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Adipem Nothi wrote:

Dustbunny Durrr wrote:

Rattati: For the true problem (and solution) to the ADS/Swarm debate, continue reading:

The issue with swarms against ADS, at the moment is, swarms are a temporary area denial weapon, rather than a weapon that can really kill an ADS.

Many are recommending buffing the damage or speed of swarms (sometimes with an accompanying nerf in swarm agility).

These will not solve the greater problem between swarms and ADS however. The problem isn't that swarms don't do enough damage, or fly fast enough. The problem with swarms is that they don't get kills. The ADS ALWAYS fly away.

Why does an ADS ALWAYS afterburn away? Here we can find the solution to the problem: Because they have NO OTHER OPTION.

So how do we fix this? Let's take a look at the tank (HAV), to understand. Why don't tanks run at the first sign of trouble? (Oh sure, some might immediately turn on their OD, and get out of there at the first sign of trouble, but for a vast majority, it's not the same feeling as an ADS who is getting swarmed).

The answer is simple: they think they can stay, fight and win. If they are right, they get their kill, the swarmer is dead, and the tank continues on, happy on his merry way. If they are overconfident in their abilities, their tank dies, and the swarmer is happy.

So why doesn't a similar situation exist in the ADS/Swarm launcher. Two reasons: Knockback and lack of EHP (yes, you read that right, TOO MUCH swarm damage is causing swarms to NOT get kills). Follow me on this.

If an ADS pilot knows the swarmer can kill him in 3 hits (before having to reload) and he DOESN'T THINK he has a decent chance to kill the swarmer before he gets his 3rd shot off, his ONLY OPTION is to RUN. Swarm knockback further complicates issues as the ADS pilot now can't even shoot/fly straight.

Requiring 4 hits (3 + reload time + 1) to kill a decently-tanked ADS, and reducing or removing knockback, will get many ADS pilots to stay, fight, and maybe lose their dropship, similar to the tank vs swarmer aspect we have now.

Yes, it sounds ludicrous. Yes, there will be a backlash from people not understanding the issue, and not understanding why ADS pilots run. But most importantly, yes, it will work. Test it out, and you will see.

-Durrr

We've already tried less threatening swarms. How would this be any different?


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Dustbunny Durrr ReD or DeaD 265	Posted - 2014.09.04 20:06:00 - [1] - Quote Rattati: For the true problem (and solution) to the ADS/Swarm debate, continue reading: The issue with swarms against ADS, at the moment is, swarms are a temporary area denial weapon, rather than a weapon that can really kill an ADS. Many are recommending buffing the damage or speed of swarms (sometimes with an accompanying nerf in swarm agility). These will not solve the greater problem between swarms and ADS however. The problem isn't that swarms don't do enough damage, or fly fast enough. The problem with swarms is that they don't get kills. The ADS ALWAYS fly away. Why does an ADS ALWAYS afterburn away? Here we can find the solution to the problem: Because they have NO OTHER OPTION. So how do we fix this? Let's take a look at the tank (HAV), to understand. Why don't tanks run at the first sign of trouble? (Oh sure, some might immediately turn on their OD, and get out of there at the first sign of trouble, but for a vast majority, it's not the same feeling as an ADS who is getting swarmed). The answer is simple: they think they can stay, fight and win. If they are right, they get their kill, the swarmer is dead, and the tank continues on, happy on his merry way. If they are overconfident in their abilities, their tank dies, and the swarmer is happy. So why doesn't a similar situation exist in the ADS/Swarm launcher. Two reasons: Knockback and lack of EHP (yes, you read that right, TOO MUCH swarm damage is causing swarms to NOT get kills). Follow me on this. If an ADS pilot knows the swarmer can kill him in 3 hits (before having to reload) and he DOESN'T THINK he has a decent chance to kill the swarmer before he gets his 3rd shot off, his ONLY OPTION is to RUN. Swarm knockback further complicates issues as the ADS pilot now can't even shoot/fly straight. Requiring 4 hits (3 + reload time + 1) to kill a decently-tanked ADS, and reducing or removing knockback, will get many ADS pilots to stay, fight, and maybe lose their dropship, similar to the tank vs swarmer aspect we have now. Yes, it sounds ludicrous. Yes, there will be a backlash from people not understanding the issue, and not understanding why ADS pilots run. But most importantly, yes, it will work. Test it out, and you will see. -Durrr
Dustbunny Durrr ReD or DeaD 271	Posted - 2014.09.06 00:20:00 - [2] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Dustbunny Durrr wrote: Rattati: For the true problem (and solution) to the ADS/Swarm debate, continue reading: The issue with swarms against ADS, at the moment is, swarms are a temporary area denial weapon, rather than a weapon that can really kill an ADS. Many are recommending buffing the damage or speed of swarms (sometimes with an accompanying nerf in swarm agility). These will not solve the greater problem between swarms and ADS however. The problem isn't that swarms don't do enough damage, or fly fast enough. The problem with swarms is that they don't get kills. The ADS ALWAYS fly away. Why does an ADS ALWAYS afterburn away? Here we can find the solution to the problem: Because they have NO OTHER OPTION. So how do we fix this? Let's take a look at the tank (HAV), to understand. Why don't tanks run at the first sign of trouble? (Oh sure, some might immediately turn on their OD, and get out of there at the first sign of trouble, but for a vast majority, it's not the same feeling as an ADS who is getting swarmed). The answer is simple: they think they can stay, fight and win. If they are right, they get their kill, the swarmer is dead, and the tank continues on, happy on his merry way. If they are overconfident in their abilities, their tank dies, and the swarmer is happy. So why doesn't a similar situation exist in the ADS/Swarm launcher. Two reasons: Knockback and lack of EHP (yes, you read that right, TOO MUCH swarm damage is causing swarms to NOT get kills). Follow me on this. If an ADS pilot knows the swarmer can kill him in 3 hits (before having to reload) and he DOESN'T THINK he has a decent chance to kill the swarmer before he gets his 3rd shot off, his ONLY OPTION is to RUN. Swarm knockback further complicates issues as the ADS pilot now can't even shoot/fly straight. Requiring 4 hits (3 + reload time + 1) to kill a decently-tanked ADS, and reducing or removing knockback, will get many ADS pilots to stay, fight, and maybe lose their dropship, similar to the tank vs swarmer aspect we have now. Yes, it sounds ludicrous. Yes, there will be a backlash from people not understanding the issue, and not understanding why ADS pilots run. But most importantly, yes, it will work. Test it out, and you will see. -Durrr We've already tried less threatening swarms. How would this be any different? As far as I recall it was tanks that were the problem back then. I don't exactly remember seeing swarms of Assault Dropships everywhere.