DUST Search - Are RE's OP?

Monkey MAC wrote:

Sequal Rise wrote:

Monkey MAC wrote:

Sequal Rise wrote:

RE's should be AV only. This would fix every problems we all have with it. Now scouts have KN, shotguns and cloaks to sneak behind a team and one shot peoples. They also have a grenade slot, so why would they need RE's if these werent OP at the moment?

Sentinels
Traps
Destroying large swathes of equipment.
Wolfpacks
Mosh pits

Remote Explosives are useful on variety of occasions. The only other equipment that benefits a scout are.
Uplinks
Scanner

I know it's not the topic of this thread but do they really need a 2nd equipment slot?

Sentinels: throw a grenade/ KN it/ Shotgun it
Traps: Run arround your enemies, be smarter than your target and kill it in the back instead of pressing a button..
Destroying equipments: throw a grenade and it will work as well.
Wolfpacks/Mosh pits: Again, throw a grenade in the middle of the pack, try to get close to them.

A scout isn't supposed to rush the enemy team in the front line in order to throw a Re and have easy kill. It's supposed to be smarter than the enemy, in order to kill them in their back without beeing spotted.

Then prehaps your problem is wkth scouts not the RE.

In reality RE's are only effective against dumb or immobile players.

The Sentinel running round a corner looking for an eaay kill.
The wolfpack jammed into a door way 3 a breast with no-one watching their six.
The Logi running 5m behind his dog.

If your problem is with Scouts running directly through fire and tossing a momentum boosted RE into the midst of your team.
Your question should not be about how the RE needs nerfing to stop it being used like that, because you can't FAIRLY do that without screwing anyone who uses RE's legitimately.

You should instead be asking, why are scouts capable of being used like that, to which the answer is considerably simpler.
Dodgy Hit boxes
Overpowered eWAR
Tanked Scouts having to much eHP.

