All the marketing suggests it is an FPS, with 'intense infantry combat'. In reality, the game is set up to make getting into infantry combat as hard as possible at every turn, through such 'features' as:

1. Ridiculously OP dropships (in beta and since 1.7)
2. Ridiculously OP tanks (in beta and between 1.7 and a few of months ago)
3. LAVs - small rail driveby, hit and run, and hop out HMG (at its worst with LLAVs but has always been ridiculous)
4. OHKing redline and tower snipers (since forever)

And of course, many of the maps are ridiculously open so all of the above is unavoidable.

Ask yourself, what do these roles bring to the game? In every case, they are basically there to farm infantry. This is obvious in the case of LAVs and snipers, but even dropships and tanks kill far more infantry than they do vehicles. These roles are essentially parasitic, benefiting immensely from the presence of infantry, as that's where they get the vast majority of their kills, but offering infantry nothing in return except the constant threat of an arbitrary and infuriating OHK.

No other FPS goes so far out of its way to make it so hard to actually get into a firefight. Every one of the above 'features' would be considered a grotesque imbalance and instantly nerfed into oblivion in any FPS that was serious about the infantry experience, i.e., ALL OF THEM except Dust. Why? Because 90%+ of people looking to play these games want to play as 'regular' infantry, i.e. they want to shoot at people who can shoot back. Every other developer knows that their game stands or falls with the gunplay. They know that a game that will frequently instakill you in any number of ways before you even get within 100m of enemy infantry will crash hard. As, indeed, it has.

How did things get this far? My theory is that CCP is fundamentally not interested in infantry. They really wanted this game to be the planetary version of EVE, with great machines of metal pounding away at each other. Unfortunately, outside of World of Tanks, there isn't really a market for such a thing, so the business people told them to make it an FPS instead. But CCP made the game they wanted to anyway, just with FPS marketing and infantry thrown in as cannon fodder.

TL;DR Lots of QQ.

PS - I know I can avoid this stuff in ambush, but I prefer objective-based gameplay.

inb4 no gungame scrubs and the canihazISK underclass.

Dear lord, you need a psychiatrist, or at least a logical look at what you're saying. Half of it is pure unthought nonsense.

inb4 no gungame scrubs

Dear lord, you need a psychiatrist, or at least a logical look at what you're saying. Half of it is pure unthought nonsense.

Dear lord, you need a psychiatrist, or at least a logical look at what you're saying. Half of it is pure unthought nonsense.

#1: Snipers are infantry --- takes an idiot not to realize this
#2: You can evade tanks with ease --- all you have to do is actually THINK about your path Entirely Avoidable
#3: Snipers cannot kill you unless you stand still and let them lineup a head shot. -- you deserve to get killed for that kind of stupidity.
#4: Only dropships can chase you around the map.
#5: There are far more infantry than vehicles --- complaining that vehicles kill more infantry than vehicles is like complaining that you pulled out a blue sock at random from a bag filled with 30 blue and 2 red socks... it's kind of a fact of reality, that if something is in higher quantity you tend to encounter it more...
#6: Most gunfights occur in spaces vehicles cannot reach.
#7: It is quite EASY to return to battle, as there are spawn points throughout the map, and YOU CAN PLACE YOUR OWN! Not to mention that you can get back across the entire field, by again... paying attention to the map...

I know you do not want to think, so I have done all your thinking for you...



"inb4" quotes don't work if you are the one making the post referenced... Did someone hit you over the head recently, or do you just not know "the internet"?

Besides, most of what you complained about implies you have LESS than "no gungame" and even If I were to attempt reading the end bit by your own logic, that would be impossible to be "inb4" because your own post is from "no gungame".

Though I agree with you on his rant being stupid, the inb4 argument is a back and forth and since it is an internet meme it doesn't actually matter who uses it when, its only purpose is to state that you already know the counter argument that may be coming, it's a nerd clause for dealing with stupid responses. Only faglord neckbeards in fedoras sputter the you can't do that **** on 4chan or wherever the **** you picked up inb4 faglord neckbeard rules.

Where did you see the rule that you are stating is a rule against said rules?

Oh wait... You just did that to yourself didn't you?

Actual Reasons why DUST 514 Failed:

*Consistently OP Items, making this game frustrating for those who wish not to be monotonous.
*Lack of Matchmaking, making this game frustrating for new players.
*Lack of Development, making this game frustrating for Role Players.

Hey Ryme , none of that rhymed ... I'm kind of disappointed .

Half of it is pure unthought nonsense.

