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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
873
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Posted - 2014.08.27 13:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
100 additional SP for every kill NOT using a damage modifier with a pretty high cap. If that wont work how about a spin off of the million clone challenge where X number of kills not using damage mods equals X sp for everyone who had atleast 10 kills.
A few weapons now have extreme damage profile variances in an effort to balance them and damage mods are likely messing with the data for them but definitely messes with the feel against them. Why? Because their extreme negative almost universally forces at least one damage mod to be fitted with them. With the damage mod, high proficiency, and the damage profile the high side of these weapons becomes EXTREMELY powerful.
It may sound like I am arguing for the Scrambler rifle which I am to some extent. I have been on the receiving end of combat rifles against my Amarr and on the giving end of my ScR versus Caldari and know that neither actually feels right. These profiles create a weapon the feels OP against what it is meant to counter while damage mods are easily used to give up almost nothing compared to other weapons on the side that it is suppose to do less damage.
The only way this issue is going to end up getting fixed and the damage profiles stay the same is if damage mods go the way of proficiency and that I really do not want to see because it would be totally a game of picking your battles at that point. |
Atiim
11651
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Posted - 2014.08.27 13:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved.
DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Soulja Ghostface
MCDUSTDONALDS Top Men.
2657
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Everybody has sp, What about isk?
Every 5 kills in starter fits gets you 100k
Bring These Back
i Tanker Turned Ads Pilot !
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
873
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Soulja Ghostface wrote:Everybody has sp, What about isk?
Every 5 kills in starter fits gets you 100k
That is a daily event already and it is 10 kills. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
17427
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm not really sure whether to be amused or roll my eyes at the way damage mods are constantly blamed for weapon balance problems.
A shield extender is of generally similar value. If you fit a shield extender and the other guy fits a damage mod and you get into a 1v1, the TTK difference is negligible.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
3916
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Soulja Ghostface wrote:Everybody has sp, What about isk?
Every 5 kills in starter fits gets you 100k
SP >> ISK. SP is the most precious commodity in Dust. (A Thale's might be #2, lol)
There is no cap on ISK, and using cheaper gear won't increase SP gain.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
873
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I'm not really sure whether to be amused or roll my eyes at the way damage mods are constantly blamed for weapon balance problems.
A shield extender is of generally similar value. If you fit a shield extender and the other guy fits a damage mod and you get into a 1v1, the TTK difference is negligible.
Weapons are being created with very high damage versus X and low damage against the opposite. Damage modifiers cancel this low while boosting an already very high high. It is a problem that will persist and either the extreme variance in damage profiles is going to have to go or damage mods are going to need to be changed for actual balance to be achieved.
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
3916
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I'm not really sure whether to be amused or roll my eyes at the way damage mods are constantly blamed for weapon balance problems.
A shield extender is of generally similar value. If you fit a shield extender and the other guy fits a damage mod and you get into a 1v1, the TTK difference is negligible.
*sigh* So true...
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
17433
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Posted - 2014.08.27 15:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I'm not really sure whether to be amused or roll my eyes at the way damage mods are constantly blamed for weapon balance problems.
A shield extender is of generally similar value. If you fit a shield extender and the other guy fits a damage mod and you get into a 1v1, the TTK difference is negligible. Weapons are being created with very high damage versus X and low damage against the opposite. Damage modifiers cancel this low while boosting an already very high high. It is a problem that will persist and either the extreme variance in damage profiles is going to have to go or damage mods are going to need to be changed for actual balance to be achieved.
No, it's not a problem.
Consider this scenario.
You have a Caldari assault. We'll just go with a basic one. Both are equipped with a standard Assault Rifle. One has a complex shield extender. One has a complex damage modifier. For the sake of simplicity, we'll go with just assuming they've both got maxed cores.
HP of extender Calassault (ECA): 275*1.25 + 66*1.1 = 416 shield HP 155*1.25 = 194 armour HP
HP of damage Calassault (DCA): 275*1.25 = 344 shield HP 155*125 = 194 armour HP
Base assault rifle damage per shot = 30.9 Base assault rifle RPM = 800 Fire rate = 800/60 = 13.3 shots per second DPS = 30.9*13.3 = 412
DPS*1.07 = 440 DPS
ECA attack vs DCA defence: 412*1.1 (shield multiplier) = 453 344/453 = 0.76 second time to break shields 412*0.9 (armour multiplier) = 371 194/371 = 0.52 second time to break armour
1.28s TTK
DCA attack vs ECA defence: 440*1.1 (shield multiplier) = 484 416/484 = 0.86 second time to break shields 440*0.9 (armour multiplier) = 396 194/396 = 0.49 second time to break armour
1.35s TTK
TL;DR: In a fight with an extender fitted Calassault vs a damage mod fitted Calassault with assault rifles, the extender fitted Calassault wins by a negligible margin. This scenario even favours the damage mod fitted Calassault because they're using anti-shield weaponry.
