DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] Hotfix Delta Narrative

BL4CKST4R wrote:

S-PANZA wrote:

With the Delta proposal for snipers it reminds me of throwing chum in shark (sniper haters) infested waters and creating a feeding frenzy.

That snipers are risk-free is a fallacy, posts #29 and #30 address that as do others that point out how ADS are a major risk to snipers.

Every decent sniper knows that all snipers can be counter sniped, I agree some are harder than others but all can be countered. I understand that the slayer mentality player doesnt want to delay the slayer play style to deal with a sniper or that slayers dont like to snipe (hence the resistance to use a counter sniper). I understand that slayers want to casually walk up to a crouching aiming sniper and kill it EZ. Snipers are attracted to the long shot not the mid-range shot or CQC. The argument to reduce range isnt because snipers are risk-free, its more that slayers dont want deal with what counters a sniper.

Sniper rifles are for the most part UP. The Charge (proto) and Thales (officer) are the most damaging ones and they should be. As far as risk/reward , the snipers are lower risk but are rewarded less. Anyone that says they are no-risk and high reward are trying to sell you a bridge.

Sniper is low risk low reward until you get yourself a CK.0 Calamando a thales 3 damage mods and a f*** of armor HP. Also it's hard to counter a sniper when there are no tracers, if your counter sniping and you cannot spot the sniper that you are trying to snipe and he sees you that's it you already lost, most of the time its pretty hard to find a sniper and eliminate him. Also most snipers can snipe deep into the redzone where dropships can't go, and if a dropship does get ballzy and your in your Calamando you deserve to die for not fitting a swarm launcher, so even dropships have a counter when sniping. And as infantry the "slayers" you cannot counter if a) you can't find him b) he is in a super stacked suit c) if he is in one of those special sniper areas where bullets magically disappear.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
S-PANZA Expert Intervention Caldari State 34	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:32:00 - [1] - Quote Ive noticed that these feedback posts usually cater to a handfull that dedicate themselves to be forum warriors and lobby for changes to benefit their play styles. The different classes of drop suits implies different play styles, some like offensive oriented slayer type of play while others enjoy defensive and each choose a class accordingly. Devs should be unbiased when making changes and not buckle to the popular forum rants. Consider the forum posters are a minority in the playing community, the majority of players dont post. This brings me to the Snipers. Seems like snipers are always hated and thats part of a snipers draw. All I ever hear from haters is how ineffective snipers are, how theyre not helping the team because they arent on the battle front slaying. Described by most an inconvenience rather than a threat . Well snipers arent slayers , they are specialists. A slayer feels satisfaction with his ability to scurry around with his gunplay, a sniper gets satisfaction by head shooting a cloaked scout running across an open area at 10 mps at 500 m. Different accomplishments with different skills. Considering a range reduction to snipers is ridiculous,by definition a sniper is someone that shoots from a concealed distant position. The argument that there is no counter has been brought up before and has been responded by many saying every thing from counter sniper to Kamikaze DS with militia heavy fits dropping on snipers. If anything snipers need a buff to damage , better zoom and hit detection . While were talking about changes , the reticle should be changed back to a dot for better accuracy. To nerf the sniper in any way will alienate a group of players from the game . Will reduce the diversity even further by forcing a mid range / CQC slayer only type of game.
S-PANZA Expert Intervention Caldari State 36	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:53:00 - [2] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Cat Merc wrote: The game is risk/reward driven, sitting in a concealed position 500m away in the redline is probably one of the lowest risk things you can do. Hence the reward being the stupidly useless sniper rifle we have now. If you want buffs, you have to give up range so that you are closer to the action. You can do more damage, but expect for people to be able to retaliate. People can retaliate now - see my first post in this thread, #29 for your reference. Wanna know what I think is the lowest risk thing you can do? Run a 1500+ eHP suit with a 700+ DPS weapon that never runs out of ammo (equipment spam) and receives constant armor repair (from the three armor repping nanohives that serve for the few seconds every now and then when your logi with the PRO rep tool gets killed - you know the one, that PRO logi with enough HP to tank 2+ rounds from a Charge SR?). I don't know how those guys sleep at night, all that risk, I'd have PTSD if I played like that. It's gotta be so horrible going 50/0 and collecting 500k+ ISK payouts every match! Boy, those snipers going 15/1, 20/3 and the like, collecting their 180-250k ISK payouts, they sure have so much reward by comparison. The only time a sniper goes without deaths is when they're not showing up in the killfeed enough to make anyone care about neutralizing them. ^ This
S-PANZA Expert Intervention Caldari State 39	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:55:00 - [3] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Rattati, could you give us the average KD of snipers? I think it would be an interesting metric to see. If it's higher than average by a large margin, then you can definitely say that they are safer than others Or better yet, average deaths per match for snipers. Pretty sure it will be lower than other infantry... I thought KD was an insignificant stat in this game. How about average WP gained snipers vs others , that would be more reflective of a risk vs reward system.
