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Jathniel
G I A N T
1156
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Posted - 2014.09.05 20:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Honored Council members,
What's CCP's plan with Sniper Rifles?
Is there a plan for them?
There are clearly gross imbalances at work with the mechanics of their operation; many of which are self-perpetuating.
Many players that primary sniper rifle use, find it stupid and impractical, to use within the ranges that non-snipers demand it be used.
So they resort to redline sniping, as it seems to be the only way to snipe practically and consistently, with little interruption.
If they aren't in the redline, they are either spending more time running from opponents, or they are trying to position themselves at high and hard to reach places.
This usually just results in them being counter-sniped, bombed by ADS, or stormed by a group on a dropship.
To counter this, snipers are again compensating by using Heavy dropsuits; Commando suits in particular, are permitting them to get to defensible positions for sniping, while equipping a swarm launcher to shoot down incoming dropships. Other Commando snipers are now a little more comfortable equipping an effective mid-range light weapon (CR, RR, etc.) as a supplement to their sniping.
This is resulting in people complaining about seeing Heavies with light weapons.
Example 1
Example 2
This all comes back around to the sniper rifle itself being broken, and simply cutting the weapon's range won't fix this.
If CCP is planning to cut the range on the weapon, then where is the rebalance to make it competitive?
What is the plan?
Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4132
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Posted - 2014.09.06 06:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
I actually watched symbiotic forks recent videos and I paid close attention to the ranges he used his rifle from. -Very- rarely did he go outside 400 meters..even when he was using a sniper from atop the MCC he was mostly shooting inside 300.
Perhaps only 10% of my shots are from outside 400m, and most maps I am quite safe in the redline shooting targets under 350m.
I think the main thing is to give sniper back a clean reticule. They need to get rewarded for skilled headshots.
I do not think sniper should be doing 500+ damage per shot on a charged fully maxxed out, personally. I do not think it's balanced to hit even tanky scouts with 1 body shot. Thales obviously is the exception because it should be borderline OP, right?
I really hope that someday we can do some terrain fixes that allows snipers to have a lot more spots outside the redline...as I find redline sniping to be very poorly balanced.
When you consider counterplay, getting killed by a sniper should have an element of fun knowing you can go and counter them...redline sniping limits counterplay to praying you can locate the sniper...and get them to let you kill them, as 1 shotting most competent redline snipers is out of the equation and they just retreat behind cover if they are even capable of being hit (head glitching). The only other option is hoping you can locate them with a dropship scanner...which is quite difficult with the AV you find present in the redline awaiting your attempts...and then you need to hope you have enough time to kill them before you commit suicide...which is also not very satisfying (unless it's a thales lol).
Sniper tails need to be consistent as often I'm fired at multiple times and quickly try to ascertain which direction and mostly become frustrated knowing I can't.
Maps are a huge issue for snipers...for (2 of symbiotics video's demonstrate an ability to shoot directly into the objective in dom games) and against (just not enough spots for snipers to engage infantry meaningfully).
I am rather excited about the tactical and I think that skilled snipers will continue to be quite potent (as I've repeatedly said very good snipers can destroy infantry on bridge maps currently in PC as well as being pretty effective on towers maps as well) and that hopefully we buff them slowly until they are quite satisfied they are satisfied with their contribution and impact each match.
I -wish- tagging was a larger art of the snipers role, as callout contributions are very important, but difficult. I've only known one talented sniper who could put orders down on bridge maps on advancing enemies in that spotter type role.
If you have suggestions please let us know!
I've enjoyed reading and considering both Appia and Symbiotic's perspectives.
I won't get into my more controversial views (like how I wish we could simply eradicate redline sniping and see what happens for a patch) but suffice it to say I want to buff snipers relative to their vulnerability. Currently thales near invulnerability in the redline and hit for 500+ damage with impunity is an issue that weighs on my mind.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4132
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Posted - 2014.09.06 06:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Addendum..if we could get sniper out of the redline permanently I'd be fine if a headshot was 1 shot 1 kill honestly. but I dunno if others would agree with me. >_<
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Spademan
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3513
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Posted - 2014.09.06 14:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Addendum..if we could get sniper out of the redline permanently I'd be fine if a headshot was 1 shot 1 kill honestly. but I dunno if others would agree with me. >_<
I had a random thought the other day: What if headshot multipliers were disabled when firing from the redline?
