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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4440
   |
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Or he could just get a respec and not quit Dust.
The anti respec thing blows my mind. I truly don't get it. If anything it devalues the 62.5 mil SP that I have for there to be respecs and I don't care. I just want Dust to be populated and for it to be more competitive.
The OP is a great player so he's not one that would greatly benefit from one. But how many blueberries might be decent with a respec? How many players would come back if they advertised it (newsletter)? There is literally nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4441
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think it comes from Eve.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4445
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:Reads corp name, laughs and cares that much less.
I don't get it
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4447
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I think it comes from Eve. It does. I came to Dust because of it's (supposed) tie to EVE. The back stabbing, team killing, "keep you a$$ cheeks tight cuz you don''t know who's behind you", no place safe that I know and love. Granted, CCP did a lot of things that torpedoed this game long before Fanfest '14. As for the competition part, I already suck, an if I got a respec the points would go right back into the places they are now. The anti-respec crowd also comes from the fact that people whine so much about snipers, forges, tanks, ads, REs, CR, AR, Lazors, Scramblers.... getting the point? Something get's balanced, people respec, now ALL you see in the field is the new FOTM. At least w/o a respec, it takes a few weeks before everyone is running the FOTM.
But if it is unbalanced then it gets balanced quickly. So who cares? This isn't the Dust of 2013 where stuff stayed broken for 6 months. Rattati is doing a good job balancing a game that would be a nightmare to try and balance.
There are a lot of things that could be FOTM right now. I personally think the Gal Scout is the deadliest suit in the hands of the right person, but I don't see them being spammed right now. The Cal Assault is a great suit as well. The CR, the RR, the SCR are all whined about. Then the HMG.
In other words I don't think there is anything like the Calogi of old that you can point to and say "there's the FOTM".
Add in the fact that FW is more active and I think a lot of people would skill into the faction they like. I don't think the FOTM deal carries even remotely the amount of weight that it did 6 months ago.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4447
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:call me cynical but if ccp gave full respecs the vast majority would skill into heavies with hmgs and scouts with shotguns 90% of dust already has that so not much would change.
But I don't buy it.
There are people who decided they like to logi and have SP in all kinds of crap that could be spent on better equipment. You have scouts that want to slay with the new assault suits. You could go on. The biggest benefactors would be the scrubbiest people in Dust that have figured out the skilling system enough to make themselves better with wiser choices.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4449
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Monty Mole Clone wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:call me cynical but if ccp gave full respecs the vast majority would skill into heavies with hmgs and scouts with shotguns 90% of dust already has that so not much would change. i do still get the odd game now and then with variety in dropsuits, but full respecs would kill that off totally
That's BS.
I don't know much about the Gal Assault, but the other three assaults are VERY powerful.
Campers love the Cal Commando with RR. The Amarr and Min scouts are actually viable now (the min scout is crazy fun).
I think more than likely you'll see a lot of people move from scouts and heavies back into assault.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4449
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
IMMORTAL WAR HERO wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:After having all assaults proto since 1.6 I think it's time for a respec. Yes I know it was my choice to skill all assaults but now I have no versatility. And with the upcoming changes to sidearms that'd be the perfect chance for a respec. No I don't have 60m sp I have around 33m. did you miss title of name EVE/dust 514 in eve there are no respecs thats a 10 year game u read spec your stuff if you dont like it allwell get more skillpoints spec next thing if u dont like reading mabey this game is not the one for you....ive been given option of respec but never did it except for forced respecs that never shouldve happened
But Dust has been shelved for a different game because it wasn't as successful as they'd hoped.
Maybe they should have tried leveling out the multipliers a bit and offering respecs. Maybe increased payouts. Maybe made the rollover system a thing.
Perhaps it would wiser to try to appeal to a wider group of people or at least look at an alternative approach when so many veteran players start to leave.
Bigger playerbase > MMO space game mantra
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4449
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:After playing nothing but assaults since day 1 closed beta I just wanted a change of pace. But I guess that'll just have to wait hopefully destiny is good and the halo's 1-4 remastered. Or, you could just train into something else. You've got the core done, right? So throw SP into another suit to adv and play it. You're acting like you can't advance yourself at all anymore.
I think you are missing the point. It appears he doesn't want to grind to something else when he has the SP he could use.
