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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
506
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Posted - 2014.08.25 20:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was playing around with melee today and if its true they fixed knife hit detection I hope they fix melee too... Had a guy hacking right in front of me walked right up to him punched him twice he turned around and shot me once with his militia shotgun doing 800+ e/hp damage... (I was using a Calmmando so the shotgun did bonus damage to my 500 shields)
Funny thing was in the kill screen he had 213 shields and 200 armor (He was an adv minmitar logi with a cloak.) I later had him shotgun me again and he had the exact same suit with the exact same shields. That's when I realized my two punches did not hit him even though his shields flared and body moved.
TL;DR: That's cool OP, can Rattatai fix the melee detection now?
On a side note my favorite thing to do is punch a minja to death when the hit detection actually works. I usually try to break their shields as they are charging in and then try to side step their swing and bonk them on the head. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
506
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 20:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:minmatar scouts are absolutly insane.
this weekend has been an absolute stompfest with games like
52/5
44/6
41/3
43/4
38/4
with the hit detection finally working and that tiny bit of extra range this suit is absolutly devistating to any team that isnt rocking a whole squad of scouts of its own.
im absolutly floored what such a small change could do
(this was with a proto minmatar scout with proficiancy 5 in nova knives... your results may very) What? What kind of redberries are they going against! Any halfway competent team can deny numbers like that. A few questions: Are they ALL nova knife kills, or are they mixing a sidearm and remotes.
What game mode is this happening in.
What maps and area's of the map.
You make it seem like nova knives are OP, but in my estimation they are very mode and map dependent. Open area maps are insanely hard to flank on. And sure they might get a few kills in a city area, but what is it they are killing. Milita suits, or other low HP suits, where one uncharged swipe can take someone out. There just too many unfavorable variables for one that goes out to SOLELY NF (as I have a suit built just for that). I would say that shotgun is way more OP than NF. And OP min scout, are you kidding me?? Do you have any idea how squishy a min scout is. So many times have I just been running around to drop instantly to a CR or RR. Speed be damned. So your estimation that NF are OP is simply wrong and false. Without a doubt they are running things other than a NF, like say shotgun and NF or RR and NF, with RE's sprinkled in. ALL novaknife kills, every single kitten one of them scrim and dom all maps, in citys and open spaces doesnt seem to matter as i dont stand in the middle of an open field no matter what map it is :P theres always rocks and crates for cover. flanking on open maps is actually alot easyer it just takes longer, i like to use blueberrys as bait to make sure their attention is focused in the direction i want them to be focused however. proto suits are incredably easy to take out, 1 charge swipe and done, only brick tanked amaar and gal heavys survive that and i can just finish them up with a mele hit after the knife to clean up the survivors. a tip is to jump on aproach and charge while in the air alowing you to charge up your knives without losing any speed. kin cats are your friend But what about all the min scouts who do just that, only for me to dodge away and keep range. I know there are a lot of stupid blueberries (often times if it wasn't for me just paying attention to that cloaker running around the side, all blueberries would die to one scout that was clear as day to anyone using their eyes), but where do I get berries like the ones you come against. And I run 2 kin cats and 2 myos with a cloak and nothing but a knife on my pure knife suit. All it takes is 2 or 3 bullets from a freaking milita weapon to drop me.
As I don't think it has been mentioned yet and I made the same mistake too once, the myos don't help with nova knives, you have to use sidearm damage enhancements for nova knives. Silly I know, but myos literally only work on punching things, or at least so I've been told and I'm pretty sure is true considering I can tell no damage difference if I do stack myos on a knife. Though I am damn intent to find a use for myos, lol! so far the most likely candidate is commandos my adv calmmando with 2 enhanced myos does like 401 damage a punch just too bad he's a fatty... But I figure with as many players keep running up to me these days with shotguns or whatnot it feels pretty gratifying to slap them dead for getting too close... when melee hit detection works....
