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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
100
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Posted - 2014.09.06 18:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:The issue here is pilot skills stacking. yes it creates an OP situation yes dark cloud is dodging the issue by attempting to make the point that that you could do this with a python and it'd be even more OP (then again the incubus is able to sit longer because of it's tank levels IMO)...whether 2 players respective skills should stack like this is the issue that needs a debate and consensus answer.
I think it should remain.
This game has a bit of everything for everyone. Sadly the vehicle pilots are a minority & will NEVER be heard over the majority that is infantry. Just how it is with this community & CCP.
Skill stacking is a form of SP investment. Two people have spent millions of SP into Dropship Operation & even further into turret skills. The amount of people that do this is very, Very small. Smaller than the pilot player base itself.
Plus with it having the skills stacked, Of course, Makes your dropship have more fire power -- But at the cost of integrity of the hull.
The more SP you have invested, The easy the fittings become, But that is how it should be.
Incubus & The Mini Rail
The Incubus having gunners using even Cannons as side turrets, Doesn't become an actual lethal threat until the gunner is at lvl 4 in Incubus skills. Lvl 1-2 is a small threat. Lvl 3 is medial. Lvl 4-5 is a major threat. If the gunner has no skills invested into the Mini Rail itself, Then he won't be able to lead shots, The Pilot will have to constantly get ammo, Gunner will miss target opportunities from reload taking too long. Lvl 1-2 Incubus gunners are really not that big of a deal in the fight. They can be taken down easily by another Incubus or Python pilot or get ambushed by AV/Tanks -- Which is very likely. Lvl 3 is more of a serious threat to vehicles & infantry, But not severe. They can still be solo-ed by another Incubus pilot & easily taken down by AV strikes or tanks. Do not attempt with a Python. Lvl 4-5 is where you have a problem on the field. This gunner & pilot combination can do the ultimate RoF & without a timed strike, Can wreak havoc. These are your experienced pilots. These are the ones who the cry babies in the forums whine about. The skill maxed ADS pilots who have skill maxed gunners. You do not approach these Incubus without a well-though out plan. Know what you can handle with each of your vehicles. Nonetheless, These Incubus are still easily taken down by AV strikes. That also depends on the pilot's awareness as well.
Python & Missiles
I'm not even gonna explain this because Pythons are made of glass as it is. They are more than easy to take down by AV. Sh!t, You could probably throw a rock at it & kill it. I HAVE to have my awareness at max all the time -- If I don't and 3-2 swarms/forge hit me, Its over. I mean even infantry weapons can do max damage to a Python's armor LOL GG CCP. The dogfights between a Python & Incubus is an absolute joke. A Python doesn't even stand a chance. I can rip up a Python with my Incubus using less than one magazine. While I've killed Incubus in my Python -- It takes a couple volleys. I'm glad the Python can be OP with a gunner. The Python will only be good at killing armor & killing infantry -- All of that is gone with a couple of AV units.
Now all these things I know because I have been on both sides of the coin. I've had stacked gunners & flown without them. I have been a gunner myself & I know exactly what each raised lvl in the books give me. I know that there is comrades who are pilots who believe small turrets stacking needs to be out of the game. All I can say is, Look at what we vehicle pilots have left. We really are not vehicle specialists anymore because a good deal of skills, Vehicles, Modules have been removed. Tanks have been mega nerfed. Existing modules have been nerfed. ADSs are about the last thing that hasn't been fooled around with too much, But they have been nerfed through modules & I hear about an upcoming AB nerf. The skill stacking is just a form of SP investment shared between pilots. Skilled Gunners are a very minor presence in the game. For all the pilots who die because of a stacked gunship, All I can tell you is know what you can face & what you can't. Your skill doesn't matter, The enemy gunship just simply has more firepower. Doesn't mean you can't take the gunship down, Its just you have to smart about doing it. Most of the time, You'll see that if you wait long enough, AV units or installations have already done that job for you.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
104
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Posted - 2014.09.06 21:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Quasar....you're joking, right? I can't believe that you are trying to argue that the ADS is underpowered. Especially when you say that it's easy for AV to take out an ADS. If there has ever been a more biased opinion, I'd be surprised.
I believe that the incubus in the video requires 3 shots from a triple-stacked damage mod particle cannon. Good luck getting 3 shots on that ADS.
Just because these guys die doesn't mean that it isn't OP
Never said stacked gunners isn't OP. It is. But it takes a lot of SP to get to that. Its earned firepower. Their gunships are still just as vulnerable. I look at it like a sniper in the redline. Its OP to be in a place where you don't have to face infantry & you just get to snipe them with minimal resistance. If you really want them dead, You'll find a way.