Would it be better if we could update our skill queue and log off for a month?
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4449
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
If you wanted to get down to it, I think Eve would be better off for the next 10 years if they gave players more of a reason to play. Active SP is much better in my opinion than passive SP.
And it's kind of a moot point. Someone in Eve can sell their character and buy one that's skilled the way they like.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4449
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
And there are a lot of people I know that love it too. Just another example of the FOTM crap being overstated.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4449
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
I should say that I wouldn't spend my SP any differently either.
MAYBE I'd skill into the Min Heavy instead of the Cal Heavy and dump my SP from Amarr Commando and Heavy toward getting my Min Commando to proto. Just so I'd have all the Minmatar suits proto.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4449
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Riruodo wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Or he could just get a respec and not quit Dust.
The anti respec thing blows my mind. I truly don't get it. If anything it devalues the 62.5 mil SP that I have for there to be respecs and I don't care. I just want Dust to be populated and for it to be more competitive.. That right there is the reason I believe most of the anti-respec people are against them. A lot of dust players are afraid of competition; of course they'll never admit it but it's easy to tell which of them are (especially when they rage against respecs). Well, for most dust 514 players, there is no competition. You wake up in the morning, brush your teeth, go to battle, die a hundred times, get redlined, come home, brush your teeth, go to bed. Repeat. Actually, it's not that bad, but respecs only really help out vets. That being said, I'm all up for a respec, even though I would probably spec back into everything I have right now.
Maxed out DS upgrades (except for melee mods)
12 ADV (3 proto) suits (4th proto by end of 3x event)
All but Sniper and Plasma Cannon are proto in LW
Both heavy weapons proto
3 proto sidearms and others ADV
If this was you, how would you spend your SP differently to make yourself more powerful as a vet?
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4453
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:Thumb Green wrote:[quote=Thor Odinson42]Or he could just get a respec and not quit Dust.
snip That right there needs to be the final check before doing any change. Will it force people out? I love peer review and good discussions but sometimes the final decision is not going to meet the stated goals, staying with the change while ignoring the negative ramifications is just poor design. When it come to CCP's FPS unless you have extremely large SP totals changes can wreck your abilities to be competive of even enjoy the game. Last December the Devs took a sledge hammer to my Sentinel Main. With the changes of Uprising 1.8 he's playable again but the poor decisions on CCP's part still force me to use one primary weapon (which is still better than none). I'm a fan of targeted SP refunds. If the SP for Forge Guns and Caldari Sentinel were returned a good chunk of my anger towards CCP and Devs would go away. Either or if CCP is going to kick someone in the nuts at least offer them something back. SP is the easiest form of compensation.
It's a nobrainer.
Would people stop playing if people were offered respecs? I find it highly unlikely and it would be dwarfed by the number of people who have rage quit after nerfs.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4453
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Riruodo wrote:why is ccp so against respecs? they could make tons of money by selling respec tickets. And if people are so worried that it allows vets to go fotm every month, then why not make the respec cost x amount of money and x% of life time sp, so you don't get a full refund.
people would still buy the respecs.
I think they'd be better off chasing money elsewhere. FW is the place I think they could make the most money. I could see people buying FW boosters if the right tweaks were made.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4455
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
DozersMouse XIII wrote:instead of asking CCP for a respec we should be asking CCP for a dropsuit command SP refund  they just might fall for it
I agree, but I'd rather all the noobs that have done stupid things with their SP be able to get focused into something more viable.
I'd really love to see an asset refund as well so they might actually fight a little with that more viable suit.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4455
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Or he could just get a respec and not quit Dust.
The anti respec thing blows my mind. I truly don't get it. If anything it devalues the 62.5 mil SP that I have for there to be respecs and I don't care. I just want Dust to be populated and for it to be more competitive.
The OP is a great player so he's not one that would greatly benefit from one. But how many blueberries might be decent with a respec? How many players would come back if they advertised it (newsletter)? There is literally nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain. Simple the anti-respec brigade is all about telling the FoTM chasers to stop being scrubs that chase after the next OP thing and learn to use what you got. If your not happy with what you got then just save up the sp to get what you want. There ar more then enough triple sp events, and even without them you can easily get into a heavy and a forge gun in 1-2 weeks. Not to mention that with the combo of swarm, av nades an proxy mines that an assault suit can very easy take out a tank.
