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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4011
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Posted - 2014.09.08 17:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
(Please note that the title is only slightly misleading.)
So, youGÇÖre thinking, what, John Demonsbane wants to nerf drop uplinks? That middling player and forum warrior (now level 4Gäó) who makes improbable claims about tactical logistics and pretends to be good at Dust? The one always going after anyone who wants to go after equipment spam? That guy?
Yes. Yes I do. Hear me out. My premise is that non-logis (or those smug Minmatar logis with their fancy 4 equipment slots at STD and super rep-tools. Hate those guys) are always going to complain about equipment spam and nothing is going to stop them from blaming logis, even though we all know itGÇÖs the logi tourists who put uplinks on scout suits or spawn in with a STD Min logi suit, crap out 12 uplinks and then switch to their burst HMG Sentinel or bricked Gal scout for the rest of the battle who are to blame.
Anyway, IGÇÖm guessing something is going to be done, particularly to uplinks with this crazy spawn grenade idea the CPM has apparently been tossing around (no pun intended). My goal is to manage the impact it has on actual support /tactical logis and maybe make this work in our favor. Since my original proposals ( an inactivation radius, specific uplink skills, etc) are apparently not hot-fixable, I need a new one that hopefully is.
TL;DR: If we are going to nerf equipment, letGÇÖs do it without simultaneously nerfing logis. Proposal in next post.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4011
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Posted - 2014.09.08 17:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
(Note: I am not in front of the needed information, and more importantly, am too lazy to make precise calculations. Use the current numbers as reference.)
Step 1: Nerf uplinks hard. Like back into the stone age, even the flaylock will feel sorry for you hard.
- 30 sec spawns at STD, 15 PRO, 10 sec with the Amarr LP store one.
- Spawn count 3 at STD, 4 ADV, 10 PRO quantum.
That kind of thing, maybe worse (both of the above with slight adjustments for the flux/quantum variants).
Step 2: Massively buff the logi suits.
- Amarr logi gets the same GÇ£with-bonusGÇ¥ performance as now at proto. Again, without going through the math, letGÇÖs aim for Amarr logi level 1 or 2 gets current GÇ£no-bonusGÇ¥ performance, and level 5 gets pretty much what you get at level 5 now, slightly worse would be OK but not my preference.
Obviously, that may not scale properly, so this progression is not set in stone. This would also make it mandatory that the uplink bonus be fixed so that if you die and are re-spawning the bonus still applies. Naturally if you are re-spawning in a non-logi suit, the bonus dies when you do so.
- The rest of the racial logis get major bonuses to uplinks as well. Again, speaking in broad terms, aim for current uplink performance at level 3 or 4, and slightly better than current non-Amarr performance at proto, so they get a little buff to uplinks compared to now. In light of the ongoing discussions about logi bonuses, you could tweak it so that, for example, Caldari get faster spawns but Minmatar get more spawns, or whatever. They should still all get nearly equal to current non-Amarr overall performance eventually though, this would just be an additional perk at higher levels.
-Finally, scouts. Yes, an argument can be made that uplinks are indeed scouty as well. But, letGÇÖs be honest, we donGÇÖt need scouts still doing everything just as well as the other suits. So, I would propose that at level 5, the Amarr scout would get about 75% or so of current GÇ£no-Amarr logi-bonusGÇ¥ uplink performance, and the other scouts get half that.
In summary, what this leaves us with is:
1) Amarr logi stays more or less the same.
2) The other logis can still use reasonably useful uplinks at lower levels, and good ones once they skill up to level 5.
3) Scouts, at higher levels, can still also have functional uplinks.
4) Uplinks will be scheit on other suits. Like cloaks on non-scouts, you can do it, but itGÇÖs not going to work very well. This will reduce spam as nobody is going to bother using a 30 second spawn. This de-incentivizes people who wonGÇÖt be using support minded suits for the majority of the battle: There will be significantly less reward to the start-of-battle uplink spamfest followed by mass exodus to the supply depot.
5) CRUs will have greater tactical value.
6) mCRUGÇÖs will hopefully also make a resurgence and get DS pilots more transport WP. Not sure about spawn WP in this scenario, normally I am in favor of it, but in this case you might want to just buff transport WP instead to include people who spawn and drop without being transported a certain distance.
You could also apply this to nanohives but would have to be less harsh because nanohives are legitimate additions to any suit. I encourage healthy, logical, and non-ragey discussion. AndGǪ Go!
