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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2903	Posted - 2014.09.20 10:17:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Rattati I must respectfully disagree with your assessment that there is nothing wrong with the caldari scouts. There is a persistent hit detection issue when using direct fire weapons at the calscouts that makes them almost impossible to burn down. This is not replicable with any other scout suit, and is most noticable with extreme rate of fire weapons such as the Assault rifles, ACR, Asscram, HMG and SMG. the behaviors of the scout players is different for each suit with noticable trends because of each suit's quirks and if it was a lag issue it would be evident in other scouts and forge hits on ADS as they all operate at extreme speeds. Most scouts instantly bug out once they are detected because they get ripped. I will use the HMG as the example here because it provides the most extreme illustration of the phenomenon. The results of firing an HMG and the behaviors of the scouts are as follows: Amarr: universally try to bug out and get out of range or behind cover. They take a bit to kill because amarr scouts have the best overall EHP. The damage he takes from the HMG is NOTICABLE. Gallente: Binary. Either you saw him first, or he's trying to hit the sentinel the second time before panic fire kills him. He will either bug out of he has not hit you, or he will try to close fast to pull the second shot for the kill. Damage taken from the HMG is not only noticable, but he will die with any sustained fire. You maybe waste half a msg if he's extremely dodgy. More likely 100-150 bullets to kill. Minmatar: We call them Minjas for a reason. They are dependent on not being seen and being on you so fast there is no chance to react. When seen by an HMG the damage is not only notable but extreme. They are incredibly hard to track with an HMG but when they get hit they lose massive amounts of shields and armor instantly. An encounter with most minmatar scouts is binary. Either he gets the drop on you and you die or you fire first and he bugs out or dies. You never see scout packs. Now we come to the exception to tge general themes of scout behavior. Unlike the others, most calscouts seem to favor the CR or SMG. When fired upon in CQC if they flee, they do so in straight lines. Usually they will cheerfully tackle a sentinel in CQC at 15-20m. This is odd. Why is it? When fired upon with HMG or other autofire weapon a calscout typically strafes at 15-20m around the target firing an SMG or CR variant. When they are tagged inside the reticle most of the time they take no damage or miniscule damage. I have never beaten a calscout in cqc who was not standing still and I know its not skill issue. When I catch other scouts they bug out or die. This is not a standard hit detection problem. The shield flash only happens when they actually register the hit. This happens intermittently. Usually no hits register. The illusiory shield flicker bug is entirely absent. I use the HMG as the example because it is the most obvious and extreme example. The problem crops up with all direct fire weapons. The only reliable way I have found to apply damage to caldari scouts has been via splash damage. Only mass drivers, flaylocks (when they arent at the apex of a jump), plasma cannon, RE, grenades and forge guns (you wont get a body shot) can consistently register hits. Watch how they play. Caldari scouts are absolutely fearless and I have found entire squads who do not bother utilizing cloaks, behaving in all ways as superior model calassaults. Other scouts do not display this resilience or behavior. I am not saying that a nerf is needed. I am saying somewhere the calscout is mechanically broken.
hfderrtgvcd 443	Posted - 2014.09.20 13:37:00 - [2] - Quote Been testing with a corpmate and there is definitely something wrong. He survived a flux with half shelds, and continually received zero damage from a shtogun while strafing through the reticule. Combat rifles also only receive hit markers a fraction of the time even if my reticule was directly on him. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2143	Posted - 2014.09.20 13:41:00 - [3] - Quote I lol'd @ "asscram" I do agree that there seems to be something wonky about them. I generally will swap to an AMD fit if I notice a lot of them in the match. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2091	Posted - 2014.09.20 14:10:00 - [4] - Quote Film a video and support a help ticket? That would probably get the best response. Dust was real! I was there!
