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Kaze Eyrou wrote:

> Gives upto 70m Range (Scout only)

I think it's 100m range. (Caldari Scout)
Fair play, though that means NO armour repair and is unlikely to be on most fits.

> Gives Intel only for a set period of time after intial scan
> Intel includes Locations, Directions of View, Velocity, Height

What you also forgot is that it will tell you if it didn't pick up something, which can arguably be intel.
Very true, however with small FOV of view you can easily miss them anyway giving false negatives.

When I see that, I relay it to my squad to be aware of a cloaked scout.
Sure we can't see his chevron, but we are now on the lookout for cloak shimmer.
Passive scanning on the other hand, can't tell you if there is a dampened scout flanking you/following you and when you think you are safe you get *pick a scout's favorite weapon of choice* from behind.
In reality you should always assume their is someone behind you, I can run round in an Assault suit with NK's and stab people in the back, because all they do is follow the intel, because it's so accurate.

> 2) Passive Scanning needs to be reduced from its current state of Godlike Omnipotence

I think you mean Omniscience.

They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!

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Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3500	Posted - 2014.09.13 00:23:00 - [1] - Quote So there is a lot to discuss, I'm gonna jump right in, however if your too lazy a TL:DR will be provided. Section 1 - The Current Situation, Passive Vs Active Scans So currently there are 2 types of scanning, with one being considerably better than the other. So Let's start by looking at Passive Scanning. *Passive Scanning* Built into Dropsuit Cyberwarfare Suite Gives 360-¦ Scan Gives upto 70m Range (Scout only) Gives as low as 17db (Scout only) Gives 24/7 Intel to Squad Intel includes Locations, Direction of View, Velocity, Height So quite a bit, but now let's look at Active Scanning *Active Scanning* Requires additional Standalone Unit in Equipment Slot Gives at most 90-¦ Scan Angle Gives as low as 15db (Duvolle Focused only) Gives Intel only for a set period of time after intial scan Intel includes Locations, Directions of View, Velocity, Height In case you can tell, the difference between the 2 is huge, passive scanning is BETTER in every possible way, especially for a Scout suit. A scout suit in the middle lf your squad is effectively a walking, talking, shooting active scanner with none of its drawbacks. This needs to be changed. Section 2 - The Proposal In order for eWAR to be both useful yet an important layer of everyday encounters, we need to achieve a few goals with a new system. 1) Active Scanning needs to give BETTER intel than passive (else their is no reason to use it) 2) Passive Scanning needs to be reduced from its current state of Godlike Omnipotence 3) Passive Scanning still needs to be useful So with that in mind here is my proposal. *Passive Scanning* Built into dropsuit Cyber warfare suite Gives 360-¦ Scan Angle Goes as low as 24db (Enough for a Logistics w/ 2+ùPRO 1+ùADV to JUST avoid detection) Goes as far as 70m (Scout Only) Gives Intel as Series of Snapshots (delay between Snapshots are 1,2,4 seconds for L,M,H suits respectively) Gives Intel to Squad Intel includes, Location and Height. Done this way, all but Heavy suits can achieve some form of eWAR, Assaults and Logistics will be capable of slipping under the radar but only if they dedicate the majority of their low slots to dampeners. In addition Passive scans no longer give such rich intel. You only recieve a blip indicating an enemy players location and 3D view chevron indicating the height, in addition this intel is no longer real time, making it potentially wrong the moment you get it, you also have to calculate player speed yourself based on the distance the blip travels per ping. Active Scanning Requires additional stand alone unit in equipment slot Gives as much as much as 270-¦ Viewing Angle (lowest range variant) Goes as far as 100m (Average 75m) Goes as low as 16db (Smallest FOV Variant) Gives Intel in real-time, but only so long as the unit is highlighted by the scanner (stops scannerinas) Gives Intel to Squad Intel includes Location, Height, Direction of View and Velocity In effect the current scanners are turned into magic torches, you get rich intel but only so long as the scanner is actually scanning the player, you do