DUST Search - Vehicles in Echo. [If you go that far]

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

Atiim wrote:

Shooter Somewhere wrote:

First suggestion-is bring back standard hauls. Now people claimed this was over powered and it forced them to spec into tanks of there own just to combat them well... that kinda the point xD Really the game should not be reduced to AV vs TANKS

No, that's not the point. In fact, vehicles were nerfed because even CCP is smart enough to know that having to counter one unit with the same exact unit (on a 1:1 ratio) is terrible for balance, and design.

I have a hard time believing that this game is reduced to V/AV, especially considering how few kills the SL got during the Destructive Data Mining event.

Looks like we have some grade A bullshit here

Kills 124

What is a kill? Its when the player dies and has to respawn

Can you not die in a vehicle? Yes

Can you not die in a vehicle even when it blows up? Yes, you just exit the vehicle before it actually blows up

124 kills means 124 ppl stayed in there vehicle until it blew up while everyone else jumped out

Right now it is AV vs Vehicles since there is no point going vehicle vs vehicle when AV can do it better and cheaper

Since facts and balance aren't a concern of yours, let's play a game ...

Let's assume that you're right.
Let's assume that the state of AV is fantastic, Schwarmas included.
Let's implement better, stronger prototype vehicles tomorrow.

What do you think will happen the following day?

