DUST Search - Scouts! Still no reason to be an Assault

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

Scouts! Still no reason to be an Assault

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 867	Posted - 2014.09.15 13:42:00 - [1] - Quote just a simple idea.. remove 1 equipment slot from light/scout suits so they can still use their crutch or RE (not both) and give assaults the second Equipment slot since they are supposed to be the Versatile Suit.. and modify cpu and pg accordingly. ps. no this isnt a troll thread i am wanting to hear feedback on this idea, and keep flames to a minimum my flame proof boxers are in the laundry. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Atiim 12159	Posted - 2014.09.15 14:18:00 - [2] - Quote The only way I could see Assaults being balanced against Logistics when they have 2 Equipment slots is if all Logistics had 4 Equipment slots across each tier. Though I think the latter should happen regardless. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1813	Posted - 2014.09.15 14:40:00 - [3] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: just a simple idea.. remove 1 equipment slot from light/scout suits so they can still use their crutch or RE (not both) and give assaults the second Equipment slot since they are supposed to be the Versatile Suit.. and modify cpu and pg accordingly. ps. no this isnt a troll thread i am wanting to hear feedback on this idea, and keep flames to a minimum my flame proof boxers are in the laundry. If you don't want people to take this as a flame thread perhaps you should avoid antagonistic language like calling the cloak a crutch. You've alreeady thown the first punch and your essentially asking scouts to not punch you back, which is silly. As to your idea your idea I don't think removing the second equipment slot from scouts will reduce their ability to assault. Honestly most dual tanked assault scouts don't use both equipment slots as it is thanks to the PG/CPU requirements of all those plates and extenders they are fitting. The larger issue with scouts and the game in general right now is how powerful ewar is, which gives scouts a massive leg up on every other suit in the game. Changes to ewar are going to be the only way we truly balance scouts. Now with more evil.
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 80	Posted - 2014.09.15 15:00:00 - [4] - Quote Just remove 1 slot from scout and leave the rest as is. If you give assault 2 slots then they would be tanked logis. Then there's no point in logis. 37 kills with nova knives
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12196	Posted - 2014.09.15 15:12:00 - [5] - Quote Honestly... At this point I'm observing, trying to figure out what the best solution is. I think removing the extra equipment from scouts could be a start. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4883	Posted - 2014.09.15 15:23:00 - [6] - Quote A few examples of things Scouts do: * Infiltrate / Uplink * Infiltrate / Recon * Infiltrate / Hack + Booby-Trap Many Scoutly jobs involve equipment. Cloak was intended to help Scouts do their jobs (not replace their jobs). Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 880	Posted - 2014.09.15 17:08:00 - [7] - Quote Atiim wrote: The only way I could see Assaults being balanced against Logistics when they have 2 Equipment slots is if all Logistics had 4 Equipment slots across each tier. Though I think the latter should happen regardless. i agree.. since we already risk soo much in low eHP slow suits to provide a level of presence and/or force multiplier for the team as a logi player. edit and perhaps to balance that maybe remove the sidearm from amarr logi. give standard logi suit a little more pg and cpu as they seem to have a nice amount left over.. and the main problem is advanced.. they tend to be really tight on cpu and pg when fit with a full loadout of advanced gear and have to make more sacrifices then proto level have to.. and going form 3E slots to 4 Eslots feels weird too will probably be even more weird when i try my alt amarr logi with proto suit and sidearm+4 E slots [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 880	Posted - 2014.09.15 17:09:00 - [8] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: A few examples of things Scouts do: * Infiltrate / Uplink * Infiltrate / Recon * Infiltrate / Hack + Booby-Trap Point being, many Scoutly jobs involve equipment. Scouts performed these jobs (albeit poorly) before cloak was introduced. In the weeks prior to cloak's release, Scouts were concerned that it'd replace -- rather than improve upon -- existing battlefield roles. CCP Remnant explained that cloak was intended to help Scouts do their jobs, not replace their jobs. like i said they would still have 1 equipment slot so they still get to use their Crutch ontop of their op suits :P [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 880	Posted - 2014.09.15 17:11:00 - [9] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Just remove 1 slot from scout and leave the rest as is. If you give assault 2 slots then they would be tanked logis. Then there's no point in logis. well logi have up to 4 slots but you are right they would be Assault medics.. a bit like how some players have already mentioned they run logi equipment on scout suits cause it does it better or something. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 880	Posted - 2014.09.15 17:15:00 - [10] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: just a simple idea.. remove 1 equipment slot from light/scout suits so they can still use their crutch or RE (not both) and give assaults the second Equipment slot since they are supposed to be the Versatile Suit.. and modify cpu and pg accordingly. ps. no this isnt a troll thread i am wanting to hear feedback on this idea, and keep flames to a minimum my flame proof boxers are in the laundry. If you don't want people to take this as a flame thread perhaps you should avoid antagonistic language like calling the cloak a crutch. You've alreeady thown the first punch and your essentially asking scouts to not punch you back, which is silly. As to your idea your idea I don't think removing the second equipment slot from scouts will reduce their ability to assault. Honestly most dual tanked assault scouts don't use both equipment slots as it is thanks to the PG/CPU requirements of all those plates and extenders they are fitting. The larger issue with scouts and the game in general right now is how powerful ewar is, which gives scouts a massive leg up on every other suit in the game. Changes to ewar are going to be the only way we truly balance scouts. indeed but bittervet and normal player alike have already claimed that cloak is a crutch, more so because there is no delay to attack when decloaking and then melting some ones face in 1-2 shots and them dieing while the scout is still effectively invisible cloak mechanics themselves need to be like.. 1 to 3 seconds decloak delay before they are able to attack a player ( keeps in with EVE-O lore and actual mechanics too) scouts on higher end players have also stated they prefer running as a Logi-LITE sometimes as it seems to be better then running a normal logi suit... so i could go as far as to say scout suit is still a reason to not use assault.. and quickly becomming a problem for Logi suits too. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3125	Posted - 2014.09.15 17:34:00 - [11] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: just a simple idea.. remove 1 equipment slot from light/scout suits so they can still use their crutch or RE (not both) and give assaults the second Equipment slot since they are supposed to be the Versatile Suit.. and modify cpu and pg accordingly. Caldari and Amarr assault chiming in here... I don't hate this idea. Either that, or provide a minor penalty to the cloak; I like the idea of disabling sprint while cloaked. After Delta launches, which will make sidearms more viable, eliminate the light weapon slot from scouts and give them two sidearms instead. He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4885	Posted - 2014.09.15 19:09:00 - [12] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: A few examples of things Scouts do: * Infiltrate / Uplink * Infiltrate / Recon * Infiltrate / Hack + Booby-Trap Point being, many Scoutly jobs involve equipment. Scouts performed these jobs (albeit poorly) before cloak was introduced. In the weeks prior to cloak's release, Scouts were concerned that it'd replace -- rather than improve upon -- existing battlefield roles. CCP Remnant explained that cloak was intended to help Scouts do their jobs, not replace their jobs. like i said they would still have 1 equipment slot so they still get to use their Crutch ontop of their op suits :P I'll probably kick myself for asking, but what makes you think that Scouts are OP at the moment? Seems to me that (1) scout usage is in decline compared to previous post-1.8 builds, (2) more often than not there is a healthy mix of suits on the field, (3) assault lite (brick tanked scouts) usage is down as per Rattati, and (4) the weekly and monthly KDRs of "really good" slayer Scouts are lower than those of their Assault and Heavy counterparts. What is your basis for the claim that Scouts are over-powered or over-performing? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 885	Posted - 2014.09.15 19:26:00 - [13] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: A few examples of things Scouts do: * Infiltrate / Uplink * Infiltrate / Recon * Infiltrate / Hack + Booby-Trap Point being, many Scoutly jobs involve equipment. Scouts performed these jobs (albeit poorly) before cloak was introduced. In the weeks prior to cloak's release, Scouts were concerned that it'd replace -- rather than improve upon -- existing battlefield roles. CCP Remnant explained that cloak was intended to help Scouts do their jobs, not replace their jobs. like i said they would still have 1 equipment slot so they still get to use their Crutch ontop of their op suits :P I'll probably kick myself for asking, but what makes you think that Scouts are OP at the moment? Seems to me that (1) scout usage is in decline compared to previous post-1.8 builds, (2) more often than not there is a healthy mix of suits on the field, (3) assault lite (brick tanked scouts) usage is down as per Rattati, and (4) the weekly and monthly KDRs of "really good" slayer Scouts are lower than those of their Assault and Heavy counterparts. What is your basis for the claim that Scouts are over-powered or over-performing? 1 yes they have a little but with their ability of an already low db meaning most people would ahve to run a presision enhancer to see scouts who dont run ewar, not only that but they still have cloaks and if not running cloaks they can tank just like an assault but have 2 Equip slots. 