Possible or no? Helpful or no?
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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Jathniel
G I A N T
1157
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Posted - 2014.09.07 11:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'd like to quote a post from this player:
Keeriam Miray wrote:Jathniel wrote:Sniper rifles in Dust are fundamentally broken by being hitscan.
But apparently, doing any kind of meaningful change to the sniper rifles is either impossible within the game engine, or impossible since they aren't releasing any major client updates. Sniper rifle with bullet drop & travel time was removed in Open Beta, Experimental Sniper Rifle in militia weapon category, so very few players know about it & was using it. Weapon not exist anymore but projectile class for it still there. And it has "explosive" dmg type. http://www.stuff514.com/sde/type/356927Maybe CCP can put it back with hotfix  like placeholder for Precision (Minmatar) Sniper Rifle or just for fun & lulz, it was very fun shooting & actually kill someone with it  It's just "by design" Rail (Caldari) Sniper Rifles has bullet velocity of 2500m/sec, and max range is 600m. There logically can't be any bullet drop nor travel time. Read the description.
Source:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2351570#post2351570 Post #43.
I am *positive*, that giving the sniper rifles proper physics + a hearty damage boost would place them right where they need to be.
Overall sniper rifle damage can approximate the Thale's performance, and range reductions won't be necessary, ONLY if the weapon takes proper skill to use.
The key is physics.
Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3291
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Posted - 2014.09.08 15:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Spademan wrote:I had a random thought the other day: What if headshot multipliers were disabled when firing from the redline?
Possible or no? Helpful or no?
The problem is any idea you should punish people for being in the redline. One, because CCP has systematically reduced the options for sniping inside the map over time, forcing snipers to the redline. And two, because players cannot see their own redline, so punishing people for being behind it is dumb.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Spademan
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3566
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Posted - 2014.09.08 20:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fair enough.
On your second point: Would it be feasible to implement a sort of blue line which shows where your teams redline extends to?
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3298
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Posted - 2014.09.08 20:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Fair enough.
On your second point: Would it be feasible to implement a sort of blue line which shows where your teams redline extends to?
Not without a client patch. And if we had a client patch, rather than do that, which wouldn't really solve anything, I would rather redraw the redlines. Because most problems with redline sniping could be fixed with subtle adjustments to where the redlines actually are on the map.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Spademan
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3568
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Posted - 2014.09.08 23:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
I only mention it because I figured it'd be nice to know where your redline is.
Anyway, thanks for answering and good luck.
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3339
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Posted - 2014.09.09 06:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
It certainly wouldn't hurt to be able to see it.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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snarkster69
Neo Brigade
0
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Posted - 2014.09.26 17:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm just a player.
I redline snipe with the very expensive isk wise charge sniper rifle.
That expensive rifle is now useless as its range has been cut.
Either put it back where it belongs or give everyone their money back.
The sp has already been spent so can't get those back, but the hardware cost are getting out of hand. Almost 50k per rifle and now can't be used effectively due to charge up time and the ridiculous sound. The range on the charge is that of lower end weapons and reducing ammo loadout to 3 shots. I spent my sp and money for those convinces or better range and ammo quantity.
Just because some people complain about snipers killing them all time, should make them better at using cover, I've had to learn to use cover against Thale users.
Why punish snipers with lower range and lower ammo caps, you've made them useless.
Thank you
Snarkster
Yup this is me
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17144
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Posted - 2014.10.06 16:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hello Snarkster welcome to the council chambers.
Please do not post illogical fallacies they will be mostly ignored, this is not general discussion.
Bring numbers, bring evidence, bring videos of your precious charge rifle being worthless and Ill compare it to the numbers, evidence and videos of where it is clearly not.
Thank you.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Assault Rifles =// Unlocked
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