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Shooter Somewhere Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 51	Posted - 2014.08.21 09:29:00 - [1] - Quote I seriously recommend if there is a hotfix echo since I think you guys have delta all figured out, It should be purely vehicle based which considering should not be that huge of a task compared to all else. Before I go into detail if you are a genuine tanker you need to speak up here and now we simply cannot allow vehicles in the game to stay the way they are now. 0 diversity 0 tactical advantage 0 benefits to the team PC and PUB alike. Also id like all the AV QQ to go ahead and not comment at all. Your fine with the game right now because your WYK swarms scare of DS in one volley kill them in 3 (your argument is 4 I don't see how that is relevant since minandos get 5% reload bouns not counting the skill you probably speced into) Lets not forget your forge guns back enough damage to kill 70% of my tank fitting in one clip in under 8s all from the safety of a rooftop and or sky scrapper. So... Who has it easy mode? Enough with why tanks have become less frequent in all game modes. Not only because it is expensive but useless and dangerous as well. Lets talk about what we can do to improve them to make them more a part of the game bring pack their strong hold on the battle field. (and if you dare say tanks are for cowards lets fight face to face like men just gtfo JUST GTFO NOW) If you wanna do that crap go play AMB First suggestion-is bring back standard hauls. Now people claimed this was over powered and it forced them to spec into tanks of there own just to combat them well... that kinda the point xD Really the game should not be reduced to AV vs TANKS Second suggestion- different variants of turrets I really have been hating how all of them right now are just rock papers sicors there is no middle ground or specialty unless I become god quickscope COD god with my railgun I will never be able to combat tanks and infantry in my own special way. Third suggestion- More or better passive skills- All there really are are mod skils that improve the recharge and duration of active mods and that is really it. Again I don't feel like this tank is really my tank like it used to be the other guy could easily be using the same crap im using so does it come down to skill or who fires the most shots or the first shot with no misses? Its up to you to decide. The dificaulty of fitting small turrets- Now you may say "if you want to have the advantage of gunner you have to sacrifice performance Well I did the math and putting small rail fitting to 5 (like getting a proto) would not drop the fitting all that much the PG and CPU is already to low but not low enough so you can fit it easily even with that skill on max. So that's about it Please like I said speak up and share some difficulties because after these hotfixes there wont be any more updates aside from a patch here and there we cannot allow tanks to be as trash as they are now. Some people in this game are really ignorant enough to think they should be able to 1v1 any tanker under any circumstances no matter what. That kind of stuff cannot fly in a game like dust. IF you want to do that go play battle field But there if you want to just run around trying to use nothing but AV you lose. I dare you to leave all your tanks and choppers at ground spawn on that game HEADSHOT! HEADSHOT!! HEADSHOT!!! HEADSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=earCbU6vgAo
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3894	Posted - 2014.08.21 12:13:00 - [2] - Quote They spent 1.7 removing all of the above until we are left with what we have now What really makes you think they will turn around and put it back in?
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 324	Posted - 2014.08.21 12:23:00 - [3] - Quote There's only 2 problems... Swarms are broken buggy garbage that any real developer wuld remove or fix not buff until it trolls everything... and ads bonus stacking, which makes vehicle combat a 2 second affair. Tanks give a strategic advantage, missiles are both av and ai, while small turrets can allow anything to be both even if you're on your own... ads are in almost every PC match, there's whining about them from all the ground troops that want to be able to run freely between objectives and not take a safe route or let their av cover them. More variation would be nice, but not the "stuff everything that was removed" approach that old tankers want... Also large blasters on a tank are an easymode ai farm, I really don't know how anyone has trouble with that. I would like to see a slight advantage to going tank vs tank than av vs tank, simply because it's more entertaining, but not to the point that you have to bring a tank to stop a tank... Those times were ****** up.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4370	Posted - 2014.08.21 12:54:00 - [4] - Quote Shooter Somewhere wrote: ... because your WYK swarms scare of DS in one volley kill them in 3 This is not true. I've hit dozens Pythons and Incubi w/three, back-to-back Pro(5) Swarm volleys. Yes, they start to move when they're hit; more often than not, they escape the 3rd volley. No, they do not crash in those rare instances when my 3rd volley happens to connect. * Also of note, they're fully repped and back-in-action in a matter of seconds. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3894	Posted - 2014.08.21 12:57:00 - [5] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: There's only 2 problems... Swarms are broken buggy garbage that any real developer wuld remove or fix not buff until it trolls everything... and ads bonus stacking, which makes vehicle combat a 2 second affair. Tanks give a strategic advantage, missiles are both av and ai, while small turrets can allow anything to be both even if you're on your own... ads are in almost every PC match, there's whining about them from all the ground troops that want to be able to run freely between objectives and not take a safe route or let their av cover them. More variation would be nice, but not the "stuff everything that was removed" approach that old tankers want... Also large blasters on a tank are an easymode ai farm, I really don't know how anyone has trouble with that. I would like to see a slight advantage to going tank vs tank than av vs tank, simply because it's more entertaining, but not to the point that you have to bring a tank to stop a tank... Those times were **** up. ADS bonus stacking requires 2 ppl with max skills into ADS to make it a ** train Large missiles are not AI they barely do splash and you need a direct hit which is only 500hp Large blaster got nerfed hard Variation is what makes it good, i had 5 slot for the tank and 2 extra for support and with the amount of modules we had i had variety and could mix it up with some intresting fits
Shooter Somewhere Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 52	Posted - 2014.08.21 21:25:00 - [6] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: There's only 2 problems... Swarms are broken buggy garbage that any real developer wuld remove or fix not buff until it trolls everything... and ads bonus stacking, which makes vehicle combat a 2 second affair. Tanks give a strategic advantage, missiles are both av and ai, while small turrets can allow anything to be both even if you're on your own... ads are in almost every PC match, there's whining about them from all the ground troops that want to be able to run freely between objectives and not take a safe route or let their av cover them. More variation would be nice, but not the "stuff everything that was removed" approach that old tankers want... Also large blasters on a tank are an easymode ai farm, I really don't know how anyone has trouble with that. I would like to see a slight advantage to going tank vs tank than av vs tank, simply because it's more entertaining, but not to the point that you have to bring a tank to stop a tank... Those times were **** up. ADS bonus stacking requires 2 ppl with max skills into ADS to make it a ** train Large missiles are not AI they barely do splash and you need a direct hit which is only 500hp Large blaster got nerfed hard Variation is what makes it good, i had 5 slot for the tank and 2 extra for support and with the amount of modules we had i had variety and could mix it up with some intresting fits The ads stacking bonus makes little difference really. IF you remove it so that the pilots bouns dosent double back to the gunner im fine with that the crazy recoil maskes it supper hard to hit ground targets but on vehicles its easy. Still in the long run it really does not matter you catch a tank in the middle of nowhere he isn't going to get far. Personally I don't do the whole rail inc thing anymore you really cant AV is to strong and I barely use tanks now because of AV as well. It used to be you get on a point kill the tanks then chew through the infantry so your guys can get the point as it should be no fantasy sifi magical rainbow unicorn guns to 1 shot me. HEADSHOT! HEADSHOT!! HEADSHOT!!! HEADSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=earCbU6vgAo
Soulja Ghostface 2627	Posted - 2014.08.22 04:07:00 - [7] - Quote vehicles offer no strategic advantage? So if a rail maddy catches your gunny with it shields and hardeners down, Theirs no advantage to snaking around corners and driving circles around it? BUt thats besides the point My dream for vehicles is that we get everything from 1.6 back. But we keep our tanks movement speed, armor hardeners fixed, pre 1.7 shield boosters, Then we reintroduce logi dropships, Marauder and enforcer tanks, The old vehicle core skills. AV will be adjusted accordingly. Make it happen Rattati. Bring These Back Tanker Turned Ads Pilot
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 79	Posted - 2014.08.22 06:59:00 - [8] - Quote Hmmm. Dangerous topic this. But I love danger It feels right, we have scouts out there that can boast NK tank kills.. Heck, I even have a suit that can run up and puke forth 6 remotes, toss 2 packed to get you movin, right into the arc of my PLC. (not to mention what I'll do if you bring 4 MLT finklestein-**-tanks to mangmang on me) Prof V forge operators with sentimental names for their dropships. ADS pilots with an 8-pack of red-bull. HAV's on top of places that make me sad. 6 man squads of missile operators with stacked kin-cats. Symbioticforks (see what I did there?) Other snipers that barrage a stream of location intel/pump wyrks/generally annoy HAV/ADS/LAV pilots. Dropships with remotes on them LAV with remotes on them (see first note) Digress Vehicle operators have... as has been pointed out far too often... shoot shoot~AHHH~run away/die. Fun Scanners are mediocre, CRU = stolen vehicle, dmg mod = wasted slot, people not on your mic waste your bullets/stea..... If I am blaster farming your team MAKE ME STOP and have fun doing it FFS Ahhh, the meat of it Fun. 1.6 build, 1 rep 