I've already responded to all those things and I still don't see the benefit of NOT doing it.
Which suit do you think is FOTM?
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4462
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:IMMORTAL WAR HERO wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:After playing nothing but assaults since day 1 closed beta I just wanted a change of pace. But I guess that'll just have to wait hopefully destiny is good and the halo's 1-4 remastered. lol i played destiny its a money grab lol And Dust isn't just a money grab?
Not enough of one or we'd be waiting on Dust 2.0 on PS4.
It's weird to me that people are against respecs but they are okay with some players being able to buy AUR gear that gets them into a suit with lower SP. Granted the bonuses aren't as strong, but still.
We all have to agree that games need money to go on. CCP did a good job in making people spend money. It didn't do a good job keeping them around. I blame the lack of respecs as a major factor. I'd also say that the grind was a major factor.
Maybe the rollover system would have prevented people from being so angry when the stuff they grinded for was nerfed. But clocking in like it's a job for weekly cap is a big factor in the hostility.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4462
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:IMMORTAL WAR HERO wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:After having all assaults proto since 1.6 I think it's time for a respec. Yes I know it was my choice to skill all assaults but now I have no versatility. And with the upcoming changes to sidearms that'd be the perfect chance for a respec. No I don't have 60m sp I have around 33m. did you miss title of name EVE/dust 514 in eve there are no respecs thats a 10 year game u read spec your stuff if you dont like it allwell get more skillpoints spec next thing if u dont like reading mabey this game is not the one for you....ive been given option of respec but never did it except for forced respecs that never shouldve happened Um in eve skills are based on real time not sp, so idk what eve your playing but in my eve if i want a new ship i have to wait hours, days, weeks, even months to get them, and there is no such thing as a respec.
So you think Dust would be better off if people logged in and updated their skill queue then logged off?
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4469
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Robocop Junior wrote:Or you can buy my maxed hmg/forge/core heavy gk.0 with 2.5 million unallocated SP for $39.99!
I'd be down with it. But I think it would stop people's heart if CCP announced that.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4470
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Monty Mole Clone wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Soulja Ghostface wrote:Claims to have all assaults proto.
Says he has no versatility Can I use a forge? No... After being vehicle spammed the other day it made me realize assaults aren't everything like I thought they were.. Hell ccp could just transfer my aur and omegas to my alt psn and I'd be happy with that. Since a respec is such a terrible thing apparently. i just went on proto fits and knocked up an a-1 sentinel with proto forge, if your core skills are maxed with this event you could have it in 1 or 2 weeks, nut the **** up man cmon. infact **** combat and rail rifles that is what im skilling next I have all rifles pro 5 they're boring. whats the rifles got to do with anything when you said you wanted av, which i pointed out you could have very quickly?
Explain what it would hurt if he was able to take his SP from Rail Rifle and put it into FG? Try to put some thought into it.
Not just, because Eve.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4474
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Explain what it would hurt if he was able to take his SP from Rail Rifle and put it into FG? Try to put some thought into it.
Not just, because Eve.[/quote]
after this event he could have proto forge and keep his rail, then its just playing the like everybody else
[/quote]
Do you know how to read?
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4474
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 21:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Monty Mole Clone wrote:@thor
he could go av and keep what he has now, it would only take a week or two, i dont see the the problem, sorry i just dont
Likewise. I don't see the problem with the respec.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4474
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 21:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Monty Mole Clone wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Explain what it would hurt if he was able to take his SP from Rail Rifle and put it into FG? Try to put some thought into it. Not just, because Eve. after this event he could have proto forge and keep his rail, then its just playing the like everybody else
I'm not moaning. I don't want SP back. I have 62.5 mil SP.
I want an active playerbase. If respecs keep people around then that's more important than a mantra from a different game.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4475
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 21:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Monty Mole Clone wrote:the op complained about having no av, i pointed out he could have it very quickly.
i get **** on, typical gd logic
I think it's because a lot of people are tired of the anti respec stuff. I'm a huge Dust fan and I'm seeing the game die right before me.