S-PANZA Expert Intervention Caldari State 39	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:08:00 - [4] - Quote Tech De Ra wrote: S-PANZA wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Rattati, could you give us the average KD of snipers? I think it would be an interesting metric to see. If it's higher than average by a large margin, then you can definitely say that they are safer than others Or better yet, average deaths per match for snipers. Pretty sure it will be lower than other infantry... I thought KD was an insignificant stat in this game. How about average WP gained snipers vs others , that would be more reflective of a risk vs reward system. KD is a good indication of risk to the user of said weapon May be an indication of the risk but snipers arent highly rewarded and snipers that go 10+ kills in the game are usually full proto , which means theyll probably go negative isk if killed once.
S-PANZA Expert Intervention Caldari State 52	Posted - 2014.09.01 17:11:00 - [5] - Quote On the topic of Sniper rifles, Google Barrett M107, its a 21st century rifle and take note of the effective range and damage that is does. Enuf said. EDIT: Manufactured in the 20th century.
S-PANZA Expert Intervention Caldari State 54	Posted - 2014.09.03 19:43:00 - [6] - Quote With the Delta proposal for snipers it reminds me of throwing chum in shark (sniper haters) infested waters and creating a feeding frenzy. That snipers are risk-free is a fallacy, posts #29 and #30 address that as do others that point out how ADS are a major risk to snipers. Every decent sniper knows that all snipers can be counter sniped, I agree some are harder than others but all can be countered. I understand that the slayer mentality player doesnt want to delay the slayer play style to deal with a sniper or that slayers dont like to snipe (hence the resistance to use a counter sniper). I understand that slayers want to casually walk up to a crouching aiming sniper and kill it EZ. Snipers are attracted to the long shot not the mid-range shot or CQC. The argument to reduce range isnt because snipers are risk-free, its more that slayers dont want deal with what counters a sniper. Sniper rifles are for the most part UP. The Charge (proto) and Thales (officer) are the most damaging ones and they should be. As far as risk/reward , the snipers are lower risk but are rewarded less. Anyone that says they are no-risk and high reward are trying to sell you a bridge.
S-PANZA Expert Intervention Caldari State 54	Posted - 2014.09.03 20:38:00 - [7] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: S-PANZA wrote: With the Delta proposal for snipers it reminds me of throwing chum in shark (sniper haters) infested waters and creating a feeding frenzy. That snipers are risk-free is a fallacy, posts #29 and #30 address that as do others that point out how ADS are a major risk to snipers. Every decent sniper knows that all snipers can be counter sniped, I agree some are harder than others but all can be countered. I understand that the slayer mentality player doesnt want to delay the slayer play style to deal with a sniper or that slayers dont like to snipe (hence the resistance to use a counter sniper). I understand that slayers want to casually walk up to a crouching aiming sniper and kill it EZ. Snipers are attracted to the long shot not the mid-range shot or CQC. The argument to reduce range isnt because snipers are risk-free, its more that slayers dont want deal with what counters a sniper. Sniper rifles are for the most part UP. The Charge (proto) and Thales (officer) are the most damaging ones and they should be. As far as risk/reward , the snipers are lower risk but are rewarded less. Anyone that says they are no-risk and high reward are trying to sell you a bridge. Sniper is low risk low reward until you get yourself a CK.0 Calamando a thales 3 damage mods and a f*** of armor HP. Also it's hard to counter a sniper when there are no tracers, if your counter sniping and you cannot spot the sniper that you are trying to snipe and he sees you that's it you already lost, most of the time its pretty hard to find a sniper and eliminate him. Also most snipers can snipe deep into the redzone where dropships can't go, and if a dropship does get ballzy and your in your Calamando you deserve to die for not fitting a swarm launcher, so even dropships have a counter when sniping. And as infantry the "slayers" you cannot counter if a) you can't find him b) he is in a super stacked suit c) if he is in one of those special sniper areas where bullets magically disappear. A sniper should be hard to spot... there are no tracers but there are directional hit markers and distance shown...the fatter the suit the easier to spot. ADS can go into redline just have to watch timer...Calmando with a swarm wont kill ADS by himself unless the pilot hovers for him and most pilots know better and if your so deep into the red line your reducing the amount of targets available which means less rewards.
S-PANZA Expert Intervention Caldari State 54	Posted - 2014.09.03 20:51:00 - [8] - Quote [quote=Temias Mercurial] Quote: The other issue with snipers is hit boxes (not hit detection). You can see them poking their heads of the hills in the back of the map, but if you're not of an equal or higher height, then you can do absolutely no damage to them as a counter sniper. This is especially apparent when discovering someone sitting atop the MCC, and killing them can be nearly impossible depending on their exact location on it, as the MCC's hit box extends beyond the actual MCC model. Not true, Ive killed every sniper Ive seen on top of the MCC....and I no doubt have been lower than them. In fact they are EZ to kill, they show up real good. That was with the old reticule.