewards "low skill" players.
Translation: the figure-8 strafe used to avoid hit detection is worthless past 60m. Dispersion guarantees you're going to get hit despite your movement idiocy.
But this button mashing BS was the barometer of skill, not tactics, marksmanship, or ability to move so you wouldn't get clipped by the jerk with the viziam.
"Long ranges reward low-skill players."
And we wonder why DUST gets derided by the FPS community at large.
Because the ranges are so short, the maps are claustrophobic. Because tge maps are claustrophobic vehicles cannot maneuver and escape. Because there can be no long range engagements, transportation vehicles are not utilized or necessary.
Tank offensive capacity iscontinually nerfed because infantry have spitball ranges and they get farmed because there is nowhere to run and hide in time.
Its why the sniper rifle is often in the redline. Assault rifles should be able to suppress snipers.
But redline. If we want to remove the redline then weapons all need at MINIMUM four times their optimal and effective ranges. New spawn locations need to be added so you can't be pinned in two spots and farmed.
Rang is what makes machineguns into suppression weapons. We cannot balance the HMG for suppression because the ranges are too short. Did you know CCP successfully mimics the firing profile of real machineguns in the HMG? We can't balance it right because all of the ranges are too short.
Every weapon should have 4x the range and 1/2 the kick/dispersion. CQC should be lethal. Anything inside 150m is CQC.
All of DUST being so close means gallente weapons are inferior because you CANNOT GET IN RANGE WITH COVER AND SMART MOVEMENT. It's all CQC.
Because "long range rewards low-skill players."
Tech limitations aside, this is the kind of idiocy that players ask for that makes a subpar gaming experience.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3345
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Posted - 2014.10.02 11:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lets say the rail rifle goes to 240m and the AR jumps to 180 (roughly 3x ranges) we have maps that are more open ground.
Caldari meta tactics should be fixed firing positions with open fields of fire. Gallente should be cover to cover movement to contact. But increased ranges opens entire swathes of map that are covered by redline. A lot of the maps we play in are subsockets of larger map areas. There is a lot of map we don't see.
There is a lot of space to play in and here's a thought... If we had the full 4 kilometer square maps and radars with base RANGES of 120-200m, larger caps on vehicles for transport make vehicles more meaningful and able to maneuver.
Longer ranges would mean that if you spot the thale you can drive him away or kill him without having to get "danger close." And allows for larger OB bombardments instead of pinpoint frigate strikes. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3360
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
In EVE there is no cover, no hills. You cannot hide. Only tank incoming fire.
Unevn terrain and obstacles will define engagements rather than twitchy shooting. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3360
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:In EVE there is no cover, no hills. You cannot hide. Only tank incoming fire.
Unevn terrain and obstacles will define engagements rather than twitchy shooting. We have afterburners and microwarpdrives, along with the slower tracking of long range weapons, specially against faster targets. So although there is no cover, the faster you move in against a longer ranged ship the harder it is for them to hit you and equally the easier it is for you to close the distance.
Not the same thing at all. Gunnery in EVE is automated.
DUST firefights are subject to human error so it's less math equation.
But for argument let's say we give caldari significant range. You are shooting at a galssault at 240m. He sprints to cover 30m away. You have 5 seconds to track, aim and kill him.
You fail. 20 seconds later his armor is recovered. He sprints again while his buddies lay blaster fire at you. You're out of their optimal but in effective so whenever you pop out you risk fire.
He gains another 30m.
He now has 10m to his optimal.
Suddenly your range advantage is less insurmountable unless you can kill him in his sprint window. Once he is in his optimal your caldari suit is in imminent danger. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3369
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Define short-med-long by optimal
150-200 = short range.
201-350 = midrange
350-500 = long
Sniper = extreme ( use a jeep to get closer) |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3377
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Posted - 2014.10.03 16:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Define short-med-long by optimal
150-200 = short range.
201-350 = midrange
350-500 = long
Sniper = extreme ( use a jeep to get closer) You're talking about heaven ! I'd really love to roam around with a squad in a dropship through those kinds of distances. I believe the original Dust made with their original game engine was supposed to be that "vast".
The carbon engine will still melt bleeding edge computers. It's got a few more tech iterations befor it becomes viable. |
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