#1: Snipers are infantry --- takes an idiot not to realize this
#2: You can evade tanks with ease --- all you have to do is actually THINK about your path Entirely Avoidable
#3: Snipers cannot kill you unless you stand still and let them lineup a head shot. -- you deserve to get killed for that kind of stupidity.
#4: Only dropships can chase you around the map.
#5: There are far more infantry than vehicles --- complaining that vehicles kill more infantry than vehicles is like complaining that you pulled out a blue sock at random from a bag filled with 30 blue and 2 red socks... it's kind of a fact of reality, that if something is in higher quantity you tend to encounter it more...
#6: Most gunfights occur in spaces vehicles cannot reach.
#7: It is quite EASY to return to battle, as there are spawn points throughout the map, and YOU CAN PLACE YOUR OWN! Not to mention that you can get back across the entire field, by again... paying attention to the map...

I know you do not want to think, so I have done all your thinking for you...

"catastrophic commercial failure" lol

if CCP wasn't making money dust would not be on PSN right now

"catastrophic commercial failure" lol

if CCP wasn't making money dust would not be on PSN right now

Catastrophic Commercial Failures:

Lehman Brothers
Enron
Bernie Madoff's empire
Blockbuster
Chevy
A significant portion of the late 90s dot coms.
Particularly in gaming, Kingdoms of Amalur.

Not Catastrophic:
Dust 514

A failure of that magnitude should at the very least result in bankruptcy. Whatever Dust is, it certainly isn't Catastrophic...

Let's put it this way.

If you held a significant amount of LEHMAN BROTHERS stock from its founding in 1850 until to its bankruptcy in 2008, you would have received tens of billions of dollars in dividend payments in exchange for a negligible initial investment.

By contrast, DUST never made a profit, ever.

Let's put it this way.

If you held a significant amount of LEHMAN BROTHERS stock from its founding in 1850 until to its bankruptcy in 2008, you would have received tens of billions of dollars in dividend payments in exchange for a negligible initial investment.

By contrast, DUST never made a profit, ever.

So you are saying because of a completely impossible scenario in which I as an individual could have theoretically made lots of money, the colapse of Lehman Brothers, which sent the entire global economy into the worst recession since the Great Depression, is LESS of a Catasrpohic Commercial Failure than Dust?

Ok...

These kinds of threads,if anything, should go in Legion discussion as something not to do. Until someone (CCP) tells us they're going to seriously work on DUST again rather than just apply hotfixes as life support until they cut it loose, I don't want to discuss important core gameplay features for fear of wasting my time.

Obviously, I did not mean you as an individual. I would have thought it was rather obvious this was a hypothetical, no? For one thing, to have personally held Lehman Brothers stock in 1850 you would have to be one of the three actual Lehman brothers, and about 200 years old...

The point is that Lehman Brothers was pretty good at giving its shareholders big piles of money (=commercially successful), whereas Dust was pretty good at taking money off its 'shareholder' (i.e. CCP) and turning it into ... dust.

I never said, nor do I need to say, that Dust's commercial failure was worse than the the COLLAPSE of Lehman Brothers. That is just cherry picking on your part. I would have thought it was clear that I was comparing the two commercial ventures in toto.

Can't help but feel we've gone off on a tangent here...

first of all i don't believe this and would like to see the numbers. CCP makes a ton of money i have checked, i just don't know the figures on Dust AUR sales.

more importantly Dust wouldn't even have DEVs right now if it wasn't turning a profit. they are just using PSN to ease the burden on their Eve server which is why it doesn't cost them much, although i'd imagine they are paying Sony to keep it running.

i just realized this thread is stupid.

vehicles are not anywhere near as much of a problem as you make them out to be. they used to be in 1.7 but that was fixed and we slowly saw the militia tank spammers move on to better things.

in serious matches vehicles can actually be inconsequential, can't even make it to the infantry because they're inside or around buildings the vehicle can't reach.

it's actually getting to the point in PC that tanks aren't very useful anymore

it doesn't take much sense to avoid vehicles in this game.

start the match, call in a MLT vehicle or run to the point. die, spawn on friendly uplinks closest to the point.

at least 80% of the time a vehicle never even stops me from getting to said point

By contrast, DUST never made a profit, ever.

Thank you oh wise one! It is truly a blessing to share in your wisdom!

#1 Infantry are snipers! Incredible stuff, I never knew that, I thought they were dinosaurs!
#2 All I have to do to avoid tanks is THINK! Absolute genius! What marvellous insights you bring to the table!
#3 Snipers can only kill you if you stand still! It's true! Literally impossible for them to hit you if you move! Again, I am so grateful that you share your great learning!

I could go on in praise of your incredible knowledge of the game! You are a true master! But if it is not out of place, may I draw on your deep understanding one last time? Please my lord, tell me this final secret:

How did you get your KDR so low? How do you manage to have 9.076 kills at 1.04 KDR? I have tried to play as badly as you, but I don't think it is possible. No matter how scrubby I try to be, my KDR stubbornly stays at 4.21, in fact it keeps going up

Please my liege, teach me more, I am eager to learn.