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Vegetation Monster G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 294	Posted - 2014.09.20 06:11:00 - [1] - Quote What should be done about them if yes? What makes them balanced if no? B Double O T Y
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 234	Posted - 2014.09.20 07:04:00 - [2] - Quote I say leave it as is. Its a high explosive bomb to destroy vehicles, installations, Bomb Traps,etc. Remote are great for defending objective points or booby trapping supply depots and CRU's. Easily defended against with vigilant eyes. Blueberry are known for their sheer ignorance but they learn soon(hopefully) The only issue for most is the time to activation. If it activates in too short a time, it effectively becomes a huge throw-able grenade that does 2x or 3x of a normal grenade and that is where your QQ comes from. Scouts running into a cloaked room or other wise players in a confined space. The scout can throw one on the ground and before anyone notices the scout(considering he may be able to throw the charge while cloaked and cloak back before he's noticed). He can detonate the bomb with no warning whatsoever. Some can throw a charge from a high place and it can activate in mid-air, so before it even hits the ground, it can detonate. Get 2-4 scouts spamming this and...well you have some problems...rather the enemy side has problems. Effective Yes.....but is that OP or just very cheap tactics? I've seen 4-5 scouts dropping RE's from the top of buildings like its rain. It can really shut down areas too, especially the DOM match where A is inside a silo of some sort. Don't know the map name 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
tander09 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 121	Posted - 2014.09.20 07:32:00 - [3] - Quote pulls out toxin SMG say that again? GALLENTE! YOU WILL PAY FOR BRAINWASHING ME!!! AMARRIAN4LYFE
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2901	Posted - 2014.09.20 08:11:00 - [4] - Quote Its the activation time. Should not be shorter than a grenade fuse. But right now REs are used as grenades because they work better.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 60	Posted - 2014.09.20 08:53:00 - [5] - Quote RE's should be AV only. This would fix every problems we all have with it. Now scouts have KN, shotguns and cloaks to sneak behind a team and one shot peoples. They also have a grenade slot, so why would they need RE's if these werent OP at the moment? Sorry for my bad english ^^
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3531	Posted - 2014.09.20 08:54:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Its the activation time. Should not be shorter than a grenade fuse. But right now REs are used as grenades because they work better. RE have at least a 2 second arming time. Which only begins AFTER the RE has settled (stuck where ever it stuck) The whole process on average takes upwards of 4 seconds to deploy an RE. There is no problem with current iteration of RE's, there is a problem with the easily exploitable behaviour of players that makes Alpha based AOE weapons so powerful. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3531	Posted - 2014.09.20 08:57:00 - [7] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: RE's should be AV only. This would fix every problems we all have with it. Now scouts have KN, shotguns and cloaks to sneak behind a team and one shot peoples. They also have a grenade slot, so why would they need RE's if these werent OP at the moment? Sentinels Traps Destroying large swathes of equipment. Wolfpacks Mosh pits Remote Explosives are useful on variety of occasions. The only other equipment that benefits a scout are. Uplinks Scanner They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 61	Posted - 2014.09.20 09:09:00 - [8] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: RE's should be AV only. This would fix every problems we all have with it. Now scouts have KN, shotguns and cloaks to sneak behind a team and one shot peoples. They also have a grenade slot, so why would they need RE's if these werent OP at the moment? Sentinels Traps Destroying large swathes of equipment. Wolfpacks Mosh pits Remote Explosives are useful on variety of occasions. The only other equipment that benefits a scout are. Uplinks Scanner I know it's not the topic of this thread but do they really need a 2nd equipment slot? Sentinels: throw a grenade/ KN it/ Shotgun it Traps: Run arround your enemies, be smarter than your target and kill it in the back instead of pressing a button.. Destroying equipments: throw a grenade and it will work as well. Wolfpacks/Mosh pits: Again, throw a grenade in the middle of the pack, try to get close to them. A scout isn't supposed to rush the enemy team in the front line in order to throw a Re and have easy kill. It's supposed to be smarter than the enemy, in order to kill them in their back without beeing spotted. Sorry for my bad english ^^
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1173	Posted - 2014.09.20 09:14:00 - [9] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: What should be done about them if yes? What makes them balanced if no? OP mainly because they can be refilled at hives and thrown huge distances. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3533	Posted - 2014.09.20 23:22:00 - [10] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: RE's should be AV only. This would fix every problems we all have with it. Now scouts have KN, shotguns and cloaks to sneak behind a team and one shot peoples. They also have a grenade slot, so why would they need RE's if these werent OP at the moment? Sentinels Traps Destroying large swathes of equipment. Wolfpacks Mosh pits Remote Explosives are useful on variety of occasions. The only other equipment that benefits a scout are. Uplinks Scanner I know it's not the topic of this thread but do they really need a 2nd equipment slot? Sentinels: throw a grenade/ KN it/ Shotgun it Traps: Run arround your enemies, be smarter than your target and kill it in the back instead of pressing a button.. Destroying equipments: throw a grenade and it will work as well. Wolfpacks/Mosh pits: Again, throw a grenade in the middle of the pack, try to get close to them. A scout isn't supposed to rush the enemy team in the front line in order to throw a Re and have easy kill. It's supposed to be smarter than the enemy, in order to kill them in their back without beeing spotted. Then prehaps your problem is wkth scouts not the RE. In reality RE's are only effective against dumb or immobile players. The Sentinel running round a corner looking for an eaay kill. The wolfpack jammed into a door way 3 a breast with no-one watching their six. The Logi running 5m behind his dog. If your problem is with Scouts running directly through fire and tossing a momentum boosted RE into the midst of your team. Your question should not be about how the RE needs nerfing to stop it being used like that, because you can't FAIRLY do that without screwing anyone who uses RE's legitimately. You should instead be asking, why are scouts capable of being used like that, to which the answer is considerably simpler. Dodgy Hit boxes Overpowered eWAR Tanked Scouts having to much eHP. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 992	Posted - 2014.09.20 23:30:00 - [11] - Quote REs are just to easy to resupply. Ascout has two equipment meaning he can carry REs and a set of hives and spam nearly unlimited amounts of them. On a side note I had my first fun ever today with them. I shot an enemy remote and killed two team mates to help with the MCC. As an added bonus I got the hack.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4276	Posted - 2014.09.20 23:33:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Its the activation time. Should not be shorter than a grenade fuse. But right now REs are used as grenades because they work better. The difference is that REs need to be manually activated. First, you kill the RE thrower, then you stand back and blow the RE. Problem solved. Grenades can be cooked, and will automatically go off, even after death. They are not the same. Meee One wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: What should be done about them if yes? What makes them balanced if no? OP mainly because they can be refilled at hives and thrown huge distances. They cannot be thrown huge distances. That is patently false. A few meters maybe, but that is not a huge distance. You can always tell a Millford Minja