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4013
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Posted - 2014.09.08 19:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Either that or a hard-cap on the number of separate equipment a single player can place. So say it's 7 or 8. That's proto hives, links, and any other proto or ADV you can carry. That should be enough for any single logi to carry on a suit. I'd like to see this done with an "equipment bandwidth" stat. Some suits would have a low stat, others a higher one. So if you swap into a low bandwidth suit the oldest ones you dropped would pop up to your cap. E.g. Logis get 6-8 as you suggest, scouts might get 2-4 assault/commandos 1-3 (based on the suit quality). As far as the OP is concerned, nerfing uplinks to the degree you mention is a recipe for frustration, and painfully long runs from the MCC. I already hear tons of complaints from new players on YouTube that hate how long it takes to spawn. It's not so bad if you're running PRO, have a squad with a needle and reps, but if you're in militia gear getting stomped over and over, this proposal is going to be much more painful. Also your proposal incentivized players running PRO logis spamming links and then hiding in the redline for the rest of the match. At least with bandwidth they can spam a few links and switch to a more useful suit. This would greatly reduce spam.
You don't have to use the proto suit, of course, I use STD and ADV sutis all the time and take advantage of proto bonuses.
Also: If you want to talk people dropping links and then hiding, just wait until they make uplinks disappear completely every time you die or switch suits.
@Resistance: The whole point is to make uplinks less spammy, and CRU''s/mCRUs actually important without making logi suits (particularly Amarr) worthless by nerfing uplinks alone. People are making crazy proposals, like only 1 link per person, every kind of link pops when you die or switch suits, that ridiculous spawn grenade thing... those are going to make spawning at least as painful as this would, and also kill logi suits even more. As for the Min logi, got me there. Could have sworn they had 4.
As for the people who have (and will) propose things that are not hot-fixable, that's not the point here. I have a nunber of ideas of my own that are much much better than this one, but are also not hot-fixable. Those are nice to think about, but if the CPM or CCP are going to go ahead with some bonheaded proposal now via hotfix, all the amazing client-side ideas in the world are null and void.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4015
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Posted - 2014.09.08 21:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
SMH. Where did I say Amarr proto uplinks would have anything even remotely approximating a 30 second spawn?
I invite you to click on my signature link, I have given the use of uplinks just a little bit of thought over the past 18 months. I have literally no interest in making drop uplinks completely useless. Try reading it again. Maybe a little slower this time.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4022
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Posted - 2014.09.09 02:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:snip
Yes. Yes I do. Hear me out. My premise is that non-logis (or those smug Minmatar logis with their fancy 4 equipment slots and super rep-tools. Hate those guys) are always going to complain about equipment spam and nothing is going to stop them from blaming logis, even though we all know itGÇÖs the logi tourists who put uplinks on scout suits or spawn in with a STD Min logi suit, crap out 12 uplinks and then switch to their burst HMG Sentinel or bricked Gal scout for the rest of the battle who are to blame.
snip Message from my Logi ALT: Thank you John Demonsbane your anger sustains me. In defense of "crapping out" uplinks, a high carb and low fruit diet is causing some stoppage so when things get going it's messy.
That's what you get when your diet is 45% rust and duct tape!
(and WTF does everyone act like I'm not a veteran logi and haven't made a career of flinging uplinks out all over the place for well over a year myself? Weird)
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4034
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Posted - 2014.09.09 18:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
John Psi wrote:spam any kind of equipment - cancer.
equipment must not last longer than a suit from which it was launched.
No.
Have fun running from the MCC every time you die, or getting spawncamped all day.
Also: Made edits to the original proposal to be more concrete and gentler nerf.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4036
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Posted - 2014.09.09 19:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dust User wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:
(and WTF does everyone act like I'm not a veteran logi and haven't made a career of flinging uplinks out all over the place for well over a year myself? Weird)
Who are you?
Thank you so much for asking!
I'm a 21 year old female, and looking for good friends to chat or hang out with.
I enjoy long walks on the beach, candlelight dinners, and being naughty.
My sign is Scorpio and my measurements are 36C-24-34.
If you want to get to know me better, text "hottie" to 32864
(Note: Normal messaging and data rates, along with a substantial surcharge may(will) will be added to your mobile bill. You may also get syphillis.)
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4844
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Posted - 2014.12.06 07:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Necromancy!
With BW I think this proposal is probably less important, best to see how that works out first. Particularly if some of the bonuses we've been discussing in cross' support thread pan out.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4844
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Posted - 2014.12.06 14:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:John,
What's your thought on increasing the bandwidth of the uplinks over the current values in Rattati's proposal. Seems like that maybe an other way to approach this.
Currently the highest BW usage belongs to triage hives...seems like a spawn link (basically a wormhole beacon) would have at least that level of BW.
Overall - big fan of looking at more complete bonuses that work across the racial logi lines. Using that method and providing racial incentives based on equipment performance bonuses strikes me as a pretty solid approach given where Logi suits are now.
It is certainly an odd little mishmash of values right now. Personally I don't see why the k-17/D hives have such a high BW requirement, for example. Rattati obviously despises wiyrkomi camping but the k-17s repair rate isn't going to make anyone invincible. Uplinks should be the highest but I thnink are fine where they are, and prox/REs are too high.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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