2 yes and no.. in pub matches yes but in FW and PC the med suit numbers are low as hell compared to heavy and light most of the time the only medium suits are logi and the odd couple die hard assaults 3 idk what they are lookign at but i see alot of Assault - Lite in the evening/night time (GMT so prime time US) 4 idk how meny times it has to be said but usually KDR means nothing when compaired to actual Warpoints which shows they are actually doing more then just killing. now most of what i said is basically what i have experanced AND read.. but even some vet scouts and logi have even said they prefer to run Logi-Lite with scout suits "because its better" so its spilling over from scouts being perhaps better then assaults to scouts being somewhat better then any medium suit type in general [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4888	Posted - 2014.09.15 19:40:00 - [14] - Quote :: kicks self :: Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4112	Posted - 2014.09.15 19:42:00 - [15] - Quote I simply disagree with the premise that scouts are better assaults than assaults now that the assault suits have been buffed. The biggest advantage of cloaks comes at the proto level with the 10 percent dampening. Outside of that cloaks are NOT invisible. They are significantly less visible, but can be seen while moving, and even while stationary. REs cannot be easily used with cloaks as they have a significant delay at all but proto levels, and result in either waiting uncloaked while holding the trigger, or forced to contend with the RE switching animation, which can take a second in and of itself before it lets you effectively trigger the device. All of this gives any aware merc a window of opportunity to dispatch the RE carrying scout before disabling the RE. You speak as if scouts can be all things, and that simply isn't true. They have to make sacrifices, and these sacrifices are where their weaknesses are. If they are stealthy, they can't significantly tank and are squishy. One does not even need to be accurate when shooting at a squishy scout as they die quickly even with poor aim by all but the most skill intensive weapons. If they are heavily tanked, they cannot also be fast AND dampened, and will be readily giving up their most unique advantages and taking on suits that are better able to fight a battle based on HP values. Just because other suits had a very long run between 1.0 and 1.8 where they didn't have to worry about scouts does not mean that scouts are now OP because they are now a threat. Since 1.8, scouts have been nerfed, and will most likely continue necessary adjustments such as dealing with armor tanking. I think that the adjustments you are advocating for are heavy handed and focused on making scouts a non threat as they were in 1.8. That is not balance, that is bias. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3126	Posted - 2014.09.15 19:42:00 - [16] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: :: kicks self :: The scout, he strike himself. This prepares him for making battle love. He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
CharacterNameWasTaken Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2014.09.15 19:51:00 - [17] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: just a simple idea.. remove 1 equipment slot from light/scout suits so they can still use their crutch or RE (not both) and give assaults the second Equipment slot since they are supposed to be the Versatile Suit.. and modify cpu and pg accordingly. ps. no this isnt a troll thread i am wanting to hear feedback on this idea, and keep flames to a minimum my flame proof boxers are in the laundry. i agree but the rr is what needs looking at now that is a crutch like ****** was jewish.
CharacterNameWasTaken Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2014.09.15 19:52:00 - [18] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: just a simple idea.. remove 1 equipment slot from light/scout suits so they can still use their crutch or RE (not both) and give assaults the second Equipment slot since they are supposed to be the Versatile Suit.. and modify cpu and pg accordingly. ps. no this isnt a troll thread i am wanting to hear feedback on this idea, and keep flames to a minimum my flame proof boxers are in the laundry. i agree but the rr is what needs looking at now that is a crutch like ****** was jewish.
Kalante Schiffer xXNatural-DisasterXx 744	Posted - 2014.09.15 20:14:00 - [19] - Quote What assaults need is more stamina, movement, and sprint speed also do more damage. I rather be a fast scout that can get things done quicker and place uplinks. As it stands right now assaults place no significant change in the battle field other than do little damage like a mosquito bite. jiffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffmxfffffffoiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiifvossssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1746	Posted - 2014.09.15 20:21:00 - [20] - Quote Scouts should emphasize speed over health. Double penalties for stacking health on scouts. We could lower their slot counts and keep their PG/CPU the same, meaning they can fit less modules, but also make those fewer modules better. There's a whole bunch of options, it's just choosing one that balances them with other suits that's the challenge. Shoot Scout with yes.