I'm just saying I'm fine with the stacked skills. Makes dropships more formidable for fire power. It is a rare case to have a good gunner in which the gunner has to have spent millions of SP to make it stacked in the first place. I'm not saying this as a pilot who always flies with gunners. Like I said, I've been on both sides. However, A skilled pilot will know how to take care of this in a match.
Because it is a minority in the game, I just don't particularly pay too much attention to it. There are bigger issues at hand. Like the specialization gone from vehicles, Pythons not being level with Incubus, Python's armor being bugged, Invisible swarms, Invisible forges, Collision issues with dropships & just plain ridiculous rendering issues.
And don't bring up tanks. Forges are worth more on the battlefront than tanks nowadays. Tanks ain't what they used to be, Nor will they ever return to that state. The modules, Turrets we have now are bland & require minimal thought. Making just about anybody a decent tanker.
That's where people have it wrong in this game. Teamwork is supposed to be OP. Its what the game calls for. Not solo crap. No, You will not fire swarms at an ADS by yourself and expect to kill it. Nor with a tank or forge. But if you had others with you to help your cause, Consider that vehicle gone.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
104
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 21:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
And I don't want AV touched for the record. I think its all just fine. If anything, I do like the nerf ABs might be getting. Makes swarms hits more possible & only a good pilot will know when to enter the fight. Forges are fine & swarms are fine as far as damage. I fly my way around them if I can & if I can't -- Well I can't do anything. ADSs in general are not underpowered. I have never asked for any buffs, Even when I get nerfed.
I do, However, Believe Pythons are just a bit too easy to smash. Its not the eHP. Maybe resistances, I'm not exactly sure. Plus the armor bug is ridiculous too. If I did ask for a buff, Pythons need a resistance buff to Mini Rails. Its unparalleled between Incubus & Python. Even a Saga with an accellerator can take down a Python LOL. I've done it too many times.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
104
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 16:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Quasar Storm wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Quasar....you're joking, right? I can't believe that you are trying to argue that the ADS is underpowered. Especially when you say that it's easy for AV to take out an ADS. If there has ever been a more biased opinion, I'd be surprised.
I believe that the incubus in the video requires 3 shots from a triple-stacked damage mod particle cannon. Good luck getting 3 shots on that ADS.
Just because these guys die doesn't mean that it isn't OP Never said stacked gunners isn't OP. It is. But it takes a lot of SP to get to that. Its earned firepower. Their gunships are still just as vulnerable. I look at it like a sniper in the redline. Its OP to be in a place where you don't have to face infantry & you just get to snipe them with minimal resistance. If you really want them dead, You'll find a way. I'm just saying I'm fine with the stacked skills. Makes dropships more formidable for fire power. It is a rare case to have a good gunner in which the gunner has to have spent millions of SP to make it stacked in the first place. I'm not saying this as a pilot who always flies with gunners. Like I said, I've been on both sides. However, A skilled pilot will know how to take care of this in a match. Because it is a minority in the game, I just don't particularly pay too much attention to it. There are bigger issues at hand. Like the specialization gone from vehicles, Pythons not being level with Incubus, Python's armor being bugged, Invisible swarms, Invisible forges, Collision issues with dropships & just plain ridiculous rendering issues. And don't bring up tanks. Forges are worth more on the battlefront than tanks nowadays. Tanks ain't what they used to be, Nor will they ever return to that state. The modules, Turrets we have now are bland & require minimal thought. Making just about anybody a decent tanker. That's where people have it wrong in this game. Teamwork is supposed to be OP. Its what the game calls for. Not solo crap. No, You will not fire swarms at an ADS by yourself and expect to kill it. Nor with a tank or forge. But if you had others with you to help your cause, Consider that vehicle gone. Teamwork is fine....I don't have a problem with how effective ADS kills infantry and tanks. My problem is the lack of an effective counter. Once you hit an ADS once..they activate their burner, and they are out of danger. No other vehicle or infantry class can boast that ability. The only way is to catch them sleeping and hope you can get two shots on them before they leave. ADS' that require 3 shots are insane to take out. Tanks are just vulnerable to them...ADS pilots can even fly into the spawn and destroy the tank before the timer runs out lol. idk...I just feel that ADS' being able to just get out of range by hitting the ceiling (ADS redline) is just too easy.