Damage mod stacking is not a problem. It is, in fact, weaker than stacking shields. Especially when you consider that once you start stacking damage mods penalties kick in, whereas shield extenders can be stacked as much as you like.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
638
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Posted - 2014.08.27 15:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:100 additional SP for every kill NOT using a damage modifier with a pretty high cap. If that wont work how about a spin off of the million clone challenge where X number of kills not using damage mods equals X sp for everyone who had atleast 10 kills.
A few weapons now have extreme damage profile variances in an effort to balance them and damage mods are likely messing with the data for them but definitely messes with the feel against them. Why? Because their extreme negative almost universally forces at least one damage mod to be fitted with them. With the damage mod, high proficiency, and the damage profile the high side of these weapons becomes EXTREMELY powerful.
It may sound like I am arguing for the Scrambler rifle which I am to some extent. I have been on the receiving end of combat rifles against my Amarr and on the giving end of my ScR versus Caldari and know that neither actually feels right. These profiles create a weapon the feels OP against what it is meant to counter while damage mods are easily used to give up almost nothing compared to other weapons on the side that it is suppose to do less damage.
The only way this issue is going to end up getting fixed and the damage profiles stay the same is if damage mods go the way of proficiency and that I really do not want to see because it would be totally a game of picking your battles at that point. there is a current event going on right now
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 1 Forum Pariah
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
17434
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Posted - 2014.08.27 15:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:deezy dabest wrote:-snip- there is a current event going on right now
This... was not the OP's point.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel
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Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect
1719
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Posted - 2014.08.27 15:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I'm not really sure whether to be amused or roll my eyes at the way damage mods are constantly blamed for weapon balance problems.
A shield extender is of generally similar value. If you fit a shield extender and the other guy fits a damage mod and you get into a 1v1, the TTK difference is negligible. Weapons are being created with very high damage versus X and low damage against the opposite. Damage modifiers cancel this low while boosting an already very high high. It is a problem that will persist and either the extreme variance in damage profiles is going to have to go or damage mods are going to need to be changed for actual balance to be achieved.
Well the way i see it, damage mods are a doubled bladed edge for some players as they fail and fall onto their own sword.
A shield extender is always going to do something, its going to stop more bullets aimed at you, regardless of your skill. A damage mod isn't doing anything much for people that have no aim, people with good aim like to stack them, the others imitate that and now die even faster because they have less shields.
Though i guess sometimes they get lucky and cream someone really fast and think they are worth it.
The biggest damage mod is a headshot anyways.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
17444
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Posted - 2014.08.27 21:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote: Well the way i see it, damage mods are a doubled bladed edge for some players as they fail and fall onto their own sword.
A shield extender is always going to do something, its going to stop more bullets aimed at you, regardless of your skill. A damage mod isn't doing anything much for people that have no aim, people with good aim like to stack them, the others imitate that and now die even faster because they have less shields.
Though i guess sometimes they get lucky and cream someone really fast and think they are worth it.
The biggest damage mod is a headshot anyways.
That's really just the nature of the fitting system.
If you fit one thing, you can't fit another in the same slot.
Sometimes I feel as if I've encountered the limits of human stupidity.
And then, once more, I return to the forums.
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Thang Bausch
Pierrot Le Fou Industries
219
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Posted - 2014.08.27 22:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Atiim wrote:CCP already has access to data which is necessary for balancing items. They don't need to make another fancy event to gather said data either. Not to mention that this event is heavily biased against Support Logis, and outright denies AVers from the event
The point of events is to make it fun for players, so we need to make future events as open and accessible as possible.
I can easily go 1000+ WP exclusively running my minmando AV suit in the right match. A logi with a rep tool and injector does much better in the right kind of match, but AVers can still do well.
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Atiim
11664
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Posted - 2014.08.27 22:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thang Bausch wrote: I can easily go 1000+ WP exclusively running my minmando AV suit in the right match. A logi with a rep tool and injector does much better in the right kind of match, but AVers can still do well.
You won't be killing any competent pilot without a Damage Modifier.
DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Thang Bausch
Pierrot Le Fou Industries
219
|
Posted - 2014.08.27 23:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Thang Bausch wrote: I can easily go 1000+ WP exclusively running my minmando AV suit in the right match. A logi with a rep tool and injector does much better in the right kind of match, but AVers can still do well.
You won't be killing any competent pilot without a Damage Modifier.
All too true :)
But, I can actually get more WP pushing a vehicle repeatedly off the field compared to destroying a vehicle that the owner does not replace on the field. I love that +75 WP for dmg.
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