I tried doing shayz cloak punching commando thing but I don't have the CPU and PG to really maximize its use plus I noticed that commandos are pretty obvious bumbling about with a cloak on. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
512
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 01:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Got OHKed twice by a Russian min scout knifer soon after the change. He didn't get the drop on me either time, was just camping a doorway and hit me in the face. FIrst time, was expecting a gunfight, second time, was expecting knives, but hadn't realized the range had been buffed.
Moral of the story is, a NKer can now actually lock down an enclosed area unless you brought a burst HMG or core locus with you. Does seem borderline OP, not sure min scout+NKs is really meant as a stationary instaglib dispenser. Perhaps there is some counter I'm missing though.
You could grenade/RE every doorway lol, but as far as reasonable counters I guess you just have to learn to twirl like a ballerina all the time. It's what I do always now because of how many shotgun/knova knife scouts are running around these days. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
512
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 01:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Got OHKed twice by a Russian min scout knifer soon after the change. He didn't get the drop on me either time, was just camping a doorway and hit me in the face. FIrst time, was expecting a gunfight, second time, was expecting knives, but hadn't realized the range had been buffed.
Moral of the story is, a NKer can now actually lock down an enclosed area unless you brought a burst HMG or core locus with you. Does seem borderline OP, not sure min scout+NKs is really meant as a stationary instaglib dispenser. Perhaps there is some counter I'm missing though. You could grenade/RE every doorway lol, but as far as reasonable counters I guess you just have to learn to twirl like a ballerina all the time. It's what I do always now because of how many shotgun/knova knife scouts are running around these days. Even if knova knives got buffed they can't be OP unless we consider shotguns to be OP. What I'm saying is I KNEW EXACTLY WHERE HE WAS! But there was still no way to handle him, short of running off to a supply depot to get explosives... which is just asking for a knife in the back. He could camp like a heavy indefinitely, instaglibbing anyone that came that way. There has always been a similar thing with shotguns, but they do at least miss more than NKs do now and are not going to OHK anything heavier than a scout.
I suppose that's true although My Caldari assaults get Ohkoed by shotguns a lot. Darn that shield damage profile on shottys.
There wasn't another way into the building? |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
514
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 02:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Got OHKed twice by a Russian min scout knifer soon after the change. He didn't get the drop on me either time, was just camping a doorway and hit me in the face. FIrst time, was expecting a gunfight, second time, was expecting knives, but hadn't realized the range had been buffed.
Moral of the story is, a NKer can now actually lock down an enclosed area unless you brought a burst HMG or core locus with you. Does seem borderline OP, not sure min scout+NKs is really meant as a stationary instaglib dispenser. Perhaps there is some counter I'm missing though. You could grenade/RE every doorway lol, but as far as reasonable counters I guess you just have to learn to twirl like a ballerina all the time. It's what I do always now because of how many shotgun/knova knife scouts are running around these days. Even if knova knives got buffed they can't be OP unless we consider shotguns to be OP. What I'm saying is I KNEW EXACTLY WHERE HE WAS! But there was still no way to handle him, short of running off to a supply depot to get explosives... which is just asking for a knife in the back. He could camp like a heavy indefinitely, instaglibbing anyone that came that way. There has always been a similar thing with shotguns, but they do at least miss more than NKs do now and are not going to OHK anything heavier than a scout. I suppose that's true although My Caldari assaults get Ohkoed by shotguns a lot. Darn that shield damage profile on shottys. There wasn't another way into the building? All the entrances were the same, so while I reposition myself he could just camp the doorway I'm moving to.
ah true let me guess was it the little Gallente Socket buildings with two entrances and a roof access? If so, then yeah I'd imagine he could see your red chevron the whole time. In that situation id just bail and go find another target. If you are scared of him coming at you just watch the building while you call in a LAV. He's not going to catch you if your driving away lol. I assume it was just you and him so I would of done this and went off to join the rest of the fight where everyone else was. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
515
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 02:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Got OHKed twice by a Russian min scout knifer soon after the change. He didn't get the drop on me either time, was just camping a doorway and hit me in the face. FIrst time, was expecting a gunfight, second time, was expecting knives, but hadn't realized the range had been buffed.