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 521	Posted - 2014.09.20 14:19:00 - [5] - Quote Yeah video documentation would help. Now that you mention it I think when I've had issues with scouts strafing through my HMG spray and not taking nearly enough damage they were all Cal scouts. I've heard other comments about how they don't take damage. There's a lot of people out there who think they're the **** and need a rude awakening.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5031	Posted - 2014.09.20 14:19:00 - [6] - Quote 1. Agreed on CalScout buggy hitbox 2. Disagreed on "never see Scout packs" Perhaps anecdotal, but I am much more likely to survive f*ckups in my Caldari Scout than in my Gallente, Amarr or Minmatar Scout. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2910	Posted - 2014.09.20 14:25:00 - [7] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Film a video and support a help ticket? That would probably get the best response. I do not have the capability of doing this. All I can do is describe in as much detail what I am observing and hope it's not just my perception that is jacked. So I have been studying the differences between the behaviors of the scouts over the last few weeks. I'm only now confident that there is a consistent, repeating pattern.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2910	Posted - 2014.09.20 14:27:00 - [8] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: 1. Agreed on CalScout buggy hitbox 2. Disagreed on "never see Scout packs" Perhaps anecdotal, but I am much more likely to survive f*ckups in my Caldari Scout than in my Gallente, Amarr or Minmatar Scout. You almost never see galscout, amscout or minja packs. They aren't packhunters normally. It is not unusual to see 3-6 calscouts operating not only as a squad, but more tellingly not bothering to run cloaks.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5031	Posted - 2014.09.20 14:42:00 - [9] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Been testing with a corpmate and there is definitely something wrong. He survived a flux with half shelds, and continually received zero damage from a shtogun while strafing through the reticule. Combat rifles also only receive hit markers a fraction of the time even if my reticule was directly on him. Personal Observations: 1) If a shotgunner gets the drop on me while I'm running CalScout, he will almost always miss his first blast. This is seldom the case when I'm running Gallente, Amarr or Minmatar Scout. 2) If I'm weaving to-and-fro while running away from a shooter, I'm much more likely to dodge his bullets with a 8 m/s CalScout than with a 9 m/s MinScout or 10 m/s GalScout. Same goes for wiggle-wiggle strafing while under fire from high RoF weapons (i.e. HMG, ScR, AR, CR). 3) If I'm hit squarely with a cooked grenade, there's a chance I'll take zero damage ... so long as I'm running CalScout. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2912	Posted - 2014.09.20 15:40:00 - [10] - Quote I was expecting a lot more cries that the calscouts are fine. In almost 6 hours no such thing. Interesting.

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5033	Posted - 2014.09.20 15:56:00 - [11] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You almost never see galscout, amscout or minja packs. They aren't packhunters normally. Old-school Scouts are tight-knit bunch; they routinely hunt in packs together. Whether or not you "see" them is an altogether separate matter. Breakin Stuff wrote: (1) It is not unusual to see 3-6 calscouts operating not only as a squad, but (2) more tellingly not bothering to run cloaks. 1) Pre-Charlie, I would not have been surprised to see a squad with 3-6 CalScouts, but such a sight now would likely be an anomaly. Buggy hitbox or not, CalScout usage is in decline due to a number of factors. 2) Cloak usage among CalScouts has more to do with its current strengths than its buggy hitbox. To be effective, cloak requires a Scout to run damps. If a CalScout is running damps, he is not maximizing his strengths. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2914	Posted - 2014.09.20 16:02:00 - [12] - Quote Theres a few people who seem to both realize the weirdness and are capitalizing on it hard.