CharacterNameWasTaken Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2014.09.15 20:28:00 - [21] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: just a simple idea.. remove 1 equipment slot from light/scout suits so they can still use their crutch or RE (not both) and give assaults the second Equipment slot since they are supposed to be the Versatile Suit.. and modify cpu and pg accordingly. Caldari and Amarr assault chiming in here... I don't hate this idea. Either that, or provide a minor penalty to the cloak; I like the idea of disabling sprint while cloaked. After Delta launches, which will make sidearms more viable, eliminate the light weapon slot from scouts and give them two sidearms instead. if this is implemented then i should be able to dual weild if not then no one will use scouts anymore.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4122	Posted - 2014.09.15 20:42:00 - [22] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Scouts should emphasize speed over health. Double penalties for stacking health on scouts. We could lower their slot counts and keep their PG/CPU the same, meaning they can fit less modules, but also make those fewer modules better. There's a whole bunch of options, it's just choosing one that balances them with other suits that's the challenge. I have heard Rattati mention having a scout specific penalty to the regular armor plates. I think that would be fair, so long as ferro and reactive plates are left alone as those do not offer enough of an advantage for their use to be a significant problem. He has also discussed moving bonuses to modules only, so there is no passive skill adjustment unless you are using a module of that skill. For example, scouts without dampening mods and level 5 dampening skilled would have the same scan profile as a scout with no skill points in dampening. I would be ok with either of those two changes if they are done correctly. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4891	Posted - 2014.09.15 21:19:00 - [23] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Scouts should emphasize speed over health. Double penalties for stacking health on scouts. We could lower their slot counts and keep their PG/CPU the same, meaning they can fit less modules, but also make those fewer modules better. There's a whole bunch of options, it's just choosing one that balances them with other suits that's the challenge. I have heard Rattati mention having a scout specific penalty to the regular armor plates. I think that would be fair, so long as ferro and reactive plates are left alone as those do not offer enough of an advantage for their use to be a significant problem. He has also discussed moving bonuses to modules only, so there is no passive skill adjustment unless you are using a module of that skill. For example, scouts without dampening mods and level 5 dampening skilled would have the same scan profile as a scout with no skill points in dampening. I would be ok with either of those two changes if they are done correctly. ... so long as there's a need to do so. These measures were discussed as a means by which to cure Assault Lite. As far as we know, Assault Lite has been in remission since Charlie. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
CommanderBolt TerranProtossZerg 1602	Posted - 2014.09.15 22:08:00 - [24] - Quote There is a VERY very good reason to train LEVEL 5 assault. The Scrambler Rifle combined with the Amarr Assault. If you fancy yourself as a bit of a ranged marksman you will absolutely LOVE the combo. Remember you get that bonus even to your low end cheap assault suits. I can't recommend the combination enough. I really love it right now. Having Templar gear helps too ;-) -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7567	Posted - 2014.09.15 22:26:00 - [25] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Scouts should emphasize speed over health. Double penalties for stacking health on scouts. We could lower their slot counts and keep their PG/CPU the same, meaning they can fit less modules, but also make those fewer modules better. There's a whole bunch of options, it's just choosing one that balances them with other suits that's the challenge. I have heard Rattati mention having a scout specific penalty to the regular armor plates. I think that would be fair, so long as ferro and reactive plates are left alone as those do not offer enough of an advantage for their use to be a significant problem. He has also discussed moving bonuses to modules only, so there is no passive skill adjustment unless you are using a module of that skill. For example, scouts without dampening mods and level 5 dampening skilled would have the same scan profile as a scout with no skill points in dampening. I would be ok with either of those two changes if they are done correctly. I like the modules only idea. If forces scouts to actually use their modules rather than just brick tank. Of course the efficacy bonuses would have to be a little bit better than the bonuses we have now just to be healthy. You are using a module slot after all. With that being said, I wish the db rating system was a bit more dynamic. It really needs it. Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2334	Posted - 2014.09.15 22:33:00 - [26] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: just a simple idea.. remove 1 equipment slot from light/scout suits so they can still use their crutch or RE (not both) and give assaults the second Equipment slot since they are supposed to be the Versatile Suit.. and modify cpu and pg accordingly. Caldari and Amarr assault chiming in here... I don't hate this idea. Either that, or provide a minor penalty to the cloak; I like the idea of disabling sprint while cloaked. After Delta launches, which will make sidearms more viable, eliminate the light weapon slot from scouts and give them two sidearms instead. Disabling sprint while cloaked unfairly hurts minmatar and to a lesser extent, amarr scouts. I think that thats a terrible idea, tbh. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 121	Posted - 2014.09.15 22:41:00 - [27] - Quote No. I use all 4 varieties of scout and all 4 varieties of assault.... The assault triumphs over the scout 1 v 1 most of the time, unless the scout uses stealth in a manner to gain an advantage such as high ground or cover.... At any rate, a 1000 armour gal assault with a RR is way more deadly than a scout with a shotgun.... and risks less at that range NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
maluble Espi0nage 64	Posted - 2014.09.16 01:18:00 - [28] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Just remove 1 slot from scout and leave the rest as is. If you give assault 2 slots then they would be tanked logis. Then there's no point in logis. Or take away all racial ewar bonus, prob solved all scouts would have to actually choose betwen hp and ewar. I run min scout and if I want good ewar I cant run any extra hp mods. 3 complex percision enhancers and 2 complex dampeners. Scout's should not have over 400 hp otherwise their not playing the role correctly.
maluble Espi0nage 64	Posted - 2014.09.16 01:22:00 - [29] - Quote I shake my head evertime I see a gal scout tanking 500 armour and still be invisible to scans, and to top it off they are usually running cloak shotty straight easy mode. Makes any ****** scout decent.
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 3	Posted - 2014.09.16 03:30:00 - [30] - Quote What if armor plates caused a penalty to profile dampening? For every suit that is. Dust 5/14



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.