Moral of the story is, a NKer can now actually lock down an enclosed area unless you brought a burst HMG or core locus with you. Does seem borderline OP, not sure min scout+NKs is really meant as a stationary instaglib dispenser. Perhaps there is some counter I'm missing though. Did you not jump and then backpedal? It is still hard for me to kill people who are constantly moving. If I lose track of someone for a second, I am dead. I would never sit in one place as a knifer, unless I was trying to hide and survive. That is just a good way to get myself killed. Otherwise, shotguns at 5-10 m work as well. Even of the militia variety. You rarely see knifers with lots of tank. He was hiding literally next to the door. So to enter the building I had to get to within 1-2m of him. It would have been possible for me to jump in and he MIGHT have missed but it's a very high risk move with the new knife range. Jumping is a big issue for knifers. You would be surprised how effective it is. I swear that sometimes people jump within my range, and it results in my knife not hitting them. Was there an alternate entrance you could have used?
It was that little gallente building with two entrances and a roof access I think, and in that case the knifing scout would have passively seen his chevron the whole time and can just sprint to each side and wait for him. Aside from something like a mass driver, which I think he said he didn't have equipped. He wasn't going to be able to flush him out.
That said, mass drivers are amazing anti-shotgun/knife weapons I find. My scout hunter assault builds I always pack with a mass driver. You just keep twirling and watch for red pings and blue ghosts. Ironically I find the ion pistol and mass driver work well together for scout hunting (I say ironically since neither weapons are all that popular these days.) Scouts seem to often sprint into the wild fire of the ion pistol lol. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
516
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 20:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:The knives are not the issue. With some proper situational awareness and a passive scanner buddy, they can be spotted. The issue come with the degrading server quality that makes the quick suits untouchable unless you can effectively use a weapon with splash damage. I prefer the assault mass driver for this.
Yeah I've noticed that too lately, half the time I'll be shooting right at a scout and their suits will be visually taking damage but they won't. It reminds me of early Uprising where the hit detection was absolutely horrid. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
516
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 20:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:The knives are not the issue. With some proper situational awareness and a passive scanner buddy, they can be spotted. The issue come with the degrading server quality that makes the quick suits untouchable unless you can effectively use a weapon with splash damage. I prefer the assault mass driver for this. I agree. As long as people stick with a squad, a scout can be countered. Nothing discourages me from attacking more than a group that regularly has eyes behind their heads. This is why the vast majority of my victims happen to be lone stragglers and redline snipers. I really don't see why you need an entire squad to counter a single scout that is easy to see, as the cloaks of this game are fairly tame in comparison to others (like the Crysis series and the HL2 mod 'The Hidden' for example). Even if scouts can see you, that means that they'll be within your proximity most of the time. Being paranoid also helps... Also, another way to understand the ways of the scout is to play scout yourself, and I play everything from infantry to vehicles. Lone targets are the perfect victims, and usually uncontested (is not overpowered when they're simply not paying attention). Most knifers that attempt to kill me are quickly dispatched... to death. One thing I wonder about is that some people find the slashing sound of knives to be fairly quite, while I find them noticeably loud, and some people complain when they don't hear it... Hearing is just as effective, if not more than, tacnet scanning.
The only issue I have found is kincat stacked proto scouts. With a cloak when they sprint you won't see them I've stared intently at one before that was hiding behind a supply depot. I knew exactly where it would be and I never saw it sprint to the left of me and shotgun me. That and you can't see the blue sheen of the cloak in lens flare parts of the game (I really wish they would get rid of that, are you telling me these ******* suits don't have tinting? Sound is another issue, it's really just a pet peeve, but everything should sound like your in a suit... granted halo doesn't do it either but still, it would add to the immersion.
