DUST Search - reactive plates question.

Zatara Rought wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Zatara Rought wrote:

People have been asking since forever why not run a plate and a repper vs running 2 reactives.

I always assumed the purpose of the reactive plate was for fits that were low of available slots, but wanted some additional HP and reps at the same time. So to answer your question "Why should I run a reactive instead of a plate and repper" and my answer would be "If you only have one slot left". The advantage of the reactive plate isn't so much the HP or reps, but rather its slot-efficient.

Also I need to check the numbers, but I think reactives have a better HP/speed penalty ratio than normal plates? So in that regard, a reactive plate is really a mix between a Plate/Repper/Ferroscale, which again could be considered an advantage.

This is the conclusion I think all have come to as well. *tips hat*

But should they only be the most useful combo when considering 1 slot?

As previously stated, I wonder if it would be better if the differences were more pronounced between the options.

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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2355	Posted - 2014.08.28 10:05:00 - [1] - Quote Do they benefit from armor repair skills like they get benefit from armor HP skill? If no, why not? What is the advantage of say running two reactives + a repper over a plate + 2 reps? Unless I miss my math mark you get a better fit overall with the basics. Not a ***** thread, looking for insight as to wheether or not any of you monkeys find them worth using on gallente or amarr fits. Their utility for caldari and minmatar is hideously obvious. Are they at all worth considering for fatsuits?
MEDICO RITARDATO Dead Man's Game 267	Posted - 2014.08.28 10:07:00 - [2] - Quote Speed penalty. CCP why do you hate shield???
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2355	Posted - 2014.08.28 10:08:00 - [3] - Quote Edited OP to clarify the question.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3998	Posted - 2014.08.28 10:20:00 - [4] - Quote People have been asking since forever why not run a plate and a repper vs running 2 reactives. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 17447	Posted - 2014.08.28 10:26:00 - [5] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: People have been asking since forever why not run a plate and a repper vs running 2 reactives. When you have modules offering HP, modules offering rep, and modules offering a mix between HP and rep, they're all obviously going to compete with each other. Regardless of how the numbers are done there's always going to be that question of 'can I just beat two reactives with a rep and plate'? Sometimes I feel as if I've encountered the limits of human stupidity. And then, once more, I return to the forums.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3998	Posted - 2014.08.28 10:49:00 - [6] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: People have been asking since forever why not run a plate and a repper vs running 2 reactives. When you have modules offering HP, modules offering rep, and modules offering a mix between HP and rep, they're all obviously going to compete with each other. Regardless of how the numbers are done there's always going to be that question of 'can I just beat two reactives with a rep and plate'? Sure, but the answer to that question would be satisfying if the differences were more distinct and gave each of them a flavor over the other choice. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2956	Posted - 2014.08.28 10:50:00 - [7] - Quote On some fits running a plate with repairer is better other fits reactives and repairer is better you have to try all combinations whenever you are aiming for x repair. WWhen I fit them I set a goal for repair and a goal for HP and I just start fitting them like crazy and whichever gives me the best of the two above with the lowest speed penalty is the right one :) As for the question itself I guess it's because CCP can't make a module benefit from two skills which really sucks because if it could I would get an extra 0.9 repair. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4703	Posted - 2014.08.28 13:09:00 - [8] - Quote Modules are "tagged" as a certain type that determines where it gets the bonus from. For instance, the ACR is tagged as a light weapon, a combat rifle, a projectile weapon, etc The reactive PLATE is tagged as a PLATE, and therefore gets the extra hp rather than extra armor repair. I don't know if it is possible for them to change tags in a hotfix, or if it's even possible to add multiple tags of the same "type" to an item. For instance, trying to tag the reactive as both a plate and a repairer is like trying to tag the ACR as both a light AND a heavy weapon. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2995	Posted - 2014.08.28 15:58:00 - [9] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: People have been asking since forever why not run a plate and a repper vs running 2 reactives. I always assumed the purpose of the reactive plate was for fits that were low of available slots, but wanted some additional HP and reps at the same time. So to answer your question "Why should I run a reactive instead of a plate and repper" and my answer would be "If you only have one slot left". The advantage of the reactive plate isn't so much the HP or reps, but rather its slot-efficient. Also I need to check the numbers, but I think reactives have a better HP/speed penalty ratio than normal plates? So in that regard, a reactive plate is really a mix between a Plate/Repper/Ferroscale, which again could be considered an advantage.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2361	Posted - 2014.08.28 16:11:00 - [10] - Quote Has anyone found using reactives as a primary tank option to be competitive? If so, what fit and why? Im brainstorming ideas to see if they can be more useful than "stopgaps"

