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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
2879
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Posted - 2014.09.29 12:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here some points i would like to discuss.
Slot progression
I would give logi the same slot progression of assault. at std and adv level.
Stats
This need more attention, i don't know what CCP thinks about logi, are they a class between scout and assaults or a between assault and heavies?
The stats are contradictory, compared to assaults they have: less HP and slightly better EW and more equipments, this seem to put them next to scout class, but they also have worst biotics related stats (stamina, speed, etc.) and on this, the logi are next to heavy class.
I think there should be a choice to be made: increase their biotics stats and bring logi between scouts and assaults or increase HP, decrease EW and keep current speed to bring logi between assaults and heavies (i prefer the first).
I'm not the most indicated person to talk about shield related stats, i guess someone will, but i think shield stat should reflect the choice CCP will made on the previous argument.
Sidearm only
Have only one weapon it's already a great disadvantage in combat, even if current side arms are a viable option (you still need to have 2 of them), light weapons are more reliable and you can't depend on other players for everything.
So, my opinion is NO, logi should keep their light weapon slot.
Sidearm slot
This will hurt Amarr sensibility, but when all the other class can hold 2 weapons, why have you chosen a logi?
There are 16 other kind of suit which can use 2 weapons, pick one of them.
People play as a logi when they want to support their team with more equipments, not with more guns.
I think this is all, if you have some other key points feel free to answer and i will insert them in the OP.
Discuss.
PSN: ogamega
"Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items"
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
3dge of D4rkness.
3
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Posted - 2014.09.29 13:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Personally I think that Logistics are mostly fine as they are.
Slower than Assaults and less resilient: they are carrying more, bulkier equipment and have had their capacitor divert power to those and to support systems like EWar and to their bonuses. They focus on logistical improvement rather than frontline capability, which to me sounds perfectly fine - they can be fitted to run like an Assault but that has it's own drawbacks (slower, less HP, no sidearm and no bonuses for that role) so really, what is wrong with it being as is?
Frankly, it doesn't need to be 'between' two of the other types because it is a medium frame not a hybrid medium/light or medium/heavy.
Sidearm only/Sidearm slot I agree with you here. As you say, there are four other roles with various bonuses that use weapons better than the Logistics role, and that is how it should be. Running a Logi suit? Well, you're not the best at front line operations - it's down to your personal ability in the game at that point because other classes can fit combat suits much more effectively/easily.
If I had to suggest a change to Logistics, it would be what some have previously suggested: give all Logistics a small bonus to efficacy of every equipment type but keep their large bonuses to their main equipment. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
5333
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Posted - 2014.09.29 13:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:
So, my opinion is NO, logi should keep their light weapon slot.
Sooo ...
Buff the underperformer.
Then immediately nerf him.
And maybe we'll come out ahead?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1807
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Posted - 2014.09.29 14:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
You see this gets difficult because you could argue both ways quite easily.
One logi might be suited towards repair work and front-line support, going into fierce battle with friendly heavies against other heavies , vehicles, enemy assaults etc.. and needed as much protection in battle as possible.
Then on the other hand you could argue a different type of logi might be a behind the enemy lines type of support logi, laying down uplinks, hacking objectives and utilising ewar similar to a scout, or perhaps going to the aftermath of battles with a nanite injector, staying away from front line battles.
In each case one part argues the "in between Heavy and Assault" position and the other indicated the "in between scouts and assault" idea.
Type A / Type B variations perhaps? Best of both worlds?
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
2881
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Posted - 2014.09.29 14:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:You see this gets difficult because you could argue both ways quite easily.
One logi might be suited towards repair work and front-line support, going into fierce battle with friendly heavies against other heavies , vehicles, enemy assaults etc.. and needed as much protection in battle as possible.
Then on the other hand you could argue a different type of logi might be a behind the enemy lines type of support logi, laying down uplinks, hacking objectives and utilising ewar similar to a scout, or perhaps going to the aftermath of battles with a nanite injector, staying away from front line battles.
In each case one part argues the "in between Heavy and Assault" position and the other indicated the "in between scouts and assault" idea.
Type A / Type B variations perhaps? Best of both worlds?
Imo Min logi is the best logi to use as a prototype for the other logi if "fast logi" is the way to go, it has already the slot layout progression of the assault and mobility values are better than the rest, you can fit it for both the roles you have listed.
More tanky to chase heavies and rep people or more mobile/agressive to sneak behind enemy lines and provide uplinks.
Personally, i use gal logi for the sneaky role and min logi to rep, but while min logi can be fitted to play in both ways, i've more problems to fit the gal for reparations, tank it would be the best way to survive in crowded zones where heavies/assault must operate, but it also slows you and you can't chase heavies and assault effectively.
PSN: ogamega
"Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items"
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Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
229
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Posted - 2014.09.29 14:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ide rather leave logis where they are than force them to be sidearm only ..Personally i think a biotic boost is in order ..Logis don't need to tank more just move faster..
But then I'm an amar logi so my opinion is based on that..my logi can barely keep up and it's responsibility is links scuffles.
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
2882
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Posted - 2014.09.29 18:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Ide rather leave logis where they are than force them to be sidearm only ..Personally i think a biotic boost is in order ..Logis don't need to tank more just move faster..
But then I'm an amar logi so my opinion is based on that..my logi can barely keep up and it's responsibility is links scuffles.
Nobody here thinks that logi should have a sidearm only slot, light weapon slot is good in it's place.