not tag players for any period of time now. This makes active scanning more rewarding, but also more dangerous as you must now keep scanning in order to recieve intel. In addition it removes the use for scannerinas, since doing this simply results in a really bad version of passive scans, that make the offending player VERY vunerable. TL:DR Get Reading Punk They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3072	Posted - 2014.09.13 01:18:00 - [2] - Quote I like supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 978	Posted - 2014.09.13 01:44:00 - [3] - Quote You should have included dampening and cloaks into your post. EWAR should be such that A > B, where A and B is maxed. Active scans > (Dampened + Un-cloaked) > Passive scans > (Dampened + Cloak) As for your active scanner suggestion, I like it. But it's a tad to powerful. Perhaps make it such that the active scanner user is visible to all enemies when using the active scanner to balance it out? What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 839	Posted - 2014.09.13 05:04:00 - [4] - Quote Or, you could save time and just buff active scanners back to a reasonable level. A little more information in the post would be nice too. While active scanners were nerfed a bit too hard, getting that 70m range you mentioned and that exceptionally low scanning profile requires a huge amount of sacrifice on most suits, while that active scanner only requires a single module slot. Nova Knives are best sidearm.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3505	Posted - 2014.09.13 09:48:00 - [5] - Quote medomai grey wrote: You should have included dampening and cloaks into your post. EWAR should be such that A > B, where A and B is maxed. Active scans > (Dampened + Un-cloaked) > Passive scans > (Dampened + Cloak) As for your active scanner suggestion, I like it. But it's a tad too powerful. Perhaps make it such that the active scanner user is visible to all enemies when using the active scanner to balance it out? I was thinking of adding an operational charge time, like how the cloak works. Don't forget the player has to continually scan, so he can't fight back while he is broadcasting intel. But adding a signature penalty might make things more interesting. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3505	Posted - 2014.09.13 09:56:00 - [6] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: Or, you could save time and just buff active scanners back to a reasonable level. A little more information in the post would be nice too. While active scanners were nerfed a bit too hard, getting that 70m range you mentioned and that exceptionally low scanning profile requires a huge amount of sacrifice on most suits, while that active scanner only requires a single module slot. This is true, but considering you get, an empty equipmemt slot module 24/7 360-¦ Scans Depending on your target it's potentially worth it. Don't forget scouts have such a low prescion that with just one precision enhancer, you can scan all medium and heavy suits, irrespective of any logical amount of dampening. Further more with scanning 5 and 1pro range extender you get 40m, which is more than enough for most close combat engagements, while still weilding your weapon. No matter how much you buff scanners, a walking scanner in the middle of your wolfpack, that can fire at the enemy, will always be better. Their is no 'quick fix' to this eWAR needs to be done again from the ground up. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Haerr Legio DXIV 1367	Posted - 2014.09.13 10:13:00 - [7] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: TL:DR Get Reading Punk After having reread the TL;DR, as per instructions in the TL;DR, I still haven't got the slightest of what this thread is about. Therefor I will randomly bump and like a thread in a random part of the forum to compensate. Update to follow.
Haerr Legio DXIV 1367	Posted - 2014.09.13 10:14:00 - [8] - Quote And done.
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 608	Posted - 2014.09.13 11:38:00 - [9] - Quote Remove scanning altogether, stop listening to music while playing, learn to use your eyes, ears, and common sense again. This is New Eden. This should be about the hardcore experience. Scanning is for scrubs. Scouts are easy mode. // @JebusMcKing
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1127	Posted - 2014.09.13 14:35:00 - [10] - Quote There should be no shared passive scans, cloaks should have a dampening penalty. Because, that's why.

medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 980	Posted - 2014.09.13 15:54:00 - [11] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Remove scanning altogether, stop listening to music while playing, learn to use your eyes, ears, and common sense again. This is New Eden. This should be about the hardcore experience. Scanning is for scrubs. = bricked tanked cloaked scouts going unchecked because Jebus McKing lacks the ability to take a step back and see the bigger picture. Oh, and dampening become pointless. What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y Dark Taboo 213	Posted - 2014.09.13 16:17:00 - [12] - Quote I say just get rid of scans all together, in most games it's kinda cheating to be able to see your enemies THROUGH THE WALLS G.L.O.R.Y solider, Master of the Heavy (Amarr & Gallente)
Joel II X Kool Kids Klub VIP 3403	Posted - 2014.09.13 17:01:00 - [13] - Quote I like it, but 270-¦ is a bit too much, in my opinion. I'd make the Proximity Scanner give as much as your field of view which should be, what, 160ish-¦ maybe a bit less?
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3505	Posted - 2014.09.13 19:35:00 - [14] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I like it, but 270-¦ is a bit too much, in my opinion. I'd make the Proximity Scanner give as much as your field of view which should be, what, 160ish-¦ maybe a bit less? I considered that, but of course if it was 270-¦ it would have some downsides to it. It would have one of the worst precision profiles and only a 30m range. It would function as a CQC scanner for breaching teams or close quarters defence. But the lack of range and precision makes it eaay for scouts or fast players to reposition, by the time you realise your being flanked it's too late to react. Then by the other stretch you have more focused scanners, which are designed to catch everything but the MOST dampened of scouts, at as far as 70m, but with only 30-¦ FOV you have to choose which targets need to be tracked, you'll have a hard time catching them all. In effect Active Scanning becomes a full time role and best achieved with logis who can pair 2 scanners together for potentially devastating Intel bursts. All the while the logi can still use his spare 2 slots to fill a different role, although while he is dojng one he cannot do the other. This in turn gives logis an added depth, especially if you begin adding in active dampeners, deployable scanning arrays and other eWAR associated equipment. Meanwhile the Scout, wih their passive scan ability can use the limited intel from the scanner to choose the best units to highlight, allowing the to compete with logis for the role. Between a Scout and a Logi you can now achieve upto 5 different roles. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 616	Posted - 2014.09.13 21:22:00 - [15] - Quote > Gives upto 70m Range (Scout only) I think it's 100m range. (Caldari Scout) > Gives Intel only for a set period of time after intial scan > Intel includes Locations, Directions of View, Velocity, Height What you also forgot is that it will tell you if it didn't pick up something, which can arguably be intel. When I see that, I relay it to my squad to be aware of a cloaked scout. Sure we can't see his chevron, but we are now on the lookout for cloak shimmer. Passive scanning on the other hand, can't tell you if there is a dampened scout flanking you/following you and when you think you are safe you get pick a scout's favorite weapon of choice from behind. > 2) Passive Scanning needs to be reduced from its current state of Godlike Omnipotence I think you mean Omniscience. Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 407	Posted - 2014.09.13 22:40:00 - [16] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: There should be no shared passive scans, cloaks should have a dampening penalty. This, and Minmatar Scouts should get an EWAR passive bonus like all other races. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3506	Posted - 2014.09.13 23:11:00 - [17] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: > Gives upto 70m Range (Scout only) I think it's 100m range. (Caldari Scout) Fair play, though that means NO armour repair and is unlikely to be on most fits. > Gives Intel only for a set period of time after intial scan > Intel includes Locations, Directions of View, Velocity, Height What you also forgot is that it will tell you if it didn't pick up something, which can arguably be intel. Very true, however with small FOV of view you can easily miss them anyway giving false negatives. When I see that, I relay it to my squad to be aware of a cloaked scout. Sure we can't see his chevron, but we are now on the lookout for cloak shimmer. Passive scanning on the other hand, can't tell you if there is a dampened scout flanking you/following you and when you think you are safe you get pick a scout's favorite weapon of choice from behind. In reality you should always assume their is someone behind you, I can run round in an Assault suit with NK's and stab people in the back, because all they do is follow the intel, because it's so accurate. > 2) Passive Scanning needs to be reduced from its current state of Godlike Omnipotence I think you mean Omniscience. I'd say Omnipotence still, I have no proble with people being able to see everyone, more the powerfrom how much you can see right now. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1733	Posted - 2014.09.13 23:12:00 - [18] - Quote Another benefit of passive scans, it doesn not inform you if you have been scanned or not. Shoot Scout with yes.
gustavo acosta Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 251	Posted - 2014.09.13 23:28:00 - [19] - Quote Well to some degree passives should be more powerful than actives because(in a perfect world at least) scouts sacrifice tank to use them. They should change the scout bonus so that there's only an efficiency bonus to E-war(i.e. if you don't wear e-war mods you don't get the benefit of being passively being able to see anything.) Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3506	Posted - 2014.09.13 23:37:00 - [20] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Well to some degree passives should be more powerful than actives because(in a perfect world at least) scouts sacrifice tank to use them. They should change the scout bonus so that there's only an efficiency bonus to E-war(i.e. if you don't wear e-war mods you don't get the benefit of being passively being able to see anything.) No because the logi in my scenario sacrifices more than the scout does. In addition, passive scans are constant. However I agree that scouts should recieve bonuses to eWAR modules, not have better stats outright. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3



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