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2997	Posted - 2014.08.28 16:51:00 - [11] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Has anyone found using reactives as a primary tank option to be competitive? If so, what fit and why? Im brainstorming ideas to see if they can be more useful than "stopgaps" Lets look at it a little more closely (Assumed all Level 5 Skills on a gk.0 Assault) 2 Reactive Plates 50 CPU 16 PG +132 Armor HP +6 Armor Repair 4.9 Movement Speed 7.2 Sprint Speed 1 Complex Plate 1 Complex Repper 82 CPU 23 PG +148 Armor HP +9.4 Armor Repair 4.75 Movement Speed 6.98 Sprint Speet So in this case the Reactives offer less resource cost for marginally less HP (16 Armor HP) with less of a drop in speed but over 3 less armor repair.If you don't mind less reps and are short of PG/CPU, the reactives are actually not a bad choice for a 2 slot setup, especially with the lower speed cost. 3 Reactive Plates 75 CPU 24 PG +198 Armor HP +9 Armor Repair 4.85 Movement Speed 7.13 Sprint Speed 1 Complex Plate 1 Complex Ferro 1 Complex Repper 105 CPU 31 PG +231 Armor HP +9.4 Armor Repair 4.75 MOvement Speed 6.98 Sprint Speed So again you're getting less HP for better resource cost and speed. Armor repair at this point is effectivly the same, but the armor HP difference is more noticable. At this point its more a matter of "Do you want more armor? Or more speed with less resource cost?" 1 Complex Plate 1 Complex Repper 1 Complex KinCat 109 CPU 37 PG +148 Armor HP +9.4 Armor Repair 4.75 Movement Speed 7.86 Sprint Speed So now it gets kinda weird. Less HP than 3 reactive, marginally better repair rate. Stil more resource cost than the reactives are going to cost you, but you'll also be moving faster. So in this case you get more HP and less resource cost, or you get better movement speed with marginally better repairs. All in all, I don't think there is really any clear "winner". There are of course many combinations and situations that can call for different kinds of fits, so just experiment! Overall Reactives will give you better resource efficiency, but dont allow you to buff a specific stat. Like for me personally I prefer a ton of armor reps, so I stick with those more often than the reactives, so I might use 1 plate and 2 reppers. It all really just comes down to personal style, but overall I dont think one module combination is clearly better than the other in all situations.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2362	Posted - 2014.08.28 17:05:00 - [12] - Quote This last post more or less confirms my suspicions on the matter. Thanks. Behold: the power of math.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2998	Posted - 2014.08.28 17:16:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: This last post more or less confirms my suspicions on the matter. Thanks. Behold: the power of math. Basically, if you can spare the resources, I'd use a mix of modules. If you're tight on PG/CPU, go with reactives to get a balanced fit that doesn't break the resource budget.
Rizlax Yazzax Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 399	Posted - 2014.08.28 18:09:00 - [14] - Quote I use reactives on my GalLogi, can't remember the exact fit but I think I swapped them with plates and kept a rep. Anyway, since GalLogis aren't exactly speedy, I find the reduced speed penalty incredibly helpful. With less tank, more speed and more reps my survivability has gone through the roof. Even though I have less eHP, I can get to safety much easier and recover faster. I can't comment on other classes - my scout is tankless and my heavy is full plates. I guess it all depends on personal preference. The above works for me as it compliments my play style. For others it may hinder them. My advice would be to try them on a few fits, see if you can make it work.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6072	Posted - 2014.08.29 02:03:00 - [15] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: People have been asking since forever why not run a plate and a repper vs running 2 reactives. I always assumed the purpose of the reactive plate was for fits that were low of available slots, but wanted some additional HP and reps at the same time. So to answer your question "Why should I run a reactive instead of a plate and repper" and my answer would be "If you only have one slot left". The advantage of the reactive plate isn't so much the HP or reps, but rather its slot-efficient. Also I need to check the numbers, but I think reactives have a better HP/speed penalty ratio than normal plates? So in that regard, a reactive plate is really a mix between a Plate/Repper/Ferroscale, which again could be considered an advantage. Could not have said it better, thumbs up "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2374	Posted - 2014.08.29 02:44:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: People have been asking since forever why not run a plate and a repper vs running 2 reactives. I always assumed the purpose of the reactive plate was for fits that were low of available slots, but wanted some additional HP and reps at the same time. So to answer your question "Why should I run a reactive instead of a plate and repper" and my answer would be "If you only have one slot left". The advantage of the reactive plate isn't so much the HP or reps, but rather its slot-efficient. Also I need to check the numbers, but I think reactives have a better HP/speed penalty ratio than normal plates? So in that regard, a reactive plate is really a mix between a Plate/Repper/Ferroscale, which again could be considered an advantage. Could not have said it better, thumbs up Assperimentation* time. *when an ass experiments with things. Expect hilarity to ensue in game somewhere.
Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 142	Posted - 2014.08.29 03:18:00 - [17] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: People have been asking since forever why not run a plate and a repper vs running 2 reactives. We even play the same game bro? Enh plate + cmp armor rep 110 hp 7.5 hp/s 2 Cmp Reactives 120 hp 8 hp/s the reactive are cheaper via fitting and give you more hp less than half the speed reduction as well. With max skills the repper gets a tiny bit more repping than the reactive combo. Oh and the reactive plates mean you can ignore another required million sp. Unless you plan to be barely more mobile than an installation and stack cmp armor plates reactive are 100% better way to go.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1933	Posted - 2014.08.29 04:31:00 - [18] - Quote Not to mention that reactive a have a far less severe speed penalty.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1933	Posted - 2014.08.29 04:33:00 - [19] - Quote And no, the repair isn't effected by either the armor or repair skill (which I think is a shame). However, they do get the hp bonus
Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 316	Posted - 2014.08.29 04:40:00 - [20] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Do they benefit from armor repair skills like they get benefit from armor HP skill? If no, why not? What is the advantage of say running two reactives + a repper over a plate + 2 reps? Unless I miss my math mark you get a better fit overall with the basics. Not a ***** thread, looking for insight as to wheether or not any of you monkeys find them worth using on gallente or amarr fits. Their utility for caldari and minmatar is hideously obvious. Are they at all worth considering for fatsuits? I run Gallente Sentinel and I love it. My basic uses a Damage mod for the hights and a repper + reactive for the lows at basic. Advanced I used repper + reactive + plates and proto I do the same (just with another damage mod in our new 2nd High slot). It works pretty well as it takes me less than a minute to go from 0-700 armor if I don't have a logi leashed to me. Of course I am not as tanky as I could be (plate + rep/ 2 plates + rep), but I am more mobile and can sustain myself after my logi dies for a bit. Legionhares Unite!

Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4022	Posted - 2014.08.29 05:45:00 - [21] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: People have been asking since forever why not run a plate and a repper vs running 2 reactives. I always assumed the purpose of the reactive plate was for fits that were low of available slots, but wanted some additional HP and reps at the same time. So to answer your question "Why should I run a reactive instead of a plate and repper" and my answer would be "If you only have one slot left". The advantage of the reactive plate isn't so much the HP or reps, but rather its slot-efficient. Also I need to check the numbers, but I think reactives have a better HP/speed penalty ratio than normal plates? So in that regard, a reactive plate is really a mix between a Plate/Repper/Ferroscale, which again could be considered an advantage. This is the conclusion I think all have come to as well. tips hat But should they only be the most useful combo when considering 1 slot? As previously stated, I wonder if it would be better if the differences were more pronounced between the options. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7396	Posted - 2014.08.29 05:50:00 - [22] - Quote I'd just like to say that the Gallente assault could get a bonus to Reactive Plates. [/leaves thread] Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 142	Posted - 2014.08.29 05:53:00 - [23] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: People have been asking since forever why not run a plate and a repper vs running 2 reactives. I always assumed the purpose of the reactive plate was for fits that were low of available slots, but wanted some additional HP and reps at the same time. So to answer your question "Why should I run a reactive instead of a plate and repper" and my answer would be "If you only have one slot left". The advantage of the reactive plate isn't so much the HP or reps, but rather its slot-efficient. Also I need to check the numbers, but I think reactives have a better HP/speed penalty ratio than normal plates? So in that regard, a reactive plate is really a mix between a Plate/Repper/Ferroscale, which again could be considered an advantage. This is the conclusion I think all have come to as well. tips hat But should they only be the most useful combo when considering 1 slot? As previously stated, I wonder if it would be better if the differences were more pronounced between the options. I think theres bigger fish to fry. Eve has been around for ages and theres always these subtle nuances in whats clearly the better module set. That said, armor reppers need work, scratch that. Some one needs to make a decision on whether or not repping is a valid stand alone tank or simply a think you get to regen inbetween fights once you reach a skill level that your murdering everyone. If yes it should be a valid tanking option then some one needs to go buy a calculator and examine ttk with reps vs ttk with hp stacking. The balance you want is that you have a longer ttk that an hp stacking opponent in a 1 to 1 firing or even 1 to 2 firing skirmish, but armor stacking works out better if you're being hit by multiple sources. If no, then its whatever, make a plate and a repper better than 2 reactives and all you do is make reactives pointless, but hey so plate + repper combo now.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3006	Posted - 2014.08.29 05:54:00 - [24] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: People have been asking since forever why not run a plate and a repper vs running 2 reactives. I always assumed the purpose of the reactive plate was for fits that were low of available slots, but wanted some additional HP and reps at the same time. So to answer your question "Why should I run a reactive instead of a plate and repper" and my answer would be "If you only have one slot left". The advantage of the reactive plate isn't so much the HP or reps, but rather its slot-efficient. Also I need to check the numbers, but I think reactives have a better HP/speed penalty ratio than normal plates? So in that regard, a reactive plate is really a mix between a Plate/Repper/Ferroscale, which again could be considered an advantage. This is the conclusion I think all have come to as well. tips hat But should they only be the most useful combo when considering 1 slot? As previously stated, I wonder if it would be better if the differences were more pronounced between the options. I did a breakdown of combinations in a later post if you missed it, some interesting stuff happens with different combinations of them.


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