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 992	Posted - 2014.09.20 23:36:00 - [13] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Its the activation time. Should not be shorter than a grenade fuse. But right now REs are used as grenades because they work better. The difference is that REs need to be manually activated. First, you kill the RE thrower, then you stand back and blow the RE. Problem solved. Grenades can be cooked, and will automatically go off, even after death. They are not the same. Meee One wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: What should be done about them if yes? What makes them balanced if no? OP mainly because they can be refilled at hives and thrown huge distances. They cannot be thrown huge distances. That is patently false. A few meters maybe, but that is not a huge distance. I would not call it a huge distance but they can be thrown a pretty good distance when used with sprint + jump. I see you had no argument for them being resupplied so easy which really is an issue.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4276	Posted - 2014.09.20 23:46:00 - [14] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Its the activation time. Should not be shorter than a grenade fuse. But right now REs are used as grenades because they work better. The difference is that REs need to be manually activated. First, you kill the RE thrower, then you stand back and blow the RE. Problem solved. Grenades can be cooked, and will automatically go off, even after death. They are not the same. Meee One wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: What should be done about them if yes? What makes them balanced if no? OP mainly because they can be refilled at hives and thrown huge distances. They cannot be thrown huge distances. That is patently false. A few meters maybe, but that is not a huge distance. I would not call it a huge distance but they can be thrown a pretty good distance when used with sprint + jump. I see you had no argument for them being resupplied so easy which really is an issue. That isn't an issue because you cannot have more than 3 or 4 active at the same time. Using them after your max is redundant. I don't know where people are seeing REs as a problem. They are not as pervasive as they were before the bleedout detonation was a thing, and with the increased activation time, you really have to be not paying attention in order for them to kill you. So start paying attention. You can always tell a Millford Minja
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 992	Posted - 2014.09.20 23:56:00 - [15] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: That isn't an issue because you cannot have more than 3 or 4 active at the same time. Using them after your max is redundant. I don't know where people are seeing REs as a problem. They are not as pervasive as they were before the bleedout detonation was a thing, and with the increased activation time, you really have to be not paying attention in order for them to kill you. So start paying attention. A scout standing on the high ground with a hive dropping remote after remote is surely not a problem. A scout that just stands around the corner throwing out remotes ensuring you can not get anywhere near him even after you shoot his remotes so that you can not get anywhere near him is not an issue at all. If spamming them is not an issue then there should not be a single scout that cares if remotes operate like every other piece of equipment and does not resupply without a suit change. No other equipment can be stocked with a nanohive and other equipment is not even a weapon.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4277	Posted - 2014.09.21 00:13:00 - [16] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: One Eyed King wrote: That isn't an issue because you cannot have more than 3 or 4 active at the same time. Using them after your max is redundant. I don't know where people are seeing REs as a problem. They are not as pervasive as they were before the bleedout detonation was a thing, and with the increased activation time, you really have to be not paying attention in order for them to kill you. So start paying attention. A scout standing on the high ground with a hive dropping remote after remote is surely not a problem. A scout that just stands around the corner throwing out remotes ensuring you can not get anywhere near him even after you shoot his remotes so that you can not get anywhere near him is not an issue at all. If spamming them is not an issue then there should not be a single scout that cares if remotes operate like every other piece of equipment and does not resupply without a suit change. No other equipment can be stocked with a nanohive and other equipment is not even a weapon. As opposed to a heavy on a tower with a forge gun? Or a Commando on a tower with a Thales? Being up that high still limits your field of influence with REs, unlike the forge gunner or even someone tossing grenades. As a whole that kind of play is an issue, and it is a larger problem than just because of one piece of equipment. You can always tell a Millford Minja
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 937	Posted - 2014.09.21 02:01:00 - [17] - Quote check my signature for REs video. Please support fair play!
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 646	Posted - 2014.09.21 03:27:00 - [18] - Quote REs that hide beneath the null cannon need to be fixed. Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 527	Posted - 2014.09.21 05:52:00 - [19] - Quote They should do damage roughly equivalent to a core locus grenade. Say 550 explosive damage with 5 range at basic, 700 with 6 range at proto. You still could wreck house with them but they wouldn't just erase enemies like they do now.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 64	Posted - 2014.09.21 08:48:00 - [20] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: RE's should be AV only. This would fix every problems we all have with it. Now scouts have KN, shotguns and cloaks to sneak behind a team and one shot peoples. They also have a grenade slot, so why would they need RE's if these werent OP at the moment? Sentinels Traps Destroying large swathes of equipment. Wolfpacks Mosh pits Remote Explosives are useful on variety of occasions. The only other equipment that benefits a scout are. Uplinks Scanner I know it's not the topic of this thread but do they really need a 2nd equipment slot? Sentinels: throw a grenade/ KN it/ Shotgun it Traps: Run arround your enemies, be smarter than your target and kill it in the back instead of pressing a button.. Destroying equipments: throw a grenade and it will work as well. Wolfpacks/Mosh pits: Again, throw a grenade in the middle of the pack, try to get close to them. A scout isn't supposed to rush the enemy team in the front line in order to throw a Re and have easy kill. It's supposed to be smarter than the enemy, in order to kill them in their back without beeing spotted. Then prehaps your problem is wkth scouts not the RE. In reality RE's are only effective against dumb or immobile players. The Sentinel running round a corner looking for an eaay kill. The wolfpack jammed into a door way 3 a breast with no-one watching their six. The Logi running 5m behind his dog. If your problem is with Scouts running directly through fire and tossing a momentum boosted RE into the midst of your team. Your question should not be about how the RE needs nerfing to stop it being used like that, because you can't FAIRLY do that without screwing anyone who uses RE's legitimately. You should instead be asking, why are scouts capable of being used like that, to which the answer is considerably simpler. Dodgy Hit boxes Overpowered eWAR Tanked Scouts having to much eHP. Scouts do have important issues and I totally agree with you on this point. Now I think that the combo RE's+ cloaked scout is the real problem. No other suit can throw a charge that deals enormous ammount of damage with a bugged radius (way more than 5 sometimes) while beeing cloaked. Other suits would get spotted instantly and it wouldnt be as effective. Now, if you try to see Dust in a global way, what is the place of Re's in it? The only legitimate use of it is to be plant on a point in order to protect it from unaware enemies. Except this reason, Proxy's do a way better job against vehicles than Re's, and they are 90% of the time, used as insta kill cheap grenades. As I said in another thread, the timer mechanic is broken. The 4secs you have to wait doesnt change anything as the timer begins when you throw the Re, not when it reaches the ground. So most of the time, even when you pay attention to scouts, you see the Re flying at you, you start running, but it explodes so fast that you're already dead. So I'd say OP because: it explodes way too fast, can be thrown from a really good distance (check the John Psi video), deals huge ammount of damage even at basic lvl, has a bugged radius, can be refilled by nanohives, and also, can be activated after death. Sorry for my bad english ^^

