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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4303
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Posted - 2014.08.18 12:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
This has been something I've gone on and on about since uprising was released. It was something I pleaded for after Fox Four decided to cut the LP payouts before the FW patch.
The vast majority of Dust doesn't not find themselves in a good position from an ISK standpoint. The lack of effort from many could be something of a strike. Although not official, the mercenaries out there seem to need MOAR to make them fight.
We seem to be continuing forward as though Dust will be a longterm MMO type game, but we know that it will only be a lobby shooter. Let's pull back the reins on the grind a bit and worry about creating action and fun in pubs.
ISK payout increases
More incentives for winning (changing the formula to 70/30)
Increasing salvage and officer drops for winning
Perhaps even lowering the multipliers for Electronics and Engineering to allow new players to bling out their fits sooner.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Morathi III
Pro Hic Immortalis
199
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Posted - 2014.08.18 16:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
60\40 and we have a bargain. 40 represent the current isk payout, if you do the math the winner will increase is payout of 50% appear reasonnable.... forget your salvage
French Canadian Scrubs scout
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4307
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Posted - 2014.08.18 18:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Morathi III wrote:60\40 and we have a bargain. 40 represent the current isk payout, if you do the math the winner will increase is payout of 50% appear reasonnable.... forget your salvage
from what I understand it's at 60/40 now, that's what I'm basing my 70/30 on
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Morathi III
Pro Hic Immortalis
199
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Posted - 2014.08.19 00:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Morathi III wrote:60\40 and we have a bargain. 40 represent the current isk payout, if you do the math the winner will increase is payout of 50% appear reasonnable.... forget your salvage from what I understand it's at 60/40 now, that's what I'm basing my 70/30 on
its allready, oh my bad never noticed
so you want to make the rich even more wealthy and the poor even more poorest
let me explain
factor that will increase your winning %:
-veteran ( skillpoint Wise)
-time you put in the game
-playing in squad
-corporation
-skills
-synergy in the team
so lets see
so Thor odinson playing with a full squad in proto of molon labe with thor playing logi with a heavy 2 assault a tank and a scout uplink against a ramdom guy unsquaded low sp who want to play sniper but hes the fifth on his ramdom team to wanted play that who play only the sunday
even if he play for win he will lose so after getting killed without a fighting chance for the 8 th time in a row maybe he will stay in the redline waiting for the next game because he have no fun and wasting is isks
60 40 its 50% more isk on the winning team, already a nice incentive
70 30 its 133% way too much making richer more wealthy and poor poorest
consequence; poor will leave faster and easier than ever
French Canadian Scrubs scout
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Atiim
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11504
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Posted - 2014.08.19 00:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
You want an incentive?
Make it to where how much ISK you've destroyed as an individual is added to your end-game payout. We could also make it to where how much ISK you save or keep alive (defined as repairing x% of total Armor HP) is also added to an individual's end-game payout,, so that Logistics aren't indirectly punished.
Though I do agree that more ISK as a payout is necessary. Most players who stay in the redline do so because they realize that the payout they'll receive isn't worth the effort. This issue seems to be very common in FW, where the loosing payout is barely enough to cover 2 Dropsuits.
DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Morathi III
Pro Hic Immortalis
199
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Posted - 2014.08.19 00:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Atiim wrote:You want an incentive?
Make it to where how much ISK you've destroyed as an individual is added to your end-game payout. We could also make it to where how much ISK you save or keep alive (defined as repairing x% of total Armor HP) is also added to an individual's end-game payout,, so that Logistics aren't indirectly punished.
Though I do agree that more ISK as a payout is necessary. Most players who stay in the redline do so because they realize that the payout they'll receive isn't worth the effort. This issue seems to be very common in FW, where the loosing payout is barely enough to cover 2 Dropsuits.
more isk pay out... yes good idea
your idea of destroy keep alive things? interesting but more for % of chance of salvage instead of isk pay out for the same reason of my previous post on this treat
French Canadian Scrubs scout
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4312
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 00:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Atiim wrote:You want an incentive?