And it bothers me that something that would bring people back (it would, if you argue this then you just want to argue) is frowned up. More than anything frowned up by CCP. I'm honestly starting to believe that there are elements in CCP that don't want Dust/Legion to succeed.
For example, whomever decided to announce Legion the way they did after getting warned by the CPM.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4475
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 21:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:OZAROW wrote:Reads corp name, laughs and cares that much less. I don't get it Heimdallr69 is in Nyain San, the legendary FOTM corp. The one people point to when something is OP and say "See, if it wasn't OP they wouldn't be running squads of it". I don't see them enough anymore to know if it holds true these days. One could look at your corp name and think, "Just a bunch of scrubs. Ignore". However, the mature and level headed won't fall into that trap. And, FYI, Heim is anything but a FOTM chaser -- if anything, he's the antithesis of FOTM. Well you can't deny that NS used to be the FOTM corp that would run squads of whatever was OP at the moment. Of course other corps did as well but NS was iconic for it. And I wasn't calling Heimdallr69 a FOTM chaser, I was merely explaining OZAROW's post to Thor.
I understood what he meant. Just didn't see what it had to do with respecs
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4492
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 01:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Explain what it would hurt if he was able to take his SP from Rail Rifle and put it into FG? Try to put some thought into it. Not just, because Eve. after this event he could have proto forge and keep his rail, then its just playing the like everybody else I'm not moaning. I don't want SP back. I have 62.5 mil SP. I want an active playerbase. If respecs keep people around then that's more important than a mantra from a different game. Eve and dust are not 2 different games they are 2 parts of a whole game, we have eve the space pilots that support us with troop transport, albeit it is mostly npc based but that could have been done differently, and the foot troops fight on the ground, meaning dust. They are based of the same lore so how are they different games? Basically a respec will punish the players that have planned out there sp and put in in the key areas for the role they wanted to play and rewards the players that chased after the next OP things and didn't bother putting it in the areas that are important for their roles. What a respec will do is tell everyone "To Hell With Proper Skill Planning and Just Chase After whatever is OP at the time and when that changes just cry and whine and b!tch and you will get to put your sp in the next OP things" and that would just ruin the game way more then the CoD scrubs did when they started playing the game. I hear so many FoTM chasers that skilled into the min scout crying to remove the hacking bonus in place of an Ewar skill or change the hacking skills to effect the cloaks. Yet the people that have been a min scout from the start understand that min scouts don't need ewar passives on the suit because it runs just fine without it. It is the players like that, that have no real understand of how the suit works because they keep switching suits and weapons as soon as the next OP stuff is put in effect, and that is what the anti-respec bgade is trying to prevent, rewarding the FoTM chase instead of rewarding the players that planned where their skills go.
I don't know how anyone can have this view while seeing the decline of the playerbase. Ever honestly thought that maybe the SP and skilling system along with the wild swings in development are part of the problem? Ever thought that maybe some people just don't feel like they should have to grind away because the Devs made something OP then over nerfed it? In other words there may be a substantial number of people who don't feel they should suffer because of CCP's mistakes? Maybe once or twice, but what if a nerf bat hits them a third time?
I loathe FOTM whiners almost as much as proto whiners because it blames players for using their SP and ISK for things made available by CCP. Shouldn't there have been some player council or something that gave their seal of approval before skilling into things? This way you'd have credibility when calling for balance because you weren't a FOTM chaser? We could have called them the "Crystal Ball Council".
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4495
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 02:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:843-Vika wrote:snip
Basically a respec will punish the players that have planned out there sp and put in in the key areas for the role they wanted to play
snip Ever since Uprising I have very carefully planned out my SP expenditures on three accounts. Sometimes waiting months for the next patch just to be sure another upset doesn't happen. Yet CCP successfully nulled my choices with careless nerfs followed by apathy or ignorance to the problems. How can our choices matter in a hostile development environment?
You should have used the orange crystal ball, they stopped using the yellow one back in February.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4514
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 13:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sum1ne Else wrote:BlazeXYZ wrote:Respec after delta. Reasonable and logical. I honestly think its coming. The end is near. This will be the final patch, then a respec to end all respecs and also patches. Server closes in the near future. I am feeling some MAG nostalgia coming here.
I wasn't involved in MAG, but the financial stuff going on with CCP and the tight lips in regards to Legion has me doubting it will ever happen.