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 84	Posted - 2014.09.20 16:10:00 - [13] - Quote Tell me how 3 shots from a duvolle shottie hit the cal scout today, but he still killed me with one from an adv shottie. We both had full health. Both adv, him in a cal and me in a gal. TELL HOW THE F!!!!!!!!! That happened 37 kills with nova knives
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2916	Posted - 2014.09.20 16:13:00 - [14] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Tell me how 3 shots from a duvolle shottie hit the cal scout today, but he still killed me with one from an adv shottie. We both had full health. Both adv, him in a cal and me in a gal. TELL HOW THE F!!!!!!!!! That happened This is kinda the question we are all asking here. We have a scout user saying something is hinky here. The Calscout is an anomaly
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5034	Posted - 2014.09.20 16:19:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I was expecting a lot more cries that the calscouts are fine. In almost 6 hours no such thing. Interesting. The buggy hitbox is not new news. You may find post-1.8 "scouts" willing to claim that the hitbox is fine, but those of us who've been at it longer know better. From CCP's standpoint, I can it understand this not being a priority item; CalScouts are no longer being spammed. Breakin Stuff wrote: Theres a few people who seem to both realize the weirdness and are capitalizing on it hard. The CalScout bug affords its user some advantage in some situations; it is bullsh!t, but it is not a win-button. "Abusers" would be better served by running a Burst HMG, AmAss+ScR or Python. Bugged or not, the CalScout is still a Scout and is still subject to arse-kicking ... it just takes a little more ammo. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Cheydinhal Guard Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 200	Posted - 2014.09.20 16:55:00 - [16] - Quote I want to agree. Today I hit a calscout with a charged ScR shot and it didn't register, blue shield flash and everything. The same thing happened earlier with a few heavies and a logi, but I digress. But for some reason I never have this godly power of a broken hitbox on my calscout. My 222 shields are obliterated by anything and everything. It's my knifing fit, if it matters. I can wait an entire hour in about 10 minutes. Impressive, i know.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 392	Posted - 2014.09.20 17:29:00 - [17] - Quote My cal scout gets dstroyed easily. never see this problem tbh.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1822	Posted - 2014.09.21 04:45:00 - [18] - Quote I have been running Cal scout quite a bit lately and have noticed that my ability to survive combat fluctuates dramatically. Sometimes I will be able to take on proto heavies with frontal assaults (as Breakin Stuff described it pretty much) other times I will get completely obliterated by such tactics and will have to play it all a bit sneakier. The inconsistancy I have experienced both in the cal scout and in other suits seems to indicate that there is something going on but that it is not only an issue with the suit. I am going to theorize that this is a problem with the calscout hit box that is caused by lag. Mind you this is entirely anecdotal as well. I'd also like to point out that several corp mates did extensive testing with the cal scout and found that its range bonus seems to have zero effect currently. With proto skills its scans do not extend farther than any other suit. Once hearing this I stopped running my ewar scout and went back to the 600+ hp quick brick tanked cal scout which has been much more succesful, others may have found the same to be true which could account for the general sturdiness of calscouts you run into. If/when the cal scouts passive skills are fixed we will probably see more people fitting them for ewar which may reduce people's issues with the suit. Now with more evil.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2938	Posted - 2014.09.21 15:38:00 - [19] - Quote the radar reaches 120. You can only detect inside the tiny circle (20-40m-ish.) It's the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Why do you have a radar that goes out to 120m if it NEVER WORKS???
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1823	Posted - 2014.09.21 15:50:00 - [20] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: the radar reaches 120. You can only detect inside the tiny circle (20-40m-ish.) It's the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Why do you have a radar that goes out to 120m if it NEVER WORKS??? According to the charts Rattati put out just before Charlie's release max range should be around 90m. Now with more evil.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2943	Posted - 2014.09.21 16:05:00 - [21] - Quote Only if you have a friendly detector near them or flag them with your reticle. I can't get it to detect outside the 40m microcircle otherwise for the most part.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5076	Posted - 2014.09.21 18:37:00 - [22] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: According to the charts Rattati put out just before Charlie's release max range should be around 90m. ^ Mobius is correct ... 91m - Max CA Scout scan range 86m - Max GA/AM Scout scan range 76m - Max MN Scout scan range 67m - Max Logi scan range Shield Tank or Scan Range are the CalScout's two strengths. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
iKILLu osborne Z PLATOON CALDARI STATE PEACEMAKERS 320	Posted - 2014.09.22 06:57:00 - [23] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: the radar reaches 120. You can only detect inside the tiny circle (20-40m-ish.) It's the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Why do you have a radar that goes out to 120m if it NEVER WORKS??? According to the charts Rattati put out just before Charlie's release max range should be around 90m. bologna, if my range was 90m i would be a god!!! cal scout btw let the hate rain yes i am able to strafe through hmg if i have speed built up but otherwise its instablab, I mostly run my full ewar shotty so i'm not on the recieving end often or for sustained periods so i cannot say if they are hit detection issues or not. That whole "cal scout packs without cloaks" is utter bullshit, i know every cal scout (thats at lvl 5) and i have never seen, heard or partook in it. if that ^ becomes a thing though invite me "yeah i fought the redline it took it only 13 seconds....." fought scotty too but something went wrong


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