All the marketing suggests it is an FPS, with 'intense infantry combat'. In reality, the game is set up to make getting into infantry combat as hard as possible at every turn, through such 'features' as:
.....
4. OHKing redline and tower snipers (since forever)

And of course, many of the maps are ridiculously open so all of the above is unavoidable.

Ask yourself, what do these roles bring to the game? In every case, they are basically there to farm infantry. This is obvious in the case of LAVs and snipers.....

Slapping yourself in the face, yet again.
You seem to be good at writing things that are easily destroyed by analysis.

#1: You claimed that snipers were not infantry, read your own words back:

Notice how in this quote segment I've isolated what you actually said? Your claim is that snipers are not infantry due to the statement that "snipers are there to farm infantry".

#2: I would have expected you to put the concept together yourself such as "look both ways before crossing the street". Very basic lines of thought.
--Look at the battlefield. Tanks light up a cone in the area in front of them.
--Look at your map. Tanks CAN be seen at all times even if they are underneath a structure because of their Headlights.
--Listen as you travel. Tanks make a lot of noise and can be heard from 200m out, that's plenty of time to run for cover in most areas.
--Think about the tank. Where has it been, where is it most likely going. Make a path to your objective that runs places tanks have a hard time traveling, or don't normally run.

#3: Unless you are doing something stupid or arrogant, you should not die to a sniper barrage in a proto suit like the ones you consistently romp around in. Also, bullet failure is a thing that happens to snipers. Shots hit targets that result in no damage, even if the target is standing still, but it happens more often when the target is moving. People attribute this to latency of the server itself.
Note, I never said snipers could not hit you if you moved. Most sniper kills are not solo sniper events, but a combination of ground troops flushing out other ground troops, as in the target makes a stupid move into the open to escape another unit, getting shot as a result.

#4: I understand those of the inferior mindset who think KDR is everything, are often confused by anything placed in a logical order, so I shall instead tell you what you were using as a measuring stick. Nonsense. KDR only claims how often you survive in a suit. How often does your team win because of your presence? Were you even worth it, or did you just hide in a corner farming spawn uplinks to keep your KDR up so you could boast about it? What about that logistics player who rezzed 14 other people, but didn't kill a single one? Or how about that person who hacked and occupied a point preventing the enemy from capturing it, even through multiple deaths?
My kill ratios are quite simplistic really. I go for the objective and am not afraid to blitzkrieg the enemy position to absolutely demolish their defenses. YOU on the other hand are very timid in your gameplay, and prefer to hide in predetermined places, most likely in a scout suit or whatever fit is claimed to be the most "potent" at that time. Your Proto suits are a major crutch and prove nothing of your usefulness in battle.

I wonder what your KDR would be if you only used Standard fittings like I do? No Adv, no Pro, nilch of that. Yes I have the skills in suit and weapons for such things, but I find that to be a major crutch. Are you over-reliant on your suit? Or do you only do squad battles so you can hide in a cluster and never see actual combat in public games?

If you held a significant amount of LEHMAN BROTHERS stock from its founding in 1850 until to its bankruptcy in 2008, you would have received tens of billions of dollars in dividend payments in exchange for a negligible initial investment.

By contrast, DUST never made a profit, ever.

QQ moar scrub, fact of the matter is I'm near the top of the board dominating the enemy every (pub) game. Your 1.04 KDR says you go negative about as often as you go positive, and your 0.93 W/L says you lose more games than you win. You are a liability to your team. GOML.

QQ moar scrub, fact of the matter is I'm near the top of the board dominating the enemy every (pub) game. Your 1.04 KDR says you go negative about as often as you go positive, and your 0.93 W/L says you lose more games than you win. You are a liability to your team. GOML.

So you admit to being no use to your team and farming drop uplinks just for KD/R. Interesting.
Most don't so bluntly place the target of cheating the system over their own heads. You do know that farming KD/R is a punishable offense ingame, do you not?

Having someone rezzed then killed repetatively just to raise your KD/R is rather lame.

I see you still have no idea what KD/R means. It does not mean one is good at this game.
Also I see you did not bother to include your own W/L ratio, I have no doubt in my mind that you tried padding that as well by using rigged teams in public matches.

All the numbers you quoted say one thing : You cheat the system to try to make yourself think you are good.

As i said before, i doubt you could hold a 1.0 KD/R or W/L ratio if you used Standard gear and did not use Rigged squad games, nor kill-farm. You know... actually play the game?

Such concepts are so far beyond your understanding, all you can think of is "KD/R KD/R KD/R KD/R KD/R".
I understand, the internet is full of people who were raised on the mentalities of Call of Duty. Being a Logi who actually heals people instead of getting kills probably confuses you so badly that you stay awake crying at night trying to reconcile this concept in your head and failing.