As for the Crysis comparison everyone can cloak so it's pretty balanced. And Ironically with you bringing up the hidden... that's a mod where you have a team versus a cloaked guy with a knife and stun grenades. Our scouts can pull out light weapons and start shooting you before their cloak even wears off. Those games are just bad comparisons. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
516
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 20:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Death Shadow117 wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:The knives are not the issue. With some proper situational awareness and a passive scanner buddy, they can be spotted. The issue come with the degrading server quality that makes the quick suits untouchable unless you can effectively use a weapon with splash damage. I prefer the assault mass driver for this. I agree. As long as people stick with a squad, a scout can be countered. Nothing discourages me from attacking more than a group that regularly has eyes behind their heads. This is why the vast majority of my victims happen to be lone stragglers and redline snipers. I really don't see why you need an entire squad to counter a single scout that is easy to see, as the cloaks of this game are fairly tame in comparison to others (like the Crysis series and the HL2 mod 'The Hidden' for example). Even if scouts can see you, that means that they'll be within your proximity most of the time. Being paranoid also helps... Also, another way to understand the ways of the scout is to play scout yourself, and I play everything from infantry to vehicles. Lone targets are the perfect victims, and usually uncontested (is not overpowered when they're simply not paying attention). Most knifers that attempt to kill me are quickly dispatched... to death. One thing I wonder about is that some people find the slashing sound of knives to be fairly quite, while I find them noticeably loud, and some people complain when they don't hear it... Hearing is just as effective, if not more than, tacnet scanning. The only issue I have found is kincat stacked proto scouts. With a cloak when they sprint you won't see them I've stared intently at one before that was hiding behind a supply depot. I knew exactly where it would be and I never saw it sprint to the left of me and shotgun me. That and you can't see the blue sheen of the cloak in lens flare parts of the game (I really wish they would get rid of that, are you telling me these ******* suits don't have tinting? Sound is another issue, it's really just a pet peeve, but everything should sound like your in a suit... granted halo doesn't do it either but still, it would add to the immersion. As for the Crysis comparison everyone can cloak so it's pretty balanced. And Ironically with you bringing up the hidden... that's a mod where you have a team versus a cloaked guy with a knife and stun grenades. Our scouts can pull out light weapons and start shooting you before their cloak even wears off. Those games are just bad comparisons. Knufe ans stun grenades? You mean hunter in which youre perma cloaked with a bow right. P.S. only like 200 people play crysis anymore.
Not crysis on that bit, I was referring to The Hidden, it's a source mod where one player is cloaked with a knife and stun grenades while everyone else is working as a team with shotguns, rifles, pistols. The goal is for the hidden to kill everyone or everyone else to kill the hidden. The more damage you do to the hidden the more likely you are to become the hidden next round, and if the hidden wins then they stay the hidden.
