DUST Search - So can anyone still make isk with proto gear?

Vrain Matari wrote:

Ananke Gaia wrote:

If I die with my proto fitting which isn't even all proto gear I lose money unless I am number 1 which doesn't happen often because someone else is repping the entire game or tanking. So I am just curious is this supposed to be how it is where proto people can't use their gear and get money unless they don't die because before if I got around 1500 wp my isk gain would make up for it but now I'm ****** for sure. oh and inb4 "hurr durr you're not supposed to use it hurrr it's expensive for a reason hurr troll"

Proto was originally intended for high-stakes battles where running a loss was worth it - territory acquisition or alliance support EVE-side.

But CCP half-assed it all in several different ways and in the end all we got was a broken and incredibly boring district ownership mechanic. Tie kicker was that the mechanic was an ISK-printing machine. CCP, true to form, left things that way for a long, long time. Why? Who the **** knows, it makes zero sense to me.

This ISK fountain drove deep imbalances in the game which are still with us, including a fairly big heap of proto wearers who don't have the skillls to support running the suits but do have a giant pile of ISK from the CCP incompetence lottery.

The DUST we play today is is a lobotomized crash victim of the original vision. with the hotfix cycle we're just spending time improving the features on the wheel chair for the next sorry bastard who comes along.

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Ananke Gaia 3	Posted - 2014.09.28 07:00:00 - [1] - Quote If I die with my proto fitting which isn't even all proto gear I lose money unless I am number 1 which doesn't happen often because someone else is repping the entire game or tanking. So I am just curious is this supposed to be how it is where proto people can't use their gear and get money unless they don't die?
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Gentlemen's.Club 5181	Posted - 2014.09.28 07:12:00 - [2] - Quote I don't even have the heart to tell you how proto suits and ISK work in this game... EVE 21 Day Trial
Coleman Gray Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1217	Posted - 2014.09.28 08:10:00 - [3] - Quote I do, but I still have aurum Original Commando, before all you posers just saying
X7 lion Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 266	Posted - 2014.09.28 08:22:00 - [4] - Quote proto suits are over priced and as such have a pointless elitism surrounding them. Do not contribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance. being contradictory is not the same as being offensive.
Kalante Schiffer 760	Posted - 2014.09.28 08:37:00 - [5] - Quote My guns are advanced, proto guns are just not worth it.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12476	Posted - 2014.09.28 08:52:00 - [6] - Quote I have too much money to care. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Mejt0 The Only Survivor. 470	Posted - 2014.09.28 09:05:00 - [7] - Quote Of course you can. You can go to 0 if you will play smart. If you dont want to waste isks, use proto suits with adv guns (100k+ fits). Theres 0 difference in adv/proto guns. Its just about color and cooler name :) Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2878	Posted - 2014.09.28 09:24:00 - [8] - Quote I don't really care what suit i lose at this point, i have enough isk to buy ton of them, but i usually play in std or adv fit, i guess it's a heritage of my old days. Almost nobody can make isk with proto suits and proto weapon unless they don't die more than 3 times and play a very good match (according to the cost of my proto fits and to the isk payout for a ood match), it also depends on how good do the other members of your team do in a battle, if you have double WP from the second, you'll gain a large amount of isk, if you have the same amount of WP of the second, the payout will be lower for you. People keep spawn in proto suit only because they already have a lot of isk, not because they plan to gain more with a better suit. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming 1322	Posted - 2014.09.28 09:50:00 - [9] - Quote In my logi suit? - Yes easily as an Assault ? - Possible as a Scout? - yes but not in a team playing way generally Heavy? - depends on the map. Or if the team actually support me in my Commando setup "The air smells damp and oppressive, like a wet nun" "Why am I talking to a lightbulb? Illuminate me"
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 994	Posted - 2014.09.28 09:55:00 - [10] - Quote When I solo I can play many games without dying or dying very little. When I am in squad or PC I care way more about supporting my team and winning than I do ISK. And since I solo a lot the ISK pretty much balances out for me. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.

Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 634	Posted - 2014.09.28 10:02:00 - [11] - Quote With the previous buffs to nova knives, you now have a fair amount of speedy minjas running around. These delightful critters tend to have both a suicidal disregard for their wellbeing and a fierce, blind hatred for people in proto suits. So probably not. :^) Stabby-stabber extraordinaire I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1571	Posted - 2014.09.28 12:05:00 - [12] - Quote Should the average (or even above average) player always run proto? That's an interesting question, and it seems as if CCP has decided the answer to that is no, as the break-even point is a suit or two, typically, and an unrealistic expectation for the vast majority of players. I can't say I blame the decision, as the impact of it being economically feasible means over time all you'd see is proto, and I'm not sure that makes for as deep of a game.
Yeeeuuuupppp Vengeance Unbound 616	Posted - 2014.09.28 12:29:00 - [13] - Quote If you do good enough you will be able to pay it off "Removed for hurting my feelings" - CCP PSN: GMANCASH Rage Proficiency V
Dreis Shadowweaver Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 228	Posted - 2014.09.28 12:36:00 - [14] - Quote The trick is to use LP suits and guns. Join the 'Nova Knifers United' channel I've only ever known 1.8... Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 633	Posted - 2014.09.28 13:01:00 - [15] - Quote Unless I feel that running at a group of Heavies is a good idea (which happens regularly), yes I do. I give most of my isk away so never make much of a profit. Only Dust player with all Proto Weapons Prof 1. 19/19. Pilot, Slayer, Logibro, Heavy, Scout, Tanker, AV'er. Everything.
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 678	Posted - 2014.09.28 13:05:00 - [16] - Quote If you die more than 2 times in a proto suit then you're bad. Die once in a proto suit means you are barely average. Die 0 times means you are ok. Atleast thats the way it should be.
XxVEXESxX 31	Posted - 2014.09.28 13:29:00 - [17] - Quote Get squad. Use needles. Make isk. PSN: XxVEXESxX Minmatar loyalist Dropsuit Upgrades level 5
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 414	Posted - 2014.09.28 13:54:00 - [18] - Quote proto gear isn't meant to be an 'I win button'. proto gear naturally being the highegestb grade equipment comes with high stats that give you an advantage over other mercs. however although its much better than lower grade equipment it should provide you with an upper hand but not an instant 'I autpo win the match due to this gear and such and such. proto gear is not menat to be affordable to use nor should it be. my assault gk.o costs me 207k isk. its cheaper than my 500-600k tanks. sure it can devastate people quickly and efficiently, it should not however be the 'I win button' just because I run a 207k isk suit dosnt mean I shouldn't be killed by even millita grade equipment. proto gear gives you an upperhand but NEVER SHOULD IT BE UNKILLABLE. millita gear has the right to kill you just like how anything red has the right to kill you. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1566	Posted - 2014.09.28 14:21:00 - [19] - Quote I never did make much ISK running proto because usually I'm the only mother fcker on my team that's actually trying; so I end up dying several times a match. Somehow though I managed to run exclusively proto for a long, long time even though dying twice would put me out of ~400k ISK. We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3669	Posted - 2014.09.28 14:27:00 - [20] - Quote If you're going to use proto, you better make damn sure you can fit as many proto stuff inside you can, or go home. That said, I mostly stick to STD.

DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5387	Posted - 2014.09.28 14:45:00 - [21] - Quote Ion pistols obliterate even the fastest of Minmatar scouts while the combat rifle still melts every heavy to death. Works for me. Granted I do not have the Ion pistol to proto. Learn to separate the morals from the Muhla.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 593	Posted - 2014.09.28 14:46:00 - [22] - Quote I run advanced. Occasionally I run proto for for fun, for a PC, or because I've already been playing a match for a bit and feel it's likely I'll be able to make a difference with it without dying (so not when lots of cloaked scouts are running around taking cheap shots). I bought a fair amount of AU proto suits when they were only 40 AU each. I suggest you do the same when that deal comes round again. AU (with the discount) is the only way (outside of plenty of PC or the now fixed new character money transfer exploit) to have enough proto to feel ok just running it for for fun sometimes. It's worth it.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2251	Posted - 2014.09.28 15:14:00 - [23] - Quote Ananke Gaia wrote: If I die with my proto fitting which isn't even all proto gear I lose money unless I am number 1 which doesn't happen often because someone else is repping the entire game or tanking. So I am just curious is this supposed to be how it is where proto people can't use their gear and get money unless they don't die because before if I got around 1500 wp my isk gain would make up for it but now I'm ****** for sure. oh and inb4 "hurr durr you're not supposed to use it hurrr it's expensive for a reason hurr troll" Proto was originally intended for high-stakes battles where running a loss was worth it - territory acquisition or alliance support EVE-side. But CCP half-assed it all in several different ways and in the end all we got was a broken and incredibly boring district ownership mechanic. Tie kicker was that the mechanic was an ISK-printing machine. CCP, true to form, left things that way for a long, long time. Why? Who the **** knows, it makes zero sense to me. This ISK fountain drove deep imbalances in the game which are still with us, including a fairly big heap of proto wearers who don't have the skillls to support running the suits but do have a giant pile of ISK from the CCP incompetence lottery. The DUST we play today is is a lobotomized crash victim of the original vision. with the hotfix cycle we're just spending time improving the features on the wheel chair for the next sorry bastard who comes along. PSN: RationalSpark
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 641	Posted - 2014.09.29 02:16:00 - [24] - Quote XxVEXESxX wrote: Get squad. Use needles. Make isk. First you get the money. Then you get the power. Then you get the women... Stabby-stabber extraordinaire I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9587	Posted - 2014.09.29 02:41:00 - [25] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Ananke Gaia wrote: If I die with my proto fitting which isn't even all proto gear I lose money unless I am number 1 which doesn't happen often because someone else is repping the entire game or tanking. So I am just curious is this supposed to be how it is where proto people can't use their gear and get money unless they don't die because before if I got around 1500 wp my isk gain would make up for it but now I'm ****** for sure. oh and inb4 "hurr durr you're not supposed to use it hurrr it's expensive for a reason hurr troll" Proto was originally intended for high-stakes battles where running a loss was worth it - territory acquisition or alliance support EVE-side. But CCP half-assed it all in several different ways and in the end all we got was a broken and incredibly boring district ownership mechanic. Tie kicker was that the mechanic was an ISK-printing machine. CCP, true to form, left things that way for a long, long time. Why? Who the **** knows, it makes zero sense to me. This ISK fountain drove deep imbalances in the game which are still with us, including a fairly big heap of proto wearers who don't have the skillls to support running the suits but do have a giant pile of ISK from the CCP incompetence lottery. The DUST we play today is is a lobotomized crash victim of the original vision. with the hotfix cycle we're just spending time improving the features on the wheel chair for the next sorry bastard who comes along. Well, it wasn't strictly for PC matches. It was also for public matches where lone wolves can feel a little bit powerful for a while before their wallet goes to the red -- which results in happening on the first death -- and then they're forced to play with ADV gear or less. I can say that it's nice to see people run proto anywhere in the game but we have to remember that running proto is not meant to be sustainable for long periods. Just like in Eve Online where suicide-ganking high-sec miners is not meant