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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna
Dark Taboo
3087
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Posted - 2014.09.18 11:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hotfix delta is the next upcoming patch that will address a multitude of things, such as light weapons, av, snipers, and sidearms, but to me the most important things within this patch are sidearms and light weapons.
It seems to me that CCP has yet again missed the opportunity to really balance sidearms and light weapons, don't get my wrong on paper we have a very solid balance and it looks very good. But the most prominent issue with this balance that rarely gets looked at is how effective each weapon is outside of their intended range, this issue is what makes or breaks short range weapons and what makes long range weapons OP. When this balance is not met, as it is now, it allows for weapons to be over effective for example the rail rifle.
A simplified comparison of the rail rifle and assault rifle, the rail rifle does not reflect every long range weapon out there but it does reflect the effectiveness of long range vs short range weaponry.
Rail rifle: 400 DPS
Pros:
long range
Low hip fire dispersion (what needs to be fixed)
Low kick for assault
Cons:
High kick for the normal variant
Assault rifle: 450 DPS
Pros:
Low hip fire dispersion (although higher than the rr)
Low kick
Cons:
Short range
When comparing the assault rifle and rail rifle you can see that you can overcome all of the "cons" of an AR by using an aRR while getting all the positives of both for a miniscule sacrifice of 50 DPS (slightly over 10%). This creates bad balance between the two, along with the combat rifle, when you can be effective within all ranges while short range weapons are stuck at short range WITH NO UPSIDES FOR THAT. You cannot use an AR whatsoever outside of 40 meters, it is useless and ineffective past it's range; but any weapon with longer range be it a CR or a SCR is extremely effective from range 1 to its specific range.
I have written many posts concerning this issue since the release of the CR and RR and this issue has yet to be addressed and will remain an issue as it continues to be ignored.
It is a simple proposal that will bring a lot of balance to the game from the tweak of a few numbers, this can be fixed in two ways:
1) Increase the DPS (again) of short ranged weapons; 10% DPS is not a fair trade off for the extreme benefit an extra 40 or even 10 meters provides. They would require possibly a 15% buff to damage. This route would turn (as I've said jokingly) the AR into a mini balacs GAR, unfortunately this is the route that must take if long range weapons will not be addressed.
2) Decrease the short ranged effectiveness of long ranged weapons, this is not merely just an increase of dispersion increases but a combination of increases to hipfire: kick and dispersion. This is by far the best approach to fixing the issue. Unfortunately this would require changing the values for every weapon which is a lot of work on CCPs part which is why fix 1) is an option.
I expect the bolt pistol to be the next big thing. Why? Because it has extremely high alpha and currently it has good stats for cqc and it has the best range. The ion pistol will be decent but it will not live up to the longer ranged sidearms because they will also be extremely effective at short range.
The same can be said for the AR, and maybe the breach, in delta.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna
Dark Taboo
3087
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Posted - 2014.09.18 11:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Snip for humanity Some of these issues will be addressed in Delta, measured and then maybe changed again for Echo
Yes that would be fantastic it has been too long!
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna
Dark Taboo
3087
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:AR optimal range is 50m and 70m effective. The only thing limiting it is the lack of a scope.
400 dps on the RR with a smaller clip, the inability to feather your fire are not to be overlooked. You lose a lot of dps that way.
The assault RR is terrible. The lack of a scope, no increase in clip size or ammo, and the less range aren't enough to make me choose it over the regular RR.
The problem with the AR is the same problem people have with blasters in eve. If you're not running speed mods then you won't be able to make proper use of the weapon. I'll run an AR on a gal assault fitted with all damage mods and use a kincat with ferroscale or reactive plates. I'll bring a needle but I recommend using a scanner.
Highly mobile dps platform with enough hp to outlast anyone you find with the scanner and enough speed to run away when you need to. It's very effective on cqc maps
It is 40 meters, after 40 meters damage begins to drop off. Actually the aRR is a very good weapon, I use it in place of the AR because of how good it is, even on a pro gallente assault I find the aRR a much better weapon. When it comes to damage in the clip the aRR is very lacking but very solid in every other aspect.
The problem with the AR is not that you cannot bring the damage to the people it is that when you are in battle you are not anymore effective than they are at your specific range limits. While outside your range limits they always remain more effective than you.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna
Dark Taboo
3087
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 12:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jack 3enimble wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:AR optimal range is 50m and 70m effective. The only thing limiting it is the lack of a scope.