Make it to where how much ISK you've destroyed as an individual is added to your end-game payout. We could also make it to where how much ISK you save or keep alive (defined as repairing x% of total Armor HP) is also added to an individual's end-game payout,, so that Logistics aren't indirectly punished.
Though I do agree that more ISK as a payout is necessary. Most players who stay in the redline do so because they realize that the payout they'll receive isn't worth the effort. This issue seems to be very common in FW, where the loosing payout is barely enough to cover 2 Dropsuits.
I love it.
It's perfect, but it's very unlikely to be done. It sounds difficult to do.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Vethosis
Krullefor Organization
Minmatar Republic
990
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Posted - 2014.08.19 23:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:This has been something I've gone on and on about since uprising was released. It was something I pleaded for after Fox Four decided to cut the LP payouts before the FW patch.
The vast majority of Dust doesn't not find themselves in a good position from an ISK standpoint. The lack of effort from many could be something of a strike. Although not official, the mercenaries out there seem to need MOAR to make them fight.
We seem to be continuing forward as though Dust will be a longterm MMO type game, but we know that it will only be a lobby shooter. Let's pull back the reins on the grind a bit and worry about creating action and fun in pubs.
ISK payout increases
More incentives for winning (changing the formula to 70/30)
Increasing salvage and officer drops for winning
Perhaps even lowering the multipliers for Electronics and Engineering to allow new players to bling out their fits sooner.
one of the CPM members is 13, would fit your play style. |
General John Ripper
24207
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Posted - 2014.09.06 19:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Morathi III wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Morathi III wrote:60\40 and we have a bargain. 40 represent the current isk payout, if you do the math the winner will increase is payout of 50% appear reasonnable.... forget your salvage from what I understand it's at 60/40 now, that's what I'm basing my 70/30 on its allready, oh my bad never noticed so you want to make the rich even more wealthy and the poor even more poorest let me explain factor that will increase your winning %: -veteran ( skillpoint Wise) -time you put in the game -playing in squad -corporation -skills -synergy in the team so lets see so Thor odinson playing with a full squad in proto of molon labe with thor playing logi with a heavy 2 assault a tank and a scout uplink against a ramdom guy unsquaded low sp who want to play sniper but hes the fifth on his ramdom team to wanted play that who play only the sunday even if he play for win he will lose so after getting killed without a fighting chance for the 8 th time in a row maybe he will stay in the redline waiting for the next game because he have no fun and wasting is isks60 40 its 50% more isk on the winning team, already a nice incentive 70 30 its 133% way too much making richer more wealthy and poor poorest consequence; poor will leave faster and easier than ever
That was rude. Could have put it in better terms...
Anyways I disagree with you lonely carebears. I don't believe in a Dust future if it is a carebear future. If Dust was a great game, I am sure you would like the winners to earn more too. It is only logical... but Dust is not a great game and it is imbalanced. Isk payouts shouldn't be hard coded to reflect other badly designed parts of the game.. You just waste time and resources when you have to redesign and redo parts of the game because it was dependent on broken mechanics.
However I noticed you listed everything BUT broken mechanics or a broken game. People should be allowed to play with their friends, their corporation, they should be allowed to play as long as they want. Your argument and reasons for doing so are horrible.
"the poor will leave faster and easier than ever".... well if you really believe that then by your logic the poor will leave anyways which leads me to my point.
1. Offer something constructive
2.don't be a cry baby,
3. push for what you think is actually broken to get fixed.
4. No one cares for hypothetical scenarios that offers nothing of value.
I happen to agree with increasing peoples incentive to win. In any other working game, this would be the logical model. You must give people an incentive to win. Competitive players like playing a competitive game. Not a carebear game. This is why alot of vets are also leaving. It just stopped being fun. Raising isk values for the winning side is a good thing because now it will give the general feeling like winning actually matters.