I agree. The afterburner I heard is getting a nerf. The cooldown cycle is getting nerfed with a raised wait time making pilots put Complex ABs in order to have that escape velocity more often. I always run complex mods, So I always stay on the move as much as possible. Guess you could say I stay feelin' like I got a target painted on me. The amount of time the AB will last is goin' up, Though. So, Its kind of like a nerf/buff. But Pilots won't always have their afterburner at the ready making the risk go up every time they enter a fight.
I ain't got no problem with AV being balanced for vehicles. Ground troopers should have a chance. But I don't want nothin' taken away from me. I've already had so much taken away. My vehicles, Turrets, & modules. Compared to the pilot community, The infantry in this game has it easy.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
104
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 16:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Teamwork would be using both turrets and both people to gain an advantage... Not just having 2 people to make 1 turret pew pew like crazy.
And the guy who mentioned LAV's is right... The LAV's get boned time and time again, but no one even thinks about it.
The only thing that has happened to LAVs is, LLAVS & SLAVS got removed, Plus they got nerfed through modules.
Well, All I know, When I have a stacked gunner -- He just doesn't pew pew like crazy. He drops out & places links, Gives me advanced warnings of incoming dangers that I don't see. My gunner is the sword of my ADS. Remember, If the gunner has stacked skills, He is already a pilot himself. Not to mention we are risking about 1 million isk every time.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
104
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 17:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Quasar Storm wrote:Derpty Derp wrote:Teamwork would be using both turrets and both people to gain an advantage... Not just having 2 people to make 1 turret pew pew like crazy.
And the guy who mentioned LAV's is right... The LAV's get boned time and time again, but no one even thinks about it. The only thing that has happened to LAVs is, LLAVS & SLAVS got removed, Plus they got nerfed through modules. Well, All I know, When I have a stacked gunner -- He just doesn't pew pew like crazy. He drops out & places links, Gives me advanced warnings of incoming dangers that I don't see. My gunner is the sword of my ADS. Remember, If the gunner has stacked skills, He is already a pilot himself. Not to mention we are risking about 1 million isk every time. Every nerf to a small turret & every buff to other vehicles and av is something that effects the LAV as well... While it's the easiest vehicle to blow up, you can also pop the driver with ease... Keeping an LAV alive takes more skill than piloting. Congrats on pointing out all the other things a non stacked gunner can do to help with teamwork, while not actually pointing out how that makes the stacking bonus any less bullshite.
If you scroll to my first post, I explained what makes them OP. Try not to get tunnel vision in these forums. Happens easily.
Besides, All I've heard is a bunch of whining about mini rails. The only thing I can think of with mini rails vs other things is the balance between Pythons & Incubus.
If I do happen to have a stacked gunner in my dropship, He is going to do something. I need to see the fact I opened a seat for him make a difference on the field. We work together. Very few gunners I know make that difference. I just don't see why people are being boo boo lipped over something in the community that is so incredibly small compared to other issues. He helps protect my ship & I help protect my gunner. We are flying around basically in a 1 mil isk receipt. If I had a non-stacked gunner, I'd most likely not give a sh!t about his well-being, Because he won't be able to kill anything. Hitting things with side mini rails is very difficult unless the pilot is at a steady hover. The slightest drift can knock the shot off. I know, Because I've been the gunner as much as the pilot.
I don't know how you pilot, But I'm going to tell you now, Before labeling anything in this game, You should test every aspect for yourself. Cause right now, You just sound like the cry baby that dies from a gunship. You sound like the cry babies that got a lot of my vehicles/turrets/modules taken away.
The way I see it, If you want something dead in a match, Figure it out. There always is a way. Be smart about how you approach these gunships if you are by yourself. Blindly running up to it is not always the option.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
105
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 03:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Quasar Storm wrote:
I don't know how you pilot, But I'm going to tell you now, Before labeling anything in this game, You should test every aspect for yourself. Cause right now, You just sound like the cry baby that dies from a gunship. You sound like the cry babies that got a lot of my vehicles/turrets/modules taken away
I have tried everything to do with vehicles... I have killed and destroyed everything that I complain about, I try everything that I complain about... I want balance, not just "waaah, don't take my **** away!" Saying a side gunner can't do **** without stacking is ridiculous... Have you even used a non stacked turret? All 3 can take kills if used right without any bonus.
Of course I have man. Yes, A unstacked mini rail can still kill infantry or even Pythons. I do in my LAV. (I know, I'm a jerk.)
But I'm on the ground, Not moving at all when I shoot from my LAV. I don't know, There is just so many components to gunning as far as flying. Whatever that is decided on this, I'm fine either way, Cause I end up flying all the time anyways. I just never had a real problem with stacking or seeing others do it.
Sorry if I got a little offensive earlier, Its been a long day for me.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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