to be a sustainable effort unless a very large and powerful entity provides rewards for such an effort. Which brings me to my next point. I was listening to an episode of Startalk hosted by Neil DeGrasse Tyson on Soundcloud who had an interview with the CEO of XPRIZE, Peter Diamandis. Apparently, even though a prize can be less than what a team's investment for a competition can be, people will still participate for the competition as long as it means bragging rights for the winner. PC use to be about that I imagine. You go in full proto knowing you're going to loss a lot of money but you get in anyways because of the bragging rights where you can say "hell yeah, we beat Nyan San!" Unfortunately PC lost its competitive edge as soon as it became an ATM where all districts got locked continuously every day with no one doing any serious fights. Even though it's been fixed now, PC is just not the same anymore. So as a result we need something else to drive us to use proto gear. These events we're having is a good alternative at the very least like the Million Clone Challenge and the upcoming Sidearm Expert Challenge where you're likely to see proto-suits wielding militia nova knives so they can get the most damage out of those cutters while still being able to stay qualified to hopefully be able to name an officer weapon when this is over. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
PO0KY Virtual Syndicate 1024	Posted - 2014.09.29 02:44:00 - [26] - Quote I've started running proto 24/7 and I can barely break even. My weekly/monthly K/D is usually between 10-20, buthe I still don't make profit, so yeah its hard. I'm so helpful.
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 53	Posted - 2014.09.29 02:52:00 - [27] - Quote Why would you? Your maxed out skills still apply to you when you're in std gear, so std is actually pretty good for you compared to when you first started. Get good with std gear and you'll be making isk. Not to mention, you'll be getting better at the game with your skills, not just relying on the fact that you're the guy with the most powerful equipment. Save the proto gear for when you get pissed off, or you have a reason to bring it out. You'll be used to running std, so it will make it seem like you're on beast mode when you use it.
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 272	Posted - 2014.09.29 02:55:00 - [28] - Quote My full proto assault with ALL PROTO modules comes to about 200,000+ isk My full proto commando comes to around 265,000+ isk Basically you run pro for PC matches not pubs. However, people run enough money to proto pubs and have so much in the bank they can cover any losses even with a bad game. Proto if you want to have an advantage vs other mercs in a pub. If you want to win the match bring proto. Just fight smartly in pubs since you won't get the payout. If it was easy to afford proto gear then everyone would run proto and then there would be no point running anything else. I bring the best gear when i want to win the match. GIve yourself the advantage, punk everybody else. Simply put, If you can't afford to run full proto then don't...... We have these pub proto stomps only because CCP didn't anticipate the ISK printing exploitation of PC and by the time they noticed and fixed it, people already had gobs of money. They can do anything now without going broke. Proto stomps are just an deadly disease that will forever run rampant. Just protect yourself when you run into one. 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
valad II NoGameNoLife 139	Posted - 2014.09.29 03:01:00 - [29] - Quote Ananke Gaia wrote: If I die with my proto fitting which isn't even all proto gear I lose money unless I am number 1 which doesn't happen often because someone else is repping the entire game or tanking. So I am just curious is this supposed to be how it is where proto people can't use their gear and get money unless they don't die because before if I got around 1500 wp my isk gain would make up for it but now I'm ****** for sure. oh and inb4 "hurr durr you're not supposed to use it hurrr it's expensive for a reason hurr troll" Proto suits, gear, weapons were never meant to be an isk generator. They were suppose to fall inline with that risk Vs. reward.
Eruditus 920 Prodigy Ops 496	Posted - 2014.09.29 03:02:00 - [30] - Quote Pro tip: Ambush helps fund my proto fetish. In my opinion, Ambush is usually a meat grinder whether you are the sausage or the hand turning the handle. I have a Frontline starter fit with a scrubby standard RR for some range (no prof), a SMG, and R-9 uplinks. When Ambush comes up on the slot machine, I use this 3k fit, drop links, kill what's killable, and have a few laughs. 75% of the time I can finish top two, make 250k some odd ISK, and that supplements my serious Skirmish and Dom matches where I will run some proto. I never have ISK issues. Oh, and try not to die. Wisdom is what you gain after you need it.

hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 277	Posted - 2014.09.29 03:10:00 - [31] - Quote yeah all i run is logi proto, i have good days and bad days, but never go broke, but not rich either
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 227	Posted - 2014.09.29 04:55:00 - [32] - Quote Ananke Gaia wrote: If I die with my proto fitting which isn't even all proto gear I lose money unless I am number 1 which doesn't happen often because someone else is repping the entire game or tanking. So I am just curious is this supposed to be how it is where proto people can't use their gear and get money unless they don't die because before if I got around 1500 wp my isk gain would make up for it but now I'm ****** for sure. oh and inb4 "hurr durr you're not supposed to use it hurrr it's expensive for a reason hurr troll" 1500 wp.with a proto you should feel ashamed no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Michael Arck 5819	Posted - 2014.09.29 04:55:00 - [33] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: XxVEXESxX wrote: Get squad. Use needles. Make isk. First you get the money. Then you get the power. Then you get the women... "I want the world chico...and everything in it" Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1008	Posted - 2014.09.29 05:34:00 - [34] - Quote I run proto for fun in pubs. Not all the time. If I see some heavy hitters on the other side, probably. If I see a full squad of heavy hitters and I'm running solo...probably not. REs yes, proto no. I guess the sad thing about that statement is that I've played for so long I can tell you exactly who the slayers are. Of course nothing is more fun than wrecking an entire crew while they're proto'd out. The best OB is the one that takes the most ISK off the field or a Thales. ADV gear 70% BPO free suit 25% PROTO 5% Now I have had a slight change since the huge SP event, I went proto minmatar commando and I really needed to practice the suit to get it PC viable. So I've been running it a lot. In the name of science I'm willing to burn through quite a bit of ISK.
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 74	Posted - 2014.09.29 07:36:00 - [35] - Quote dont die and you make isk. simple
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 285	Posted - 2014.09.30 19:39:00 - [36] - Quote Ananke Gaia wrote: If I die with my proto fitting which isn't even all proto gear I lose money unless I am number 1 which doesn't happen often because someone else is repping the entire game or tanking. So I am just curious is this supposed to be how it is where proto people can't use their gear and get money unless they don't die because before if I got around 1500 wp my isk gain would make up for it but now I'm ****** for sure. oh and inb4 "hurr durr you're not supposed to use it hurrr it's expensive for a reason hurr troll" Hello, Ananke. And I like your character name! Original sounding, and New Eden Splendid, in my opinion. Out of all those Dust and EVE Online promotional videos CCP made on the internet, the one I like the most is the "Greetings Soldier" video introduction we get RIGHT after we've created our Dust character. I think the speaker's name is Aura, and she explains late in the video... "If you get killed, and you WILL get killed..." I always like the way she says that. Aura KNOWS Dust, and she doesn't even care to know how good you think you are---cuz you WILL get killed repeatedly; it's unavoidable. I think the game does want you to use proto gear in your matches, but with a personalized attempt to MANAGE your fittings in the way that's going to make you money as you use them. The shrewd EVE Online player doesn't skill up to the Acension Super Titan in order to pack it full of nothing but proto modules and take it out into space every day. The object is to choose the right combo (the right fit) of economical gear + high SP earned modifiers + yes, a sprinkling of proto items in there too, to earn a profitable day in the game. Same with Dust. A lot of us are still thinking the object is to "proto" every aspect of your collection, and go out at least once a day with the Cadallac, my run-DMC, No-can-scratch-me-mutha Suit. A suit so fat with every gun & module proto or adv,... but so expensive you don't dare wear it more than 1 out of every 10 matches. That thinking is not really the way to go. I think the aim of offering so many proto items to us, is so that theoriteically we can "pimp out"a suit that's has the right combo of economical gear + the one or two proto items. A pimped suit that is clearly better than most of the enemies we'll engage, but is econmical enough that we don't have to horde up ISK for five days before we can use it on the 6th day. For me, an advance medium basic suit with adv shotgun and proto armoour is a money-making suit for everyday use. (Only 110,000 ISK). For the next person who thinks like a clever EVE capsuleer, the basic light suit, proto nade and nanohive (and a lot of stacked basic shields) is the money-maker she uses nearly every match (140,000 ISK) Not everyone in the game is "going cheap" in order to make their ISK. But not everyone is wasting cash trying to build proto-ALL with our stuff----because I don't thing either of these is the most satisfying way to manage your profit in New Eden. I try to explain that to those random players I meet who are asking for an ISK handout in the chat channels, but... oh well. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Duke Noobiam S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 174	Posted - 2014.09.30 20:07:00 - [37] - Quote Very few players could break even (over the long run) if they ran proto all the time and only used ISK from their public battles to pay for their suits. The problem is that we have a relatively small subset of very rich players who have hundreds of millions or billions of ISK. These players can more or less run proto gear with impunity. Here is how they managed to accumulate these fortunes of ISK... 1. Some degenerate CORPORATIONS made billions of ISK from owning districts (prior to CCP fixing the passive ISK payments for clone packs) in Planetary Conquest. Bascically the CORPS with the best players at the time (escept for WTF who refused to join) formed an alliance and agreed to not fight each other in PC all the while farming ISK so that they could protostomp noobs in public matches. These were the worst days of proto-stomping IMO as members of these corps would run proto gear all the time and simply ask for 50 million ISK from their corp directors when they would run low. 2. Many vets from the BETA days made (and managed to save) a ton of ISK when the game was officially released as all their salvaged gear (from Beta) was bought back at the actual market value. Nothing to begrudge these players as they supported the game during beta with their wallets and time. 3. Some players have played and grinded ISK for years whikle running starter/basic/BPO fits and accumulated vast amounts of wealth. These are the players we should all admire. How do you kill that which has no life?
Extraneus Tenebrarum CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 95	Posted - 2014.09.30 20:16:00 - [38] - Quote Well I run proto suits because: 1. I got the isk to support the life style 2.My min scout does not have the pg on lower tiers for my stuff ( 11 pg shields hurt) 3 i dont have the fitting space for adv and standard variants of suits , weapons and modules 4. i don die that mich as I avoid suicide missions I dont make much money but I dont lose that much either, so I basically brake even
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1181	Posted - 2014.09.30 22:05:00 - [39] - Quote Your not supposed to use it, there is a reason it is expensive. Because, that's why.


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