Are you familiar with the fast hacker role? Scout dropsuit, preferably Minmatar or Gallente, with a cloaking device and 1+ hacking modules in the high slots. The merc should have relevant racial scout dropsuit V, dampening V, hacking V. The merc joins a squad and while the squad harasses the enemy, this guy runs around and hacks everything in sight; CRUs, turrets, supply depots, and objectives (when possible).

It's a very low K/D role, but it is valuable. I won't even go into logistics' K/D and how valuable they are.

K/D is not king Ryme, not by a long shot.

Thanks to CCP's matchmaking, neither is W/L ratio. I've had solid squads of mine get placed against queue synced corporations so... that isn't a good indicator of skill either.

Actual "skill" in Dust 514 is probably a weighted formula derived from K/D, WP per death, and lifetime WP.

Where did I ever say that I farm uplinks, pad KDR or cheat the system in any way?! You need to level up your English comprehension as well as your gungame. I kill the enemies defending the point and hack it, the same as the average player, only difference is I'm better at it than the average pubby. The fact that you automatically assume that someone with a 4.something KDR cheats in some way says a lot about your lack of abilities. That is not even a high KDR, 7+ is high. Some people are just better than you, MUCH BETTER THAN YOU. Deal with it and stop making pathetic excuses.

#3: Snipers cannot kill you unless you stand still and let them lineup a head shot. -- you deserve to get killed for that kind of stupidity

Haha, I laughed at this. I've gotten sniped while cloaked and sprinting through city areas. I think you are greatly underestimating some of the snipers in this game. Possibly you run a 900+HP suit and don't die in a single shot.

I don't think you understood a word that you even wrote. Plus there is the logic of the thing, for every person with a 4 average, there is someone with a 0.25 average. Meaning, that no matter how you try to cut that cokie, a 1.0 is actually decent, considering it is the average measure by which the numbers are cycled.

Now as for those with ratios higher than 3... Using rigged squads, and Proto suits are the only way to get ratios higher than 3, because if you actually entered a pub match in pub ranked gear, I can guarantee your ratios would plummet down to 1.0.

All the marketing suggests it is an FPS, with 'intense infantry combat'. In reality, the game is set up to make getting into infantry combat as hard as possible at every turn, through such 'features' as:

1. Ridiculously OP dropships (in beta and since 1.7)
2. Ridiculously OP tanks (in beta and between 1.7 and a few of months ago)
3. LAVs - small rail driveby, hit and run, and hop out HMG (at its worst with LLAVs but has always been ridiculous)
4. OHKing redline and tower snipers (since forever)

And of course, many of the maps are ridiculously open so all of the above is unavoidable.

Ask yourself, what do these roles bring to the game? In every case, they are basically there to farm infantry. This is obvious in the case of LAVs and snipers, but even dropships and tanks kill far more infantry than they do vehicles. These roles are essentially parasitic, benefiting immensely from the presence of infantry, as that's where they get the vast majority of their kills, but offering infantry nothing in return except the constant threat of an arbitrary and infuriating OHK.

No other FPS goes so far out of its way to make it so hard to actually get into a firefight. Every one of the above 'features' would be considered a grotesque imbalance and instantly nerfed into oblivion in any FPS that was serious about the infantry experience, i.e., ALL OF THEM except Dust. Why? Because 90%+ of people looking to play these games want to play as 'regular' infantry, i.e. they want to shoot at people who can shoot back. Every other developer knows that their game stands or falls with the gunplay. They know that a game that will frequently instakill you in any number of ways before you even get within 100m of enemy infantry will crash hard. As, indeed, it has.

How did things get this far? My theory is that CCP is fundamentally not interested in infantry. They really wanted this game to be the planetary version of EVE, with great machines of metal pounding away at each other. Unfortunately, outside of World of Tanks, there isn't really a market for such a thing, so the business people told them to make it an FPS instead. But CCP made the game they wanted to anyway, just with FPS marketing and infantry thrown in as cannon fodder.

TL;DR Lots of QQ.

PS - I know I can avoid this stuff in ambush, but I prefer objective-based gameplay.

inb4 no gungame scrubs and the canihazISK underclass.

Actual Reasons why DUST 514 Failed:

*Consistently OP Items, making this game frustrating for those who wish not to be monotonous.
*Lack of Matchmaking, making this game frustrating for new players.
*Lack of Development, making this game frustrating for Role Players.

If you are not capable of moving after the first shot hits, then you are clearly outside of this model, and/or might need to get more armor instead of stealth if that really matters to you (which I assume it does not). Most suits can run for cover after the first shot, a second shot is almost always needed on a moving target because the head has targeting issues.
I assume you were in a scout suit with very little defenses if any, in favor of dampening gear.