* goes off to eat hypothetical taco. *
Avatar - PirateKing - Hokage - The guy who captured them all - Your daddy
I am the Alpha and the Omega.
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Immortal John Ripper
24207
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Posted - 2014.09.06 19:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Morathi III wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Morathi III wrote:60\40 and we have a bargain. 40 represent the current isk payout, if you do the math the winner will increase is payout of 50% appear reasonnable.... forget your salvage from what I understand it's at 60/40 now, that's what I'm basing my 70/30 on its allready, oh my bad never noticed so you want to make the rich even more wealthy and the poor even more poorest let me explain factor that will increase your winning %: -veteran ( skillpoint Wise) -time you put in the game -playing in squad -corporation -skills -synergy in the team so lets see so Thor odinson playing with a full squad in proto of molon labe with thor playing logi with a heavy 2 assault a tank and a scout uplink against a ramdom guy unsquaded low sp who want to play sniper but hes the fifth on his ramdom team to wanted play that who play only the sunday even if he play for win he will lose so after getting killed without a fighting chance for the 8 th time in a row maybe he will stay in the redline waiting for the next game because he have no fun and wasting is isks60 40 its 50% more isk on the winning team, already a nice incentive 70 30 its 133% way too much making richer more wealthy and poor poorest consequence; poor will leave faster and easier than ever
That was rude. Could have put it in better terms...
Anyways I disagree with you lonely carebears. I don't believe in a Dust future if it is a carebear future. If Dust was a great game, I am sure you would like the winners to earn more too. It is only logical... but Dust is not a great game and it is imbalanced. Isk payouts shouldn't be hard coded to reflect other badly designed parts of the game.. You just waste time and resources when you have to redesign and redo parts of the game because it was dependent on broken mechanics.
However I noticed you listed everything BUT broken mechanics or a broken game. People should be allowed to play with their friends, their corporation, they should be allowed to play as long as they want. Your argument and reasons for doing so are horrible.
"the poor will leave faster and easier than ever".... well if you really believe that then by your logic the poor will leave anyways which leads me to my point.
1. Offer something constructive
2.don't be a cry baby,
3. push for what you think is actually broken to get fixed.
4. No one cares for hypothetical scenarios that offers nothing of value.
I happen to agree with increasing peoples incentive to win. In any other working game, this would be the logical model. You must give people an incentive to win. Competitive players like playing a competitive game. Not a carebear game. This is why alot of vets are also leaving. It just stopped being fun. Raising isk values for the winning side is a good thing because now it will give the general feeling like winning actually matters.
* goes off to eat hypothetical taco. *
Avatar - PirateKing - Hokage - The guy who captured them all - Your daddy
I am the Alpha and the Omega.
|
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Immortal John Ripper
24207
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 19:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Atiim wrote:You want an incentive?
Make it to where how much ISK you've destroyed as an individual is added to your end-game payout. We could also make it to where how much ISK you save or keep alive (defined as repairing x% of total Armor HP) is also added to an individual's end-game payout,, so that Logistics aren't indirectly punished.
Though I do agree that more ISK as a payout is necessary. Most players who stay in the redline do so because they realize that the payout they'll receive isn't worth the effort. This issue seems to be very common in FW, where the loosing payout is barely enough to cover 2 Dropsuits. I love it. It's perfect, but it's very unlikely to be done. It sounds difficult to do.
doesn't sound too difficult to me. Doesn't ccp already track how much damage is done per individual player? Don't they also track how much health received or health healed?
The only problem I see is that there should be a ceiling limit for boosters. That way someone isn't getting damaged and repped for an hour to make 20 mill a match lol. The ceiling limit for reps should only apply on a per individual healed basis. They should be able to earn more by going out and healing more people, other people.
Avatar - PirateKing - Hokage - The guy who captured them all - Your daddy
I am the Alpha and the Omega.