After FF I was uber pissed, then very optimistic. But now I'm thinking they are done with FPS. I think companies have a tendency to go back to basics when they are having issues. I could see CCP going all in on what got them here and focusing 100% on Eve.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4515
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 14:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:RayRay James wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:After playing nothing but assaults since day 1 closed beta I just wanted a change of pace. But I guess that'll just have to wait hopefully destiny is good and the halo's 1-4 remastered. Or, you could just train into something else. You've got the core done, right? So throw SP into another suit to adv and play it. You're acting like you can't advance yourself at all anymore. I think you are missing the point. It appears he doesn't want to grind to something else when he has the SP he could use. Would it be better if we could update our skill queue and log off for a month? Essentially you can do that here. You can do EXACTLY that in EVE. Many people do in fact. It's not a grind, in my opinion. You're asking for instant gratification. Sure, CCP made some drastic changes to suits, but they've done the same to ships in EVE. The difference is the absolute $hitstorm of complaints here in Dust vs the small, moderately upset amount of players in EVE. If you want to train into a different suit or weapon, go right ahead. By the end of the week, you'll have both to advanced, by the end of the month you'll have both to proto. Is it really that hard to wait 7 days or 30 days? If it is, you need to put down the controller and find something else to do.
But what you are talking about is what you'd say as a counselor to someone with a gaming addiction. NOT what you'd talk about inside a gaming company when talking about how to keep your customers satisfied and continuing to spend money on your game.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4517
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Posted - 2014.08.29 16:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:RayRay James wrote:
Essentially you can do that here. You can do EXACTLY that in EVE. Many people do in fact.
It's not a grind, in my opinion. You're asking for instant gratification. Sure, CCP made some drastic changes to suits, but they've done the same to ships in EVE. The difference is the absolute $hitstorm of complaints here in Dust vs the small, moderately upset amount of players in EVE. If you want to train into a different suit or weapon, go right ahead. By the end of the week, you'll have both to advanced, by the end of the month you'll have both to proto. Is it really that hard to wait 7 days or 30 days?
If it is, you need to put down the controller and find something else to do.
Except it is a grind, to gain any meaningful amount of SP you have to play and eventually you have to play for a month just to bump up one skill one level maybe even longer depending on how stubborn Scotty wants to be about putting you on the sh!t team that gets stomped. If that's not a grind in your opinion then nothing is. The reason people don't flip out on EVE like they do on Dust is EVE players don't have to grind; they just queue up some skills and then do whatever the hell they want. So when something is changed in EVE it's no big deal cause they'll do just that. But when something is changed in Dust it can completely invalidate months of play time. Take the slot change on Amarr & Gal Sentinels, I specifically grinded for the SP to skill into the Amarr suit because of the layout it had and now all that time has been wasted and flushed down the toilet by CCP and I had to start over to get that slot layout. The difference is, EVE players don't have to worry about their time being wasted whereas any update to Dust could completely invalidate months of time. Of course for us vets that's not a big deal, like I said earlier we've already got enough SP spread out to fall back on but for new players it's enough to make them want to quit and the ones that stay have to grind for a month or more all while getting their asses stomped because of a change.
That's the thing. MY VIEWPOINT is 100% tied to Dust appealing to the existing players and perhaps eliminating some of the issues that new players become discouraged about.
They put Dust on a console. A vast majority of the players who have downloaded and played Dust have no idea about Eve or a 10 year laser focused dev cycle. They just see a very complex FPS with a very longterm skilling plan and when things are changed they may up and leave. They don't have the passion that the vets had when seeing the longterm possibilities of Dust. Perhaps this is why they so abruptly dropped the bomb on no Dust and Legion on PC, but I'd adamantly argue with anyone who thinks that was even remotely the correct approach.
Then you have the vets who have grinded, they have moved on to the next thing when something was over nerfed. Or they have stuck with one thing and become tired of it. They didn't buy boosters or cap out every week, but they've been here since beta. They may see 20 mil SP spent in areas they don't WANT to use. In this case I'd much rather them get to reallocate that SP than just wait 4 months for passive SP to accrue. This one in particular is the one that makes me scratch my head about. Why would people who love Dust rather see those people disappear for long stretches? Just so they may or may not skill into something that is in their opinion OP. It seems like a terribly self defeating stance.
