DUST Search - The Facts: Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP & Changes to Projectile Dam...

Michael Arck wrote:

TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:

Michael Arck wrote:

Its really not. All the variables cannot be seen. Thats why math says one thing but.in lab tests demonstrates something else.

In programming, that's called bugs. Programming is not the same as laboratory tests. In a virtual environment that doesn't adhere to any unknown/unaware conditions the math is all that we need to go on. You shouldn't balance a game on bugs you should fix the bugs, your point is still a cop out and moot.

If you do feel so strongly that the math can't be trusted you at least need to present a real reason why instead of a hypothetical stance that something else could happen like a tank could fall out of the sky crushing the amarr tanker. This is why I referenced chicken little. That is a children's story specifically about people fearing the unknown and making a big deal out of it against evidence to the contrary.

Again, what am I talking about is unforeseen variables that can only be identified througb testing. Simple.


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TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 590	Posted - 2014.09.04 20:32:00 - [1] - Quote I don't understand why so many people are freaking out about this. As you have shown the armor tanks will still win out in most cases against shield tanks. And hey there is always a flux grenade. I would think more people would be on board with this, as it will correct the issue of smgs and CRs outperforming weapons that they really shouldn't simply because they have the most negligible damage profile that somehow came out with a net positive (still don't understand what the old devs were thinking on that.)
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 591	Posted - 2014.09.04 21:22:00 - [2] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Math and theory is one thing. On field execution is something entirely different. That's a pretty easy cop out. The major hmg heavy concern has come from hmg vs. hmg. In that case, the only real factors are the two players skills and the MATH AND THEORY behind their stats. You can't balance according to player skill so that leaves only one reasonable point of balance. And the math shows that armor tanks still win the e/hp race in hmg vs. hmg. The sky isn't actually falling chicken little. And like I said already, the damage profile rebalance will help to make smgs and CRs less optimal in situations they were supposed to be less optimal in IE shield tanks. Right now they chew through everything. What bothers me more is this hysteria is distracting from the heavy handed vehicle nerfs. The speeding up of PLC and swarm is all that is really needed. Also nerfing afterburners/injectors is swinging the pendulum even further to where no one in their right mind will fly an ADS or run a Madrugar.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 594	Posted - 2014.09.04 21:54:00 - [3] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Its really not. All the variables cannot be seen. Thats why math says one thing but.in lab tests demonstrates something else. In programming, that's called bugs. Programming is not the same as laboratory tests. In a virtual environment that doesn't adhere to any unknown/unaware conditions the math is all that we need to go on. You shouldn't balance a game on bugs you should fix the bugs, your point is still a cop out and moot. If you do feel so strongly that the math can't be trusted you at least need to present a real reason why instead of a hypothetical stance that something else could happen like a tank could fall out of the sky crushing the amarr tanker.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 596	Posted - 2014.09.04 22:19:00 - [4] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Its really not. All the variables cannot be seen. Thats why math says one thing but.in lab tests demonstrates something else. In programming, that's called bugs. Programming is not the same as laboratory tests. In a virtual environment that doesn't adhere to any unknown/unaware conditions the math is all that we need to go on. You shouldn't balance a game on bugs you should fix the bugs, your point is still a cop out and moot. If you do feel so strongly that the math can't be trusted you at least need to present a real reason why instead of a hypothetical stance that something else could happen like a tank could fall out of the sky crushing the amarr tanker. This is why I referenced chicken little. That is a children's story specifically about people fearing the unknown and making a big deal out of it against evidence to the contrary. Again, what am I talking about is unforeseen variables that can only be identified througb testing. Simple. Well, I guess we will test it and see come Delta. Until then, there is no reason for it to be removed from Delta as the math is solid and it will correct the OP nature of the CR and SMG. I run Caldari and Minmitar with shield as my general focus and right now projectile weapons chew me up with their absurd damage profile which, in my opinion, is a point of imbalance.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 596	Posted - 2014.09.04 22:29:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Assuming I didn't **** up the math, check out the Amarr's total Hybrid eHP for the projectile profiles. -5/10 is the same as -20/20 at 1800eHP. Looks like the increase in shield resistance compensates for the loss in armor? Overall the Amarr largely remains unchanged, whereas its pretty much a straight buff for the Caldari and Minmatar. Interesting stuff. Which again for a weapon that's not supposed to be effective against shields seems logical. My biggest issue is that it has more than 200% damage buff when split currently unlike all other damage profiles that balance out at 200%. If the issue is the fact that explosives are -20/20 for varieties sake I see nothing wrong with -15/15. -5/5 and 0/0 are imbalanced by nature though making projectiles the best all around weapons against any form of tank.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 596	Posted - 2014.09.04 22:36:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Assuming I didn't **** up the math, check out the Amarr's total Hybrid eHP for the projectile profiles. -5/10 is the same as -20/20 at 1800eHP. Looks like the increase in shield resistance compensates for the loss in armor? Overall the Amarr largely remains unchanged, whereas its pretty much a straight buff for the Caldari and Minmatar. Interesting stuff. Which again for a weapon that's not supposed to be effective against shields seems logical. My biggest issue is that it has more than 200% damage buff when split currently unlike all other damage profiles that balance out at 200%. are you referring to the -5/+10 profile it currently has? Yes. Currently that adds up to 205% instead of 200% like all other damage profiles.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 596	Posted - 2014.09.04 22:39:00 - [7] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Yes. Currently that adds up to 205% instead of 200% like all other damage profiles. I mean rail tech is -10/10.... Oh, well yeah. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who didn't feel that needed to be changed to a more symmetrical profile. The question is more should it be -5/+5, -10/+10, -15/+15, or -20/+20. And I think either -20/20 to match the amarr counter balance of 20/-20 or -15/15 to make it a unique profile. -5/5 is too close to making it the all purpose weapon good against all tanks. Remember, this doesn't only impact hmgs, this will also bring smgs and CRs down in dps to be more balanced with their counterparts. Remember most smart players don't dual tank all suits and play to the strengths of their suits. This means Caldari will be more resistant to a projectile weapon than Gallente while at the same time amarr tech do the opposite. I hear people complain about rail rifles a lot but if you aren't Amarr or Gallente laser rifles are far more deadly, all weapon profiles should be balanced around this concept of give and take between shield and armor tanking.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 596	Posted - 2014.09.04 22:43:00 - [8] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Yes. Currently that adds up to 205% instead of 200% like all other damage profiles. I mean rail tech is -10/10.... Oh, well yeah. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who didn't feel that needed to be changed to a more symmetrical profile. The question is more should it be -5/+5, -10/+10, -15/+15, or -20/+20. And I think either -20/20 to match the amarr counter balance of 20/-20 or -15/+15 to make it a unique profile. -5/5 is too close to making it the all purpose weapon good against all tanks. Going purely off the numbers, the 15% one feels the most proper to me, but that's just my opinion. Since explosives are -20/20 I tend to agree.