2 large blaster RoF mods 1 passive coolant 1 active coolant because I cant remember name of turret (higher pg/cpu cost/isk price as well, some nice return) 1.8 build ... same crap everyone else is running 38 mil sp, 21 mil into HAV/turrets. Currently having zero fun tanking. I will buy boosters and not even whisper the evil "R" word, skill new trees, to have my old variety back. By all means, balance it. Can I get some skilled AV to side with me? Maybe a reason to have 2 AV fits.. Yellow LAV running about that cant murder like before thanks to patches, yet keeping ADS busy for a good shot, giving proxy users a reason to breathe. Hardened school bus dropping dooders onto your picnic, giving you 4-500 wp in dmg before he has to bug out. Dude has his coolant active, and a good corner, but you have the high ground and a good guardrail. Cue Queen - Flash Gordon theme. http://youtu.be/MS4_Z84-rRE "Tossin uplinks and runnin fer my life" ~ Gunny blownapart "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever
Gabriel Ceja Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 41	Posted - 2014.08.22 08:46:00 - [9] - Quote Well to begin we definitely need tank variants back to have more options, would be awesome to see the return of not just one class of tank variants but all tank variants that have come and gone. Second I think the madrugar needs a slight cpu buff or instead buff the vehicle cpu and pg mods Third more vehicle mods need to be brought in but not the 1.6 ones that everybody wants (sorry guys not gonna lie don't get me wrong those were some good times with those mods but other than the scarce options to choose from I like these mods the way they are now) instead maybe bring in a few new mods for shield and armor for example maybe some vehicle reactive plates and for shields maybe a vehicle shield energizer. "Throw on the flux capacitor." activates fuel injector "WOOOOOO!!!"
Atiim 11566	Posted - 2014.08.22 12:09:00 - [10] - Quote Shooter Somewhere wrote: First suggestion-is bring back standard hauls. Now people claimed this was over powered and it forced them to spec into tanks of there own just to combat them well... that kinda the point xD Really the game should not be reduced to AV vs TANKS No, that's not the point. In fact, vehicles were nerfed because even CCP is smart enough to know that having to counter one unit with the same exact unit (on a 1:1 ratio) is terrible for balance, and design. I have a hard time believing that this game is reduced to V/AV, especially considering how few kills the SL got during the Destructive Data Mining event. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3917	Posted - 2014.08.22 13:05:00 - [11] - Quote Atiim wrote: Shooter Somewhere wrote: First suggestion-is bring back standard hauls. Now people claimed this was over powered and it forced them to spec into tanks of there own just to combat them well... that kinda the point xD Really the game should not be reduced to AV vs TANKS No, that's not the point. In fact, vehicles were nerfed because even CCP is smart enough to know that having to counter one unit with the same exact unit (on a 1:1 ratio) is terrible for balance, and design. I have a hard time believing that this game is reduced to V/AV, especially considering how few kills the SL got during the Destructive Data Mining event. Looks like we have some grade A bullshit here Kills 124 What is a kill? Its when the player dies and has to respawn Can you not die in a vehicle? Yes Can you not die in a vehicle even when it blows up? Yes, you just exit the vehicle before it actually blows up 124 kills means 124 ppl stayed in there vehicle until it blew up while everyone else jumped out Right now it is AV vs Vehicles since there is no point going vehicle vs vehicle when AV can do it better and cheaper
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4400	Posted - 2014.08.22 13:23:00 - [12] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Shooter Somewhere wrote: First suggestion-is bring back standard hauls. Now people claimed this was over powered and it forced them to spec into tanks of there own just to combat them well... that kinda the point xD Really the game should not be reduced to AV vs TANKS No, that's not the point. In fact, vehicles were nerfed because even CCP is smart enough to know that having to counter one unit with the same exact unit (on a 1:1 ratio) is terrible for balance, and design. I have a hard time believing that this game is reduced to V/AV, especially considering how few kills the SL got during the Destructive Data Mining event. Looks like we have some grade A bullshit here Kills 124 What is a kill? Its when the player dies and has to respawn Can you not die in a vehicle? Yes Can you not die in a vehicle even when it blows up? Yes, you just exit the vehicle before it actually blows up 124 kills means 124 ppl stayed in there vehicle until it blew up while everyone else jumped out Right now it is AV vs Vehicles since there is no point going vehicle vs vehicle when AV can do it better and cheaper Since facts and balance aren't a concern of yours, let's play a game ... Let's assume that you're right. Let's assume that the state of AV is fantastic, Schwarmas included. Let's implement better, stronger prototype vehicles tomorrow. What do you think will happen the following day? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3917	Posted - 2014.08.22 13:38:00 - [13] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Shooter Somewhere wrote: First suggestion-is bring back standard hauls. Now people claimed this was over powered and it forced them to spec into tanks of there own just to combat them well... that kinda the point xD Really the game should not be reduced to AV vs TANKS No, that's not the point. In fact, vehicles were nerfed because even CCP is smart enough to know that having to counter one unit with the same exact unit (on a 1:1 ratio) is terrible for balance, and design. I have a hard time believing that this game is reduced to V/AV, especially considering how few kills the SL got during the Destructive Data Mining event. Looks like we have some grade A bullshit here Kills 124 What is a kill? Its when the player dies and has to respawn Can you not die in a vehicle? Yes Can you not die in a vehicle even when it blows up? Yes, you just exit the vehicle before it actually blows up 124 kills means 124 ppl stayed in there vehicle until it blew up while everyone else jumped out Right now it is AV vs Vehicles since there is no point going vehicle vs vehicle when AV can do it better and cheaper Since facts and balance aren't a concern of yours, let's play a game ... Let's assume that you're right. Let's assume that the state of AV is fantastic, Schwarmas included. Let's implement better, stronger prototype vehicles tomorrow. What do you think will happen the following day? CCP rebalance proto AV to deal with proto vehicles Tho unless we get the mods back from 1.0 and more skills with bonuses the proto vehicles will be a bit meh really
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4402	Posted - 2014.08.22 14:01:00 - [14] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CCP rebalance proto AV to deal with proto vehicles Tho unless we get the mods back from 1.0 and more skills with bonuses the proto vehicles will be a bit meh really CCP has yet to rebalance proto AV against basic vehicles; it takes a full clip of max proficiency schwarms to pop a basic LAV. On what basis can you assume they'd rebalance AV against proto vehicles? On what basis can you assume they'd do a good job? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3918	Posted - 2014.08.22 14:27:00 - [15] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CCP rebalance proto AV to deal with proto vehicles Tho unless we get the mods back from 1.0 and more skills with bonuses the proto vehicles will be a bit meh really CCP has yet to rebalance proto AV against basic vehicles; it takes a full clip of max proficiency schwarms to pop a basic LAV. On what basis can you assume they'd rebalance AV against proto vehicles? On what basis can you assume they'd do a good job? Proto vs basic vehicles There is the problem, how can you balance std/adv AV weapons when we only have 1 basic vehicle which we do expect to deal with proto because we cannot upgrade it
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4408	Posted - 2014.08.22 15:09:00 - [16] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CCP rebalance proto AV to deal with proto vehicles Tho unless we get the mods back from 1.0 and more skills with bonuses the proto vehicles will be a bit meh really CCP has yet to rebalance proto AV against basic vehicles; it takes a full clip of max proficiency schwarms to pop a basic LAV. On what basis can you assume they'd rebalance AV against proto vehicles? On what basis can you assume they'd do a good job? Proto vs basic vehicles There is the problem, how can you balance std/adv AV weapons when we only have 1 basic vehicle which we do expect to deal with proto because we cannot upgrade it So throwing bigger and better vehicles into the mix will somehow solve this problem? When has a problem ever been made less complex by adding variables? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3926	Posted - 2014.08.22 15:28:00 - [17] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CCP rebalance proto AV to deal with proto vehicles Tho unless we get the mods back from 1.0 and more skills with bonuses the proto vehicles will be a bit meh really CCP has yet to rebalance proto AV against basic vehicles; it takes a full clip of max proficiency schwarms to pop a basic LAV. On what basis can you assume they'd rebalance AV against proto vehicles? On what basis can you assume they'd do a good job? Proto vs basic vehicles There is the problem, how can you balance std/adv AV weapons when we only have 1 basic vehicle which we do expect to deal with proto because we cannot upgrade it So throwing bigger and better vehicles into the mix will somehow solve this problem? When has a problem ever been made less complex by adding variables? Because then each variation is made useful instead of me going 'ha mlt swarms what a noob'