There are more flavors of people who don't fit the FOTM chaser profile. And I even argue that the FOTM chasers help identify things that are OP.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2014.08.29 16:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Thumb Green wrote:RayRay James wrote:
Essentially you can do that here. You can do EXACTLY that in EVE. Many people do in fact.
It's not a grind, in my opinion. You're asking for instant gratification. Sure, CCP made some drastic changes to suits, but they've done the same to ships in EVE. The difference is the absolute $hitstorm of complaints here in Dust vs the small, moderately upset amount of players in EVE. If you want to train into a different suit or weapon, go right ahead. By the end of the week, you'll have both to advanced, by the end of the month you'll have both to proto. Is it really that hard to wait 7 days or 30 days?
If it is, you need to put down the controller and find something else to do.
Except it is a grind, to gain any meaningful amount of SP you have to play and eventually you have to play for a month just to bump up one skill one level maybe even longer depending on how stubborn Scotty wants to be about putting you on the sh!t team that gets stomped. If that's not a grind in your opinion then nothing is. The reason people don't flip out on EVE like they do on Dust is EVE players don't have to grind; they just queue up some skills and then do whatever the hell they want. So when something is changed in EVE it's no big deal cause they'll do just that. But when something is changed in Dust it can completely invalidate months of play time. Take the slot change on Amarr & Gal Sentinels, I specifically grinded for the SP to skill into the Amarr suit because of the layout it had and now all that time has been wasted and flushed down the toilet by CCP and I had to start over to get that slot layout. The difference is, EVE players don't have to worry about their time being wasted whereas any update to Dust could completely invalidate months of time. Of course for us vets that's not a big deal, like I said earlier we've already got enough SP spread out to fall back on but for new players it's enough to make them want to quit and the ones that stay have to grind for a month or more all while getting their asses stomped because of a change. You don't have to play at all, you still earn SP, just not as fast.
That's a given. Nobody HAS to play. But if you like Dust, why would you want that to be one of the options that so many choose? Who does that benefit for fewer people to log in?
At this point Dust will ALWAYS be the lobby shooter that it's been. The longterm plan is gone. So now here we are trying to keep this game alive as long as possible. Why hold on to the 10 yr plan as your mantra if it is no longer part of the equation?
It makes no sense.
What little we've been told about Legion is that many of the things that have led to the Respec vs Anti-respec discussion will no longer be an issue. Suits will have the same amount of slots instead of tiers.
Do you work for Bungie?
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4528
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Posted - 2014.08.29 18:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:
That's a given. Nobody HAS to play. But if you like Dust, why would you want that to be one of the options that so many choose? Who does that benefit for fewer people to log in?
At this point Dust will ALWAYS be the lobby shooter that it's been. The longterm plan is gone. So now here we are trying to keep this game alive as long as possible. Why hold on to the 10 yr plan as your mantra if it is no longer part of the equation?
It makes no sense.
What little we've been told about Legion is that many of the things that have led to the Respec vs Anti-respec discussion will no longer be an issue. Suits will have the same amount of slots instead of tiers.
Do you work for Bungie?
If you read back ,you'll see that he was saying the only way to make SP was to grind, my response was that he didnt because you don't have to play to make SP. You say Dust is unique, but then that it's just like every lobby shooter. You say don't hold on to the 10 year plan, make it like CoD at this point. I say No, leave it the way it is. There's no more development. There's not going to be a massive influx of new players. Respecs won't bring the disenfranchised players back, respecs will lead to most everyone throwing their SP into the Sentinel/BHMG and Scout/Shotty suits that others on the forums are wildly complaining about. Also, no, I don't work for Bungie. I install and program home automation systems.
It's not like every other lobby shooter. It's very different. But allowing respecs doesn't change what is unique about Dust. Some people don't like to play for a day and have a maxed out character.
I'd honestly like them to embrace the lobby shooter aspect a bit more now that we are stuck where we are. Some minor changes on the back end and I think it could help fund Legion.
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Thor Odinson42
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Posted - 2014.08.29 18:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:You know what it's fine we don't need a respec o7. I'm done here.
It gets tiring fast.
I'm done as well. All seven of the anti-respec dudes can keep discussing it's merits in a year when they are playing each other battle after battle.
