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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
434
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Posted - 2014.09.08 14:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
So if we swapped the flight ceiling for a simple instant death at a height, people would be less inclines to fly 'too high' to escape av... Would also stop the dogfighting just being a fight to see who can get above the other person.
Would be more interesting than lowering it so you just keep bopping against it at a stupid height, or adding another glitchy redzone timer.
Could say at a certain height you get shot from the war-barge... Or (slightly stupid at the low height of the ceiling) you end up in space and just implode!
I would enjoy the risk... What about everyone else? |
Foundation Seldon
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
736
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Posted - 2014.09.08 14:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think this sounds terrible.
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
1216
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Posted - 2014.09.08 15:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:So if we swapped the flight ceiling for a simple instant death at a height, people would be less inclines to fly 'too high' to escape av... Would also stop the dogfighting just being a fight to see who can get above the other person.
Would be more interesting than lowering it so you just keep bopping against it at a stupid height, or adding another glitchy redzone timer.
Could say at a certain height you get shot from the war-barge... Or (slightly stupid at the low height of the ceiling) you end up in space and just implode!
I would enjoy the risk... What about everyone else?
Derpty is a good pilot, I would not be so quick to disregard this idea.
ADS are OP because they 'sometimes' cannot be caught out as they can retreat to the far side of map OR
In most cases they flight high, above AV targeting and wait for the next chance.. where is the risk in 500m above battles??
An invisible barrier or 'another glitchy red line timer' is just a quick solution involving no reason other than you can't do it
To build on Derptys idea.. I think anything that flys above MCC height (a rough scale, not saying this should be limit)
will be targeted by MCC missiles and brought down.. BAMM!
This relieves the need for a timer/barrier and gives pilots a sure reason to not use up, up and away as a tactic
they should have to use more caution then 'Oh, theres AV.. better gain some height' because with MMC targeting
they will now have to avoid AV locked down points, and call for team support to clear AV rather than flying above it
I think a height limiting feature by 'MCC targeting' would be a good fix to balance the ADS into our gameplay..
AND removes the ability to spam the unreachable areas in some maps as they cannot fly high enough to get there
Thoughts?
Innapropriate Irrelevence...
Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
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Haerr
Legio DXIV
1352
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Posted - 2014.09.08 15:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:So if we swapped the flight ceiling for a simple instant death at a height -snip-
No thank you! 
Super Cow Powers.
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
1216
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Posted - 2014.09.08 16:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Derpty Derp wrote:So if we swapped the flight ceiling for a simple instant death at a height -snip- No thank you!
Why..?? elaborate on why this is a bad thing compared to ADS flying about without risk at high altitude..
If the ADS wants to retreat and take cover then either fly to redzone, or behind actual cover (despite it's lacking)
Flying 300m+ above an objective should not be an EZ way to avoid the AV
I'm sure every pilot will pull their hair out and break down in tears once it takes actual planning and tactics
to bombard an area from above, you would need communication to be certain the area was clear first,
Or at least have your HAV/Infantry ready to draw the fire while the ADS approaches...
But the players will not take to this, as the Hit n' Run tactic ADS have grown used to depending on would be gone
Much love to Derpty Derp, it's not often a player offers input to nerf their own role, but Derp can fly well enough
That these changes would mean nothing other than remove the ability to retreat to high altitudes.
Innapropriate Irrelevence...
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9280
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Posted - 2014.09.08 17:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't like this idea primarily because dropships have it tough enough as it is. They can't see where the swarms are coming from let alone be able to tell apart a rock from a player (not sure if pixel or AV), they have no cover like the tanks and they're still being balanced in regards to AV swarms which according to CPM Judge Rhadamanthus in one of his videos is a complicated matter.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Monty Mole Clone
Shiv M
209
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Posted - 2014.09.08 18:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
this has already been done, not the dying part and even though i dont derp ship it was bad then and it would be bad now
lets just burn this motherfucker down
pew pew goes my scram rifle zap zap goes my scram pistol
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
746
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Posted - 2014.09.08 18:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
We have no instrumentation (altimeter, speedometer, etc) so no, especially not if it's insta-death.
If we had an altimeter and it wasn't just, "You're two centimetres too high: LOLDEAD!!" then I'd agree. As is (without the right information available to a pilot) and with the suggested auto-death, no.