My point was though that the person I originally quoted had made a bad argument. Especially in the case of the Hidden, since he literally said it shouldn't take a team to kill a scout then talked about how cloaks aren't as hard to see as they are in the hidden a game where its a team vs. one cloaked guy. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
519
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 21:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:The knives are not the issue. With some proper situational awareness and a passive scanner buddy, they can be spotted. The issue come with the degrading server quality that makes the quick suits untouchable unless you can effectively use a weapon with splash damage. I prefer the assault mass driver for this. I agree. As long as people stick with a squad, a scout can be countered. Nothing discourages me from attacking more than a group that regularly has eyes behind their heads. This is why the vast majority of my victims happen to be lone stragglers and redline snipers. I really don't see why you need an entire squad to counter a single scout that is easy to see, as the cloaks of this game are fairly tame in comparison to others (like the Crysis series and the HL2 mod 'The Hidden' for example). Even if scouts can see you, that means that they'll be within your proximity most of the time. Being paranoid also helps... Also, another way to understand the ways of the scout is to play scout yourself, and I play everything from infantry to vehicles. Lone targets are the perfect victims, and usually uncontested (is not overpowered when they're simply not paying attention). Most knifers that attempt to kill me are quickly dispatched... to death. One thing I wonder about is that some people find the slashing sound of knives to be fairly quite, while I find them noticeably loud, and some people complain when they don't hear it... Hearing is just as effective, if not more than, tacnet scanning. The only issue I have found is kincat stacked proto scouts. With a cloak when they sprint you won't see them I've stared intently at one before that was hiding behind a supply depot. I knew exactly where it would be and I never saw it sprint to the left of me and shotgun me. That and you can't see the blue sheen of the cloak in lens flare parts of the game (I really wish they would get rid of that, are you telling me these ******* suits don't have tinting? Sound is another issue, it's really just a pet peeve, but everything should sound like your in a suit... granted halo doesn't do it either but still, it would add to the immersion. As for the Crysis comparison everyone can cloak so it's pretty balanced. And Ironically with you bringing up the hidden... that's a mod where you have a team versus a cloaked guy with a knife and stun grenades. Our scouts can pull out light weapons and start shooting you before their cloak even wears off. Those games are just bad comparisons. Edit: Also, sound issues happen a lot because of bad coding. Ever turn around to a dropship or tank that is right behind you and you couldn't hear them? Ever had someone rapid fire a ScR and you couldn't hear it? Ever get run over by an LAV only to hear the engine finally as it drives away from you? Same happens sometimes for shotguns and knives. When people are complaining about not hearing the sounds, that's is because sometimes the game just decides it doesn't want to produce a sound. I wasn't discussing the gameplay or balance of the games that I mentioned that involved cloaks... just the visual of the cloaks and defining how they are far more difficult to see than Dust's cloaks. Just the visual appearance. Cloaks in Dust are walking christmas trees in comparison, at least for me and a few others. I stack quad complex kincats on my Gallente scout with a cloak, and see other players utilizing a similar fitting running at similar speed just fine... You can't see the cloak in immensely bright areas as they completely overtake the cloaks appearance. I like to refer to it as 'the reverse ninja', where it is not the shadows that hide you well. Sound issues are true, but the majority of the the time they are not too consistent. I also love it when I die to orbitals that appear out of nowhere... "Where the f*ck was the 'whiiiiiiiiiiiir'?"
Yeah I feel the game gets real lazy at times with the sound. I never worry too much about orbitals but I don't have kincats lol, so when I hear the horn blast I'm usually dead unless I get lucky and it was aimed no where near me. Hell half the time I won't even be anywhere near the targeting range and suddenly a beam will strike me and kill me, I never understood how orbitals work. I agree it's pretty easy to see the cloak when it's not broad daylight but even in medium lighting when I'm sitting 3 feet from my 40" HD I cannot see a sprinting kincat scout it just doesn't register. I feel though a lot of the OP nature of the cloak will diminish if CCP put a weapon firing delay when switching from the cloak, like they do when switching to a sidearm after the PLC/Forge gun is fired. In my opinion, and essentially where most of the cloak QQ comes from, the cloak should be used as a tool to move to a flanking position. It shouldn't be a tool that can be used to run right up into the face of your opponent and then start shooting them before the cloak even wears off. To me it's like the old RE bug where you could detonate REs while bleeding out. It's just a glitch that should be fixed.
It's like what Judge said about it. It gives Cloaked scouts the first move, and with weapons that can OHKO or 2HKO it's no wonder shotgun cloaks are spammed so much.
Edit: Oh yeah I don't think that's been mentioned but that's also the only thing I don't like with cloaked scouts. All other weapon combos not so bad, but the first move potential combined with the shotguns alpha spam makes it hard to prevent if you aren't a scout, which I'm not really anything and am everything.
I can fit a shotgun and cloak and be just about as effective and go tit for tat with a lot of the proto shotgun scouts but its just not fun. It's like Tanks514 all over again. |
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