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 230	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:39:00 - [18] - Quote Shooter Somewhere wrote: I First suggestion-is bring back standard hauls. Second suggestion- different variants of turrets I really have been hating how all of them right now are just rock papers sicors there is no middle ground or specialty unless I become god quickscope COD god with my railgun I will never be able to combat tanks and infantry in my own special way. Third suggestion- More or better passive skills- All there really are are mod skils that improve the recharge and duration of active mods and that is really it. The dificaulty of fitting small turrets- Now you may say "if you want to have the advantage of gunner you have to sacrifice performance Well I did the math ... Shooter_Somwhere, you're points have either spotlighted or echoed some of the subjects that were part of CCP's 2013 concept "Waves of Opportunity" on the maps. In conjunction with rolling back the way the vehicle modules worked (to make them mirror the operation of modules used on EVE Online spaceships, I think the claim was?)... specialized variants of vehicles would be eliminated from the game, to prevent "confusion" , where ingenious players were pimping their vehicles to be unexpectedly powerful, while not actually using them for the roles they were meant to be powerful for. those vehicles that remained would be allowed to use Time-restricted modules only, so that you'd be able to fit a strong vehicle, but one that would lose it's strength in 25 or 35 seconds max, and have to leave the area (no matter how much your team was benefitting by your vehicle's help). Also, "cooldown" periods were added to all these modules, so you had to wait on the sidelines for half a minute or more before you could get back into the fight and effectively help your buddies some more. Weapons for these vehicles that had corporation variant design (arguably the "breach" or "burst" or "tactical" versions for the small turrets world), would also be eliminated from the game, arguably making choice/use of turrets less "confusing" and more to the tune of EVE spaceship weaponry. The goal was to trigger exciting back-n-forth moments in the matches, where one side would rise up almost to the point of slaughtering the opposition, only to have the timer run out on someone's module, giving the weakened team a chance to bounce back and change tactics on their enemy...we're winning, no they're winning, no we're beating them back again... To me, taking away the specialized vehicles was counter to EVE players' ability to create any exhaustingly custom dream vehicle-fittings their scheming minds could dream up. I had problem with LEAVING vehicle modules the way they were before the "Waves" idea was implemented---the earlier modules allowed a little more stacking much the way EVE players could stack. And to this day NOTHING in the small turret marketplace was more fun to rig on my DS and LAV than NuetronBlaster w/ long longer range versus NeutronBlaster w/ wider splash--it made the gameplay more personal and customized for many of us. ...Just not for all of us. Some players still need things to be "trimmed down to the simpler off-the-shelf-n-go" form in these FPS games. IN effect, what you're requesting is that the "Waves of Opportunity" concept be decommisioned and reversed. I sure as hell wouldn't mind that... and I'd love CCP to re-examine the issue under the current state of Dust 514, and decide if the it would really hurt gameplay if the "Waves" changes were removed altogether. Returning those modules and vehicle-turret variants at this point WOULD feel like fun all-new content being injected into the game, and that would also be a great thing for players who never experienced the early 2013 version of the game... Thanks, Shooter! Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Shooter Somewhere Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 52	Posted - 2014.08.22 21:39:00 - [19] - Quote Atiim wrote: Shooter Somewhere wrote: First suggestion-is bring back standard hauls. Now people claimed this was over powered and it forced them to spec into tanks of there own just to combat them well... that kinda the point xD Really the game should not be reduced to AV vs TANKS No, that's not the point. In fact, vehicles were nerfed because even CCP is smart enough to know that having to counter one unit with the same exact unit (on a 1:1 ratio) is terrible for balance, and design. I have a hard time believing that this game is reduced to V/AV, especially considering how few kills the SL got during the Destructive Data Mining event. Well your pure AV to my understanding. Never really done the tank thing. Yes it has been reduced to AV vs vehicles and you say 124 kills with swarms is low? Its not easy to kill someone with a SL because they have to be in the vehicle apon destruction. Even noobs have the common sense to get out their little LAV if they see its about to get blown up by the mystery sifi weapon that 2 volleys them. The only people that will stay in till the end are really just tankers in the majority at least. So count in the kills he got then consider what he didn't kill but blew up anyways and tell me how much isk that is for a 28k gun as to apposed my nearly 300k turret. HEADSHOT! HEADSHOT!! HEADSHOT!!! HEADSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=earCbU6vgAo
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 80	Posted - 2014.08.22 22:56:00 - [20] - Quote If the variation was there, one sided tank matches would turn, somebody would call out a sneaky tank. Logi dropships that can take the punishment of an ADS long enough for swarms to win for a change. On and on.... Bottom line is, the changes have watered down the 'pilot' class to a sad state. Being the only tanker spamming tanks does not make you a good tanker... Being the only ADS in the sky does not mean you own it... 7000 armor redline rails and triple stackers is what it has been boiled into. I have the upper limit. If I want to pew, I'll pew. DUST lets me be a tanker, it's what I want to do. "Tossin uplinks and runnin fer my life" ~ Gunny blownapart "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever



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