Alt of Halla Murr.
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2025
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Posted - 2014.09.08 19:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
No thanks. I'm fine with the "stalling out" barrier we have now.
In case you didn't know, if you do fly too high, your dropship will drift and you will be unable to control it for a while (until you get back to below the level). You cannot steer, accelerate, tilt or anything besides activate mods and shoot. |
TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
1217
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Posted - 2014.09.08 19:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:No thanks. I'm fine with the "stalling out" barrier we have now.
In case you didn't know, if you do fly too high, your dropship will drift and you will be unable to control it for a while (until you get back to below the level). You cannot steer, accelerate, tilt or anything besides activate mods and shoot.
I am aware there is a limit, I am interested to know how high the current 'ceiling' is above ground level..
Innapropriate Irrelevence...
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2026
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Posted - 2014.09.08 19:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:No thanks. I'm fine with the "stalling out" barrier we have now.
In case you didn't know, if you do fly too high, your dropship will drift and you will be unable to control it for a while (until you get back to below the level). You cannot steer, accelerate, tilt or anything besides activate mods and shoot. I am aware there is a limit, I am interested to know how high the current 'ceiling' is above ground level..
I think if varies based on the map, or, since that some maps share the same 5k/5k landscape, based on their relative elevations and sharing a common ceiling.
I know on the 5 point map with the MCC/Spaceship tower/thing in the middle has a ridiculously high ceiling (like 2x the middle tower hight), whereas Manus Peak dom has a pretty low one iirc. |
Wasten
Anti Her0s
17
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Posted - 2014.09.08 20:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
+1 it would stop sniping on top off the MCC to. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kyoudai Furinkazan
1171
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Posted - 2014.09.08 20:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Foundation Seldon wrote:I think this sounds terrible.
IKR .
As much as I like to swarm and forge drop ships , this is a terrible idea .
Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1295
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Posted - 2014.09.08 20:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
This is an awful idea. Sometimes it's necessary to fly WAY WAY WAY UP HIGH, simply so people can be dropped onto a rooftop with uplinks and clear them out.
The position you've presented is incredibly incredibly biased. No one should be subject to instant death simply for doing an action you dislike.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
1219
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Posted - 2014.09.08 21:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:This is an awful idea. Sometimes it's necessary to fly WAY WAY WAY UP HIGH, simply so people can be dropped onto a rooftop with uplinks and clear them out.
The position you've presented is incredibly incredibly biased. No one should be subject to instant death simply for doing an action you dislike.
Biased.. YES
I am biased against Derpships flying WAY WAY WAY UP HIGH.
So mercs can deploy to camp a highground area or just avoid all AV weapons on the map.
What madness has me biased against two things that have no counter other than doing the same thing ......?
Regardless .. this was just a suggestion.. one that eliminated, MMC sniping, Highground camping, ADS superiority
But we in Dust <3 all of the above so lets keep it that way, who wants a balanced game anyway ??
Innapropriate Irrelevence...
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
752
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Posted - 2014.09.08 21:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quick question... What kind of counter does a HALO parachute drop have? That's essentially the same thing as a flight ceiling merc drop. Only real counter to either of them is AA fitted aircraft: in our case, we're looking at the Incubus.
Edit:
The flight ceiling has very little to with ADS power.
Alt of Halla Murr.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3313
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Posted - 2014.09.08 21:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hahahahahaahaha. I support the cruelty of this idea wholeheartedly. /s
Honestly, flight ceiling is probably a bit too high for the lack of real aerial combat. (Fighters, anyone?) Dropships shouldn't be able to go somewhere that makes them completely unreachable by all AV.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2030
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Posted - 2014.09.08 21:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Hahahahahaahaha. I support the cruelty of this idea wholeheartedly. /s
Honestly, flight ceiling is probably a bit too high for the lack of real aerial combat. (Fighters, anyone?) Dropships shouldn't be able to go somewhere that makes them completely unreachable by all AV.
But what good are they doing up there?
"A ship is safe in harbor, but that is not what it's made for." |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
752
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Posted - 2014.09.08 22:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Hahahahahaahaha. I support the cruelty of this idea wholeheartedly. /s
Honestly, flight ceiling is probably a bit too high for the lack of real aerial combat. (Fighters, anyone?) Dropships shouldn't be able to go somewhere that makes them completely unreachable by all AV. But what good are they doing up there? "A ship is safe in harbor, but that is not what it's made for."