400 dps on the RR with a smaller clip, the inability to feather your fire are not to be overlooked. You lose a lot of dps that way.
The assault RR is terrible. The lack of a scope, no increase in clip size or ammo, and the less range aren't enough to make me choose it over the regular RR.
The problem with the AR is the same problem people have with blasters in eve. If you're not running speed mods then you won't be able to make proper use of the weapon. I'll run an AR on a gal assault fitted with all damage mods and use a kincat with ferroscale or reactive plates. I'll bring a needle but I recommend using a scanner.
Highly mobile dps platform with enough hp to outlast anyone you find with the scanner and enough speed to run away when you need to. It's very effective on cqc maps It's sad people are still knocking the rail rifle down with range and power arguments, but never notice: clipsize ammo capacity kick ROF Charge up time (cant control it by bursting) Also the fact that it's the racial weapon of a shield suit that according to those same people is not supposed to brawl at close range but fight at range. The Galente are short range brawlers. The AR is devastating at close range on a brawler suit like a rep tank Gal assault. Seeing short range on the AR as design flaw is not valid because the AR is a short range weapon. Now the AR could use some extra range, but to compare it to the RR is not right because both weapons are designed to do completely different things. I would compare the AR to the CR I guess the RR QQ continues not matter what..
I only compare the AR with the RR because it is much easier to show how good a longer ranged weapon is compared to a short ranged weapon when it comes to pros and cons. I can, to the same effect, do this by comparing the CR and AR but because I use the RR and not the CR I find doing this much easier and to lesser bias.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna
Dark Taboo
3087
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 20:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Another con for the RR is it's effectiveness on cal scouts, yes I only notice in on cal scouts but you can tell when all you get is shield indicator and nothing else, I don't have this problem with the AR.
While I'm here I think the bar should be switched back to a 7 round burst.
This is not a con of just the RR but of all Rail weapons. It seems that sometimes shots do not register a lot which is very frustrating when you lay down an entire clip and no damage is done.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna
Dark Taboo
3088
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 20:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:50% Sea
50% Weed
100% potato
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna
Dark Taboo
3088
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 12:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
CUSE TOWN333 wrote:Jack 3enimble wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:AR optimal range is 50m and 70m effective. The only thing limiting it is the lack of a scope.
400 dps on the RR with a smaller clip, the inability to feather your fire are not to be overlooked. You lose a lot of dps that way.
The assault RR is terrible. The lack of a scope, no increase in clip size or ammo, and the less range aren't enough to make me choose it over the regular RR.
The problem with the AR is the same problem people have with blasters in eve. If you're not running speed mods then you won't be able to make proper use of the weapon. I'll run an AR on a gal assault fitted with all damage mods and use a kincat with ferroscale or reactive plates. I'll bring a needle but I recommend using a scanner.
Highly mobile dps platform with enough hp to outlast anyone you find with the scanner and enough speed to run away when you need to. It's very effective on cqc maps It's sad people are still knocking the rail rifle down with range and power arguments, but never notice: clipsize ammo capacity kick ROF Charge up time (cant control it by bursting) Also the fact that it's the racial weapon of a shield suit that according to those same people is not supposed to brawl at close range but fight at range. The Galente are short range brawlers. The AR is devastating at close range on a brawler suit like a rep tank Gal assault. Seeing short range on the AR as design flaw is not valid because the AR is a short range weapon. Now the AR could use some extra range, but to compare it to the RR is not right because both weapons are designed to do completely different things. I would compare the AR to the CR I guess the RR QQ continues not matter what.. pretty much all this^^^ the Rail Rifle is utter crap right now and these noobs who run around out in the open want to see it nerfed again. i have a maxed caldari assault and i hardly ever put the rail rifle on the suit in PC cause its the worst rifle.
That's because PC is dominated by something else. Prior to scouts and heavies the RR dominated PC. And it's not about nerfing just the RR the idea is that short ranged weapons, mainly the AR font bring enough to the table because longer ranged weapons are so good at short range. An AR shouldn't compete at long range and such a RR or CR or even the SCR shouldn't compete in short range.
And again before anybody tags this as a nerf the RR thread I only compare the RR because I use the gun it is my second favorite gun, and I know from experience it is to good at short range. It's short range should be reduced and it's long range kept the same or maybe even buffed.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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