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Ryme Intrinseca
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1821
   |
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
soulreaper73 wrote:I do not have a pony in this race, but I am curious as to what the ramifications of an independent Scotland would be. If the vote is yes, would that inspire Wales and Northern Ireland to do the same?
Wales - it is highly integrated with England economically and socially, and support for independence is at very low levels.
NI - far less integrated and there is significant support for leaving the UK. Nevertheless there will remain a unionist majority who favour remaining part of the UK, whether Scotland is in it or not. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1821
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:I'd like to see them get independence, but it won't happen. Elaborate? Polls are pretty close. I'm personally dreading the consequences of a 'Yes' vote because apparently British markets have already been nuked to a similar degree to the 2008 crash.
The uncertainty of the independence negotiations would stop UK growth in its tracks until its resolved, which could take years. The consequences for the Scottish economy would be much more severe and long lasting. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1834
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 19:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Immortal John Ripper wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:Immortal John Ripper wrote:How many others are just reading but not posting so they don't sound like an idiot?
Lol, political matters are just not my thing but this particular case is interesting to read about. It is not as pretty and romantic as the people who want it may think. It's going to screw Scotland for the foreseeable future and it's shocking that so many think they are different to those south of the border when we are on a tiny little island. Trust me, a lot of it is based on pipe dreams, right wing rhetoric and day dreamers. All facts have been avoided for the most part. I have heard more intelligent stuff coming from local alcoholics when i was managing a pub lol. I realize that. That is why I am not regurgitating the same crap I am reading here or on google. 1 morning's worth of research does not make me an expert nor would I feel like my opinion would hold much merit. Even less Merit because I am not from scotland nor am I anywhere near there. Geography may not be an excuse for ignorance but that is just how it is. However doesn't mean it doesn't matter to me. Many people are going to be affected by this in one way or another. It is just interesting to know how they would be affected... What are the facts? why do this? what are the benefits? What are the cons?
I will give some socio-economic facts 
Scotland has an 8.4% share of UK population. 9.3% of UK public spending is in Scotland, so it spends more -ú per head. For the latest period with published figures (2012-13) it contributed 9.1% of tax revenues, including its revenues from its geographic share of oil and gas. So Scotland received marginally more than it contributed in the last year.
UK and Scottish growth are between 2.5% and 3% per year, with unemployment around 7%. This compares highly favourably with the Eurozone (France, Germany, Italy, Spain, etc), which has 0.1% growth and unemployment of 11.5%. The relative stability of the British -ú is one of the drivers of the Scottish economy.
Scotland's economy is highly integrated with that of the rest of the UK. 70% of Scotland's exports are to the rest of the UK (rUK). Therefore, there is a great economic benefit to being in a common currency area with the rUK, as is presently the case within the UK. This benefit would probably be lost on independence (all UK parties are opposed to a currency union in the event of independence), and Scottish exporters would suffer transaction costs and reduced competitiveness in their primary market.
As part of the UK, Scotland has wide access to overseas markets through organizations such as the EU and the WTO. Scottish entry to these organizations would have to be negotiated on independence. This may prove to be impossible. For instance, entry to the EU requires unanimity among current members, including the UK and Spain, which is motivated to deter its own secessionist movements. Even were Scotland to enter the EU, it would have to agree to accept the troubled Euro as its currency.
The UK is presently ruled by the centre-right Conservative party. Scotland is traditionally more left-leaning. The Conservatives are hated by many in Scotland. One longstanding source of resentment is the introduction of the despised Poll Tax in Scotland in 1989, prior to its introduction elsewhere in the UK (the tax has long since been repealed).
Though control over the National Health Service, along with many other public services, is devolved to the Scottish Parliament, the Scottish National Party (SNP) claim that they are threatened with privatization by the Conservatives. This claim has never really been explained. Indeed, the SNP presently control the NHS in Scotland as they have a majority in the Scottish Parliament, and have (ironically) themselves privatized parts of the health service.
A big part of the appeal of independence is the (supposed) opportunity to create a 'fairer' Scotland. Again, the SNP's claim in this respect is puzzling. They have had the power to increase income tax in Scotland for many years but have never done so. Their only firm tax proposal for an independent Scotland is a reduction in corporation tax, which hardly seems like a move motivated by 'fairness'.
TL;DR Reasons to stay within UK - high level of economic performance, retention of the -ú, continued EU membership, etc. Reasons to leave UK - nationalism I guess? |
Ryme Intrinseca
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1840
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 22:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Solid post, Ryme.
@Spade - his point was that the UK is spending more on Scotland per head than they're spending on England per head, as well as received more from the UK than it gave to the UK. Ah, per head, fair enough. Quote:
I really just don't understand why you'd want to leave the UK. 'Independence' is a romantic concept I suppose, but I just can't see any real world benefits to doing it.
He says with an Irishman reading  If I were Scottish and voting, I reckon I'd vote to leave. I honestly believe Scotland can and should stake it out on their own. Am I right? Who knows. Maybe, maybe not. (Tech says no.)
Of course the irish independence situation was very different, they were repressed by the british and denied basic rights. They basically had to be independent if they wanted a decent future. It was about as far different from the scottish situation - where as i mentioned, scots receive more public spending per person than the english do - as one can imagine.
Of course theres also the other difference that historically the scots werent the victims of the british empire but arguably its keenest proponents and beneficiaries... |
Ryme Intrinseca
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1904
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 06:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
45-55. lolSalmond, git gud scrub |
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