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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
4995
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Posted - 2014.09.19 14:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
I hate to play the Isk card, but I'd be concerned with the sustainability of the pilot's role if 1/2M vehicles were too easily destroyed.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
4995
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Posted - 2014.09.19 14:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Antoin Vargaro wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:I hate to play the Isk card, but I'd be concerned with the sustainability of the pilot's role if 1/2M vehicles were too easily destroyed.
There's that word ("easily") again! If vehicle users would stop slipping that word into the equation, maybe we could have a reasonable discussion about this! Can someone please point me to a single post from any AV user that ever said it should be "easy"?
PS: Prof(5) Swarmer (not a pilot)
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
4999
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Posted - 2014.09.19 15:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:
Commandos remove/reduce the primary weakness of the Swarm Launcher fit (being able to fit a second light weapon) means that Swarm fits should really, if serious about the idea of AV, be in a Commando. I think I've wandered off topic...
I agree with everything you've said, up to this point.
Firstly, this represents an unreasonable SP tax on infantry. Each and every infantry unit is vulnerable to being farmed by HAV or ADS. To require that each and every infantry unit cross-train as a commando to shoot back effectively is unreasonable. Do we tell all newbros to first skill into commando to have a fighting chance against pilots?
Secondly, this standard isn't applied elsewhere. I needn't run my Scout mk.0 to use Nova Knives effectively; in fact, I prefer to use them on a Scout gk.0. I haven't invested a single point of SP into Amarr Assaut, yet I've killed several thousand mercs with a Scrambler Rifle.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
5000
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Posted - 2014.09.19 17:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:A tank or ADS can run away from my forge suit with no problems, not so with a scout and a swarm launcher.
Not the case. Vehicles on the run travel much faster than 10 m/sec.
- Scout w/Swarm Launcher
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
5005
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Posted - 2014.09.19 18:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:I'd like to see the cost of vehicles drastically reduced. This would end the ISK argument which has SOME validity.
My view is that vehicles do spend more SP and more ISK than AV, they deserve an advantage, but the magnitude of the advantage should be small. The difference between STD and Proto in ISK is like 50X yet the advantage is like 10%. A 5X ISK expenditure of vehicles over AV shouldn't get them a 200% advantage, just a small one, and I think that is where we are.
I'm not sure that we can describe as "slight" the advantage an ADS or HAV has over a Swarmer. Perhaps this will become the case after Delta. We'll see.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
5110
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Posted - 2014.09.22 13:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:RayRay James wrote:Currently, it is possible for a single player to solo a single vehicle given proper skills and situations. I should know, I do it sometimes.
Unfortunately, the only current way to do that requires a forge gun. Swarms (pre buff) and PLC are just not capable of doing that. The thing is, I'm not sure they should. Forge is a heavy weapon, the rest are light. Heavy weapons should be a major threat to all vehicles. Light's should need at least two people, imo.
As an ADS pilot, I have lost ships to Swarms and Forges, never to a PLC. When I lose a ship to swarms, it's my own fault though for either not paying attention or being cocky. When I lose a ship to forges, it's usually either a skilled forger or he bounced me into a building.
I don't think that milita level AV should be able to kill anything that is fit better than militia by its self, other wise there's no reason to skill into the higher tiers of weaponry, but if someone invests the time and SP into getting proto forges/swarms/plc then they should be able to lay down the pain to vehicles.
I agree. When someone is a Heavy AV player they are sacrificing mobility and a lot of anti infantry capability to take out vehicles so it seems about right that a heavy with damage mods and a good forge gun be able to take out a tank. Light weapons should be able to disrupt vehicles and if they team up take them out.
Which is tougher to kill?
* A low-mobility 1000HP Forge Heavy with a decent SMG or MagSec.
* A high-mobility 300HP Scout with Proto Swarms and a decent SMG or MagSec.
Point being, mobility isn't the only consideration.
The biggest problem with the "should need two people" defense is that two or more Light AVers quite often engage vehicles simultaneously to no avail. I've observed half an enemy team trying to take down an ADS with swarms. I've personally sync'd strikes with another high proficiency swarmer after getting the drop on a preoccupied ADS. In both cases, the only way the ADS will lose is if he's poorly fit or poorly piloted.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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