DUST Search - Question for CCP Rattati

Cruor Abominare wrote:

SponkSponkSponk wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Logibro and I have discussed theoretically...

Seriously, resist modules would eliminate the problem of dual tanking, bar some ultra-niche fits.

This is an eve player fallacy that stems from people not actually understanding eve. They see that there is dual tanking here while they've been told countless times in eve dual tanking is bad (but not appropriately why).

They look at the modules and say hey no resist mods thats why theres dual tanking!

This isn't true.

Dual tanking in eve is **** because of how modules are costed. Utility and or resist mods are incredibly cheap to fit compared to hp tank mods. You can't actually fit tank mods for both tanks and have anything functional in eve because of fitting costs, with a smattering of how much premium is on certain slots like midslots which the first 2 are basically spoken for to begin with. (point and prop mod)

In dust hp mods are ridiculously cheap on fitting costs while utility mods are horrendously over priced. At this point in terms of what you can fit whats going to give you the most utility more often than not, is more hp mods.

You can actually solve the dual tanking problem by fixing the poor job done on mod fitting costs. If you try to fix it with just pure resist mods then you'll just see dual tanking with whatever combination of resist/hp mods works out to give you the most hp. Ideally if you really want to go this route you make resist mods opposite slots as hp mods and finagle the numbers to try to give more hp than hp mods on both tiers. Then we get into HP bloat and mess with ttk all over again. Its far easier to just fix fitting costs now rather than introduce a new module set and worry about half a dozen other consideration including still having to rework fitting costs.

Edit: I'm all for resist mods at some point, but its not going to fix what you think it is. Damage type resist mods could be helpful in giving players the tools to deal with run away weapons. Think everyone is running about with scram rifles and they're broken as ****? Hello EM resist.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11858	Posted - 2014.08.29 04:13:00 - [1] - Quote What are the chances of us getting infantry resist modules? :3 Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7388	Posted - 2014.08.29 04:14:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: What are the chances of us getting infantry resist modules? :3 Legion Also, do you never sleep? Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11859	Posted - 2014.08.29 04:39:00 - [3] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Cat Merc wrote: What are the chances of us getting infantry resist modules? :3 Legion Also, do you never sleep? My sleep cycle is so weird that even I don't understand it at this point. I actually went 36 hours without sleep without being tired. Today I went to sleep 3 hours after waking up. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13108	Posted - 2014.08.29 04:40:00 - [4] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Cat Merc wrote: What are the chances of us getting infantry resist modules? :3 Legion Also, do you never sleep? My sleep cycle is so weird that even I don't understand it at this point. I actually went 36 hours without sleep without being tired. Today I went to sleep 3 hours after waking up. 1 Cat Sleep is = to 7 human sleeps "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1833	Posted - 2014.08.29 04:45:00 - [5] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: What are the chances of us getting infantry resist modules? :3 weird that a gallente asks this when it's more of an Amarr thing Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 316	Posted - 2014.08.29 04:49:00 - [6] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Cat Merc wrote: What are the chances of us getting infantry resist modules? :3 Legion Also, do you never sleep? My sleep cycle is so weird that even I don't understand it at this point. I actually went 36 hours without sleep without being tired. Today I went to sleep 3 hours after waking up. Let me guess, you found a nice cozy laptop to sleep on while the owner was trying to post on the foru RWMnw Sorry... a strange cat just walked in and slept on my laptop... I don't even own a cat :/ Legionhares Unite!
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11860	Posted - 2014.08.29 06:00:00 - [7] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Cat Merc wrote: What are the chances of us getting infantry resist modules? :3 weird that a gallente asks this when it's more of an Amarr thing Gallente are more about resists + reps than reps + HP. Resists don't reduce our glorious speed :P Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6107	Posted - 2014.08.29 06:39:00 - [8] - Quote Logibro and I have discussed theoretically... "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1024	Posted - 2014.08.29 07:04:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Logibro and I have discussed theoretically... Seriously, resist modules would eliminate the problem of dual tanking, bar some ultra-niche fits. Dust/Eve transfers
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 78	Posted - 2014.08.29 07:44:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Logibro and I have discussed theoretically... Why bother when some things on this aren't even implemented or fixed... Fix and add what you can now that you promised and THEN add in extra things. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle

Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 142	Posted - 2014.08.29 07:54:00 - [11] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Logibro and I have discussed theoretically... Seriously, resist modules would eliminate the problem of dual tanking, bar some ultra-niche fits. This is an eve player fallacy that stems from people not actually understanding eve. They see that there is dual tanking here while they've been told countless times in eve dual tanking is bad (but not appropriately why). They look at the modules and say hey no resist mods thats why theres dual tanking! This isn't true. Dual tanking in eve is **** because of how modules are costed. Utility and or resist mods are incredibly cheap to fit compared to hp tank mods. You can't actually fit tank mods for both tanks and have anything functional in eve because of fitting costs, with a smattering of how much premium is on certain slots like midslots which the first 2 are basically spoken for to begin with. (point and prop mod) In dust hp mods are ridiculously cheap on fitting costs while utility mods are horrendously over priced. At this point in terms of what you can fit whats going to give you the most utility more often than not, is more hp mods. You can actually solve the dual tanking problem by fixing the poor job done on mod fitting costs. If you try to fix it with just pure resist mods then you'll just see dual tanking with whatever combination of resist/hp mods works out to give you the most hp. Ideally if you really want to go this route you make resist mods opposite slots as hp mods and finagle the numbers to try to give more hp than hp mods on both tiers. Then we get into HP bloat and mess with ttk all over again. Its far easier to just fix fitting costs now rather than introduce a new module set and worry about half a dozen other consideration including still having to rework fitting costs.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1025	Posted - 2014.08.29 08:57:00 - [12] - Quote I'm well aware that +hp modules are horrendously cheap to fit, while simultaneously being slot-inefficient compared to Eve (a 1600mm plate provides +74% extra armour to a Megathron but nowhere near that for equivalent slots on a Heavy gk.0 in Dust). However, fixing Dust HP stacking just leaves players with multiple free slots with no way for armour suits to spend it on improving their tank, unlike shield suits, which would imbalance the meta. Bonus points when you factor in damage mods in high slots. Adding resist modules provides tension between more tank and utility slots, which allows interesting choices in the fitting screen, while providing a percentage-based +EHP game mechanic that's stacking penalised, which immediately adds additional design space. Dust/Eve transfers
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4710	Posted - 2014.08.29 09:41:00 - [13] - Quote I'd rather have it be an equipment than a module,, something like the scanner where you have to wait for the cooldown to finish before you can use it again. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Kaughst Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 577	Posted - 2014.08.29 09:47:00 - [14] - Quote Last time I heard about this, was about some kind of issue of it not being as obvious to people as when tanks throw on their hardeners. I think CCP wolfman was the one....dont know... The sea of crap is quite an anomaly, staying afloat justified to see exactly what else is in there floating with you.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1025	Posted - 2014.08.29 11:00:00 - [15] - Quote Kaughst wrote: Last time I heard about this, was about some kind of issue of it not being as obvious to people as when tanks throw on their hardeners. I think CCP wolfman was the one....dont know... And yet, the damage reduction bonus on sentinels is widely accepted, even though there's no obvious visual indicator at all. Dust/Eve transfers
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1658	Posted - 2014.08.29 12:02:00 - [16] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Logibro and I have discussed theoretically... Seriously, resist modules would eliminate the problem of dual tanking, bar some ultra-niche fits. How exactly is dual tanking a problem? Isn't it nice to have some fitting diversity (some run damage mods, some shield extenders, etc) rather than every assault HAVING to run its main tank+hardener in order to have a competitive fit? Cos let's face it, that's where resist modules will take us. How many tanks do you see without hardeners?
TechMechMeds KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 5395	Posted - 2014.08.29 13:20:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Logibro and I have discussed theoretically... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174148&find=unread My hometown beat Manchester united. Git gud man utd. 4-0
TechMechMeds KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 5395	Posted - 2014.08.29 13:21:00 - [18] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: What are the chances of us getting infantry resist modules? :3 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174148&find=unread Please give input/deface the idea Thank you. My hometown beat Manchester united. Git gud man utd. 4-0
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1934	Posted - 2014.08.29 13:55:00 - [19] - Quote Cruor Abominare wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Logibro and I have discussed theoretically... Seriously, resist modules would eliminate the problem of dual tanking, bar some ultra-niche fits. This is an eve player fallacy that stems from people not actually understanding eve. They see that there is dual tanking here while they've been told countless times in eve dual tanking is bad (but not appropriately why). They look at the modules and say hey no resist mods thats why theres dual tanking! This isn't true. Dual tanking in eve is ** because of how modules are costed. Utility and or resist mods are incredibly cheap to fit compared to hp tank mods. You can't actually fit tank mods for both tanks and have anything functional in eve because of fitting costs, with a smattering of how much premium is on certain slots like midslots which the first 2 are basically spoken for to begin with. (point and prop mod) In dust hp mods are ridiculously cheap on fitting costs while utility mods are horrendously over priced. At this point in terms of what you can fit whats going to give you the most utility more often than not, is more hp mods. You can actually solve the dual tanking problem by fixing the poor job done on mod fitting costs. If you try to fix it with just pure resist mods then you'll just see dual tanking with whatever combination of resist/hp mods works out to give you the most hp. Ideally if you really want to go this route you make resist mods opposite slots as hp mods and finagle the numbers to try to give more hp than hp mods on both tiers. Then we get into HP bloat and mess with ttk all over again. Its far easier to just fix fitting costs now rather than introduce a new module set and worry about half a dozen other consideration including still having to rework fitting costs. Edit: I'm all for resist mods at some point, but its not going to fix what you think it is. Damage type resist mods could be helpful in giving players the tools to deal with run away weapons. Think everyone is running about with scram rifles and they're broken as **? Hello EM resist. Right. In Eve your weapons and hp mods usually take up like 75% of your resources (20% else is your prop mod). PG is the limiting factor for the size of plates and guns you can use on a given ship where CPU limits everything else.
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 909	Posted - 2014.08.29 14:20:00 - [20] - Quote Ships in EVE also have natural resists that favor either shields or armor in addition to any resist bonus a specific ship might get. This combined with the high cost of tanking modules is why dual tanking in EVE is not only frowned upon, but often laughed at. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.

Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS Top Men. 2687	Posted - 2014.08.29 14:22:00 - [21] - Quote You guys want to get rid of vehicles then ask to turn yourselves into mini tanks? Double standards ftw. Bring These Back i Tanker Turned Ads Pilot !
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11870	Posted - 2014.08.29 16:52:00 - [22] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: You guys want to get rid of vehicles then ask to turn yourselves into mini tanks? Double standards ftw. ummm.... What? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC


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