PSN: ogamega
"Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items"
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4774
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Posted - 2014.09.29 18:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think they need to buff ewar on logis.
Make it so that a logi can choose to sacrifice tank and be able to scan down a Gal Scout with 3 complex precision mods
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
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Jebus McKing
lol Proto
700
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Posted - 2014.09.29 18:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
The only buff Logis need is the removal of the Scout's 2nd equipment slot.
Closed beta vet. @JebusMcKing
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Haerr
1488
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Posted - 2014.09.29 18:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:The only buff Logis need is the removal of the Scout's 2nd equipment slot.
lol! 
well it would work, wouldn't it? |
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Haerr
1490
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Posted - 2014.09.29 18:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I think they need to buff ewar on logis.
Make it so that a logi can choose to sacrifice tank and be able to scan down a Gal Scout with 3 complex precision mods
nonononono
I do not like being scanned down... It makes me feel so... very... violated... |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
2882
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Posted - 2014.09.29 19:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:The only buff Logis need is the removal of the Scout's 2nd equipment slot.
Once I've tried to logi with a scout.
Deleted the fit after 30 seconds.
PSN: ogamega
"Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items"
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1634
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Posted - 2014.09.30 00:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
i find most of the fix logi/don't fix logi arguments completely stupid. i rarely ever see anyone asking the right questions when it comes to logi's to even warrant ideas on their proposed fix.
its quite ridiculous to even consider balancing a suit and requiring it to need team support to survive and be effective when every other suit can solo and do its own thing and its effectiveness is virtually unchanged.
if a logi should need team support to survive then so should those damage dealers require a logi to survive. in dust current state players do not need logis to survive but the logi does need other players to survive. this is a terrible way to balance the suit and has left the logi the primary target for everyone wanting an easy kill. a 5k isk mlt fit cloaked shotgun scout against a 200k isk logibro, who is likely going to win that fight even in a team. i would say the majority of the time the scout would win or lose by a tiny margin. thats not acceptable balance and does not equate to a good or fair playing experience.
logibro used to be fun but now its more like an expensive chore which guarantees multiple deaths. the only effective way to play the logi is to spam or run in poor gear and that doesn't make quality logis and certainly doesn't make them fun
All Hail Legion
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TechMechMeds
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
6085
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Posted - 2014.09.30 02:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
I am so glad that there is an actual proper logi thread with cpm involved rather than this cod sht.
that is all lol.
Ps. Not cod the lolgame.
"Never say never, and only answer the questions you wish you were asked".
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TechMechMeds
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
6085
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Posted - 2014.09.30 02:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
There you go.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=171586&find=unread
Express ideas there because here you are just p1ssing in the wind pretty much.
"Never say never, and only answer the questions you wish you were asked".
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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
2886
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Posted - 2014.09.30 09:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
@TechMechMeds
Thanks for the bump.
As long as a thread is about Dust514 related stuff there's no need to redirect on other threads, there's no QQ or ranting in my OP, maybe is not 100% complete, i didn't mention skill bonus (but i find the acceptable at the moment), if you don't like it, bring your arguments or refrain to post here.
PSN: ogamega
"Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items"
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1325
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Posted - 2014.10.03 00:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
The op assumestwo things:
that there is a one-dimensional light-medium-heavy progression line
and
that logi suits need to have their unique place somewhere in that line.
In reality CCPs stance has always been (until they choose to change their mind, of course) that logi suits are medium suits.
Medium suits of which there are two variations focusing on different things (assault and logistic).
People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
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Fizzer XCIV
Company of Marcher Lords
Amarr Empire
371
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Posted - 2014.10.03 07:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I think they need to buff ewar on logis.
Make it so that a logi can choose to sacrifice tank and be able to scan down a Gal Scout with 3 complex precision mods nonononono I do not like being scanned down... It makes me feel so... very... violated...
Its actually jot a bad idea.
It would break the complete domination that Scouts have on the EWar Department. I don't think that a single class should have a monopoly on a whole section of the game's mechanics like that. |
BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna
Dark Taboo
3185
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Haerr wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I think they need to buff ewar on logis.
Make it so that a logi can choose to sacrifice tank and be able to scan down a Gal Scout with 3 complex precision mods nonononono I do not like being scanned down... It makes me feel so... very... violated... Its actually jot a bad idea. It would break the complete domination that Scouts have on the EWar Department. I don't think that a single class should have a monopoly on a whole section of the game's mechanics like that.
Except we would have perma scanners with more HP than a scout. The dominance would shift not be eliminated. I do agree that "[not] a single class should have a monopoly on a whole section of the game's mechanics like that." But we need to come out with a different way of doing this rather than shifting the meta. My opinion would be a buff to active scanners, or shifting the scanning to medium suits, dampening to light suits, and range to heavy suits (splitting the meta evenly).
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4119
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Posted - 2014.10.03 21:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:@TechMechMeds
Thanks for the bump.
As long as a thread is about Dust514 related stuff there's no need to redirect on other threads, there's no QQ or ranting in my OP, maybe is not 100% complete, i didn't mention skill bonus (but i find the acceptable at the moment), if you don't like it, bring your arguments or refrain to post here.
Point is, though, spreading out the discussion too thin makes it harder to come to a consensus and risks some ideas getting lost. Post here all you want, but I concur with tech that anything good you put here would likely get better visibility there (particularly since it is a thread started by CPM).
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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