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1182	Posted - 2014.09.21 09:11:00 - [21] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: deezy dabest wrote: One Eyed King wrote: That isn't an issue because you cannot have more than 3 or 4 active at the same time. Using them after your max is redundant. I don't know where people are seeing REs as a problem. They are not as pervasive as they were before the bleedout detonation was a thing, and with the increased activation time, you really have to be not paying attention in order for them to kill you. So start paying attention. A scout standing on the high ground with a hive dropping remote after remote is surely not a problem. A scout that just stands around the corner throwing out remotes ensuring you can not get anywhere near him even after you shoot his remotes so that you can not get anywhere near him is not an issue at all. If spamming them is not an issue then there should not be a single scout that cares if remotes operate like every other piece of equipment and does not resupply without a suit change. No other equipment can be stocked with a nanohive and other equipment is not even a weapon. As opposed to a heavy on a tower with a forge gun? Or a Commando on a tower with a Thales? Being up that high still limits your field of influence with REs, unlike the forge gunner or even someone tossing grenades. As a whole that kind of play is an issue, and it is a larger problem than just because of one piece of equipment. A forge gun requires charging and accuracy,a thales requires accuracy. Once the forge or thales user misses they must realign/recharge. REs on the otherhand can still be used after they miss. Do 1000 plus damage in a fairly large range. REs can kill groups all at once,forge and thales can't with any great effect. You must reload forge and thales,REs you do not. Forge and thales are weapons,that means you're only left with sidearms to defend yourself. REs are equipment,which means you keep both weapons. Forges and thales give away the users position,REs do not. REs are equipment,yet refill at hives. Jumping and throwing REs allows you to throw them 10m or more. When was the last time you saw a forge or thales user jumping to increase their range and killing potential? The answer is never. This is a OHK device we are talking about here,it needs to be reigned in by a dramatic amout. Also,in reference to the 'high up' part of your post: Toss a grenade from the tall buildings surrounding A in the middle of the street under the table top,in domination. Notice something? It explodes before it reaches the bottom. Now do it with REs. Notice the difference? It makes it all the way to the ground without exploding. This is horribly broken. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1305	Posted - 2014.09.21 13:27:00 - [22] - Quote Confiming that the only problem is still the too short activation delay. The slight increase in some previous fix was far too little. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Tectonic Fusion 2229	Posted - 2014.09.21 17:24:00 - [23] - Quote I haven't been killed by remotes since a few months ago. When I did, it's because they flanked me and I was standing still like a noob, which is okay since they would have killed me anyway if they had nova knives or a plasma cannon. (GIF)
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 64	Posted - 2014.09.21 18:06:00 - [24] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: I haven't been killed by remotes since a few months ago. When I did, it's because they flanked me and I was standing still like a noob, which is okay since they would have killed me anyway if they had nova knives or a plasma cannon. I belive you havent play Dust for a few months^^ There are explosive remote users at every single games. And sometimes even if you see the scout throwong the re, it explodes so fast that running doesnt change a sh!t^^ Sorry for my bad english ^^


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