Not to mention the fact that it isn't actually unreachable: Incubi love flight ceiling-clinging Pythons, aka easy prey.
Yes, yes, yes, only dropships blah, blah, blah, but it's not like I can get some special vehicle that ignores the redline that you just ran into is it? The flight ceiling isn't entirely safe, despite what some would claim. I know that I,personally,endeavour to make that true whenever I pull out my Incubus.
Alt of Halla Murr.
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
439
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Posted - 2014.09.08 23:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
I should really elaborate on the reasoning and the whole 'insta-death' is pretty over the top...
Fact is dropships do a hell of a lot of usefulness, there's a lot of bitching and simple damage/health/speed nerfs aren't going to stop any of that, they'll either have little effect or too much, rendering dropships completely useless.
Yes a dropship is useless above 100m apart from being an epic distraction to all av on the map and shooting at other dropships... But everyone knows you can just derp derp derp a few maneuvers and get hit very little by any other dropship.
It is however a safety zone that doesn't require you to leave the battle, you can easily swoop back down and pop a few targets then woop woop woop back to the ceiling before the av has even seen you...
When you're safe the armour rep/shield recharge kicks in and you heal up nicely ready to dive back in again (something I hear the infantry complain about quite a lot, chasing it off just to come back a few seconds later...
That's hardly a down side now is it? How long does infantry take to rep back up on it's own? Anyone saying 'but logis heal' is forgetting there is no logi standing on your dropship up there (though cool idea keeping a dude at the flight ceiling to repair weary dropships, lol.)
Also with such a place safe from av, what are the chances of getting logi-ships, they'd just camp up there along with the mobile cru's surrounded by their friendly ships pew pewing the 1 or 2 guys stupid enough to try to attack... you pop up heal and jump back down, but now you aren't fitting armour rep or worrying about shield recharge rates, just stack that hp fly up and heal, come back down... That's the kind of broken mechanic that isn't gonna make CCP happy... They'll just dump it and move on.
~~~ Instead of instagib ~~~
As people have mentioned we have no way of knowing how high we are, except the MCC's, which we can clearly see from everywhere, so that seems like a good "safe" height...
Instead of dropping a nuke on the ship, how about normal damage rails/missiles slowly dropping your hp (I say rails because less being rendered and we know where it's coming from, no need to lag out the frame-rate more than we have to) Now you have a warning, perhaps you can dodge the shots as well if it appears too strong to nerf you down (also more fun.)
You wanna heal in safety, there's the redzone (trust me it's huge, there's pleanty of room for all, lol.)
~~~ Tanks ~~~
Wont have to ***** about dropship being out of shot firing at you, to get in line the ship now has to dodge your shots (or the ai shots) before it gets to blow you to hell. |
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medomai grey
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
972
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Posted - 2014.09.08 23:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Hahahahahaahaha. I support the cruelty of this idea wholeheartedly. /s
Honestly, flight ceiling is probably a bit too high for the lack of real aerial combat. (Fighters, anyone?) Dropships shouldn't be able to go somewhere that makes them completely unreachable by all AV. I normally use this trick to prove how stupid a bad vocal pilot's post is. It involves me repeating back what they said with the parties involved switched around. Ok, here we go:
Infantry shouldn't be able to go somewhere that makes them completely unreachable by all dropships. We should totally do away with buildings.
Wow that felt weird. So yea. Bad CPM member; bad. 
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
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Denchlad 7
Dead Man's Game
521
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Posted - 2014.09.09 00:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hmm. Without an altimeter...no. Too many other issues with DS' at the moment as well. No need for more. Idea though is logical.
Main reason for no is that I couldnt do a double-backflip anymore. 
The only person in Dust stupid enough to Proto every single god-damn weapon. 19/19.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3481
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Posted - 2014.09.09 01:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
The only difference is that pilots will just boost out past the ground based redline and turn around their, still out of range, still just as useless to their team.
All you end up doing is penalise pilots who make HAHO/HALO drops. Or use the height for controlling their momentum and come to or from dead stops quicker. It wouldn't solve any of these problems.
Don't forget Dropships get extended redlines at a certain altitude.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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