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Thor Odinson42
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Posted - 2014.08.29 18:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:You know what it's fine we don't need a respec o7. I'm done here. It gets tiring fast. I'm done as well. All seven of the anti-respec dudes can keep discussing it's merits in a year when they are playing each other battle after battle. In a year, no one will be playing Dust because the servers will be shut down so it won't matter.
It's weird which things you hold on to that CCP says and which ones you don't.
They have no plans to shut Dust down. It just won't get developed in the way we all thought it would. We are stuck with hotfixes.
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Thor Odinson42
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Posted - 2014.08.29 18:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:RayRay James wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:You know what it's fine we don't need a respec o7. I'm done here. It gets tiring fast. I'm done as well. All seven of the anti-respec dudes can keep discussing it's merits in a year when they are playing each other battle after battle. In a year, no one will be playing Dust because the servers will be shut down so it won't matter. Then why do you care if people get respecs or not?
Makes me twitch a little trying to figure it out.
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Thor Odinson42
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:You know what it's fine we don't need a respec o7. I'm done here. It gets tiring fast. I'm done as well. All seven of the anti-respec dudes can keep discussing it's merits in a year when they are playing each other battle after battle. Just because respecs are given out it does not mean more people are going to play. There are to many things about dust that are so poorly handled that drives people away, like the endless nerf/buff cycle, poor rendering, hit dectetion issues, and that's just naming a few. If a new player decides to play as a tanker and then tanks get nerfed into the ground like the flaylock then then they would quit, either because they had to wait a certain time for a respec or if they got it right away and went to infantry they would get stomped because they don't know how to use infantry properly, since infantry plays differently then other fps games. So either way there are many other reasons for new players to quit besides not getting a respec. Besides a respec only help the people who skilled into the last OP thing and not people who are happy where there skills are. Do i have skills in things i don't use sure, since i tried every weapon in dust of course i do, but i know after i finsh certain skills i plan on getting other suit besides my min scout and min sentinel and min commando.
But it MIGHT. People log back in for 3x SP if they hear about it. People come back for hotfixes and they did for patches.
Why wouldn't they come back for a respec?
What would it hurt?
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Thor Odinson42
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:RayRay James wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:You know what it's fine we don't need a respec o7. I'm done here. It gets tiring fast. I'm done as well. All seven of the anti-respec dudes can keep discussing it's merits in a year when they are playing each other battle after battle. In a year, no one will be playing Dust because the servers will be shut down so it won't matter. It's weird which things you hold on to that CCP says and which ones you don't. They have no plans to shut Dust down. It just won't get developed in the way we all thought it would. We are stuck with hotfixes. My reasons and an alternate option are above this post The only reason Dust will still be active in a year is if the same servers are being used for Legion. With all the cuts in personel, (SF, ATL in the US, others overseas) keeping these servers active would be a waste of money. No, they haven't outright said that they are shutting them down, but it would make business sense.
It's only a waste of money because they refuse to implement things that would generate more income.
Poor choices are their part. FW was a big one. They decided to make it an ISK sink AND an AUR sink if people decided to buy AUR for boosters. How f'n ******** is that? I mean really, from a business perspective how stupid is that?
They left a game mode going that was generating billions of ISK for the best of the best in the game and countered with an ISK sink in the gamemode that could have saved Dust. People were pumped about FW, Kane pleaded to not have an ISK sink until there was a player market..
Point being they could make FW an ISK generator that is playable on a constant basis with team deploy (syncs) with a full LP market and people would buy FW boosters. It's right there for the taking, but they continue to ignore it.
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Thor Odinson42
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Then have more events
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Thor Odinson42
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Then have more events Then there's no need for Respecs
Why does it have to be an SP event? These are getting old.
Why not have ISK events?
Have a weekend were FW has increased salvage and officer weapon drops for winning battles.
There are many, many things that could be done. They just haven't been trying very hard. I want more players and better matches. I am obviously having something akin to a religious debate with you about respecs. I see nothing wrong with CCP making an effort to get the players back that they ran off after FF. I think that's a pretty good olive branch.
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Thor Odinson42
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Posted - 2014.08.29 21:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
No I wouldn't pay for a respec because I don't need one.
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