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General John Ripper
24794
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 19:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Atiim wrote:You want an incentive?
Make it to where how much ISK you've destroyed as an individual is added to your end-game payout. We could also make it to where how much ISK you save or keep alive (defined as repairing x% of total Armor HP) is also added to an individual's end-game payout,, so that Logistics aren't indirectly punished.
Though I do agree that more ISK as a payout is necessary. Most players who stay in the redline do so because they realize that the payout they'll receive isn't worth the effort. This issue seems to be very common in FW, where the loosing payout is barely enough to cover 2 Dropsuits. I love it. It's perfect, but it's very unlikely to be done. It sounds difficult to do.
doesn't sound too difficult to me. Doesn't ccp already track how much damage is done per individual player? Don't they also track how much health received or health healed?
The only problem I see is that there should be a ceiling limit for boosters. That way someone isn't getting damaged and repped for an hour to make 20 mill a match lol. The ceiling limit for reps should only apply on a per individual healed basis. They should be able to earn more by going out and healing more people, other people.
I would like your post if I could but CCP nerfed my like button and took it away. :(
Skype: John_Ripper5150
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4616
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 20:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Surprised we aren't hearing anything in this area. I would have had Dev blogs and crazy events in the lead up to the Destiny release as well as something the week after.
It seems like they leave so much on the table at CCP. I think Dust must have had sex with some executive's wife or something.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3309
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Posted - 2014.09.08 21:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Or, nobody really cares about Destiny, Thor. Or any of the eight preceding games that everyone thought would kill DUST. And DUST's player numbers are still growing.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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medomai grey
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
972
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 23:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Or, nobody really cares about Destiny, Thor. Or any of the eight preceding games that everyone thought would kill DUST. And DUST's player numbers are still growing. Which is why over half my corp disappeared after Destiny launched... 
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4619
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Posted - 2014.09.09 01:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Or, nobody really cares about Destiny, Thor. Or any of the eight preceding games that everyone thought would kill DUST. And DUST's player numbers are still growing.
Dude, I'm as fanboy as they come and that's just not a realistic outlook. It's gonna hurt.
They should be doing the things I mentioned more often anyway, but it's a good idea to mimic other capitalist entities when calling yourself a company. Dust is 1000x better than CCP has allowed people to believe it to be.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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David Spd
Caldari State
163
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Posted - 2014.09.12 19:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
**Sorry if double-posted, forums derped**
Sorry I gotta be "that guy"... but...
Being Malon Labe., doesn't that mean you spend 90% of your time in a vehicle? Pretty rare for me to see any of your Corp. outside of one.
And I am very serious when I say that. In my experience your corp. is pretty infamous for having max tanks active at all times in public matchmaking...
I have full proto and I run Advanced suits with a mix of Complex & advanced modules. I always have enough isk to fund my fittings from playing Public matches exclusively. I have zero issues with ISK payouts.
On my Gallente alt I have issues with ISK, mainly because I don't play enough and I have too much passive Sp accumulated (so skillbooks + gear = no isk) but even with my 15m SP Amarr I have little issues with advanced fits.
I have a hard time seeing where ISK would be a problem unless you're losing a complex/adv proto dropsuit fit or tank every match... if ISK starts becoming low then do what I do and run militia/BPO fits for a day or so. At least then people would have a chance to fight back.
And yes, I'm bitter about your Corp. pubstomping in tanks. Could we please not disregard my entire post because of that? Thanks.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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Immortal John Ripper
24501
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Posted - 2014.09.12 22:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
David try to look at this objectively... and not let butthurt get in the way.
We want incentives so people try harder ingames. So blueberries don't feel like giving up. So people would keep trying their best. If you have any ideas regarding incentives to improve the overall game experience then please share it with us.
You probably have no problems with isk payouts because it doesn't matter if you lose every single game. You get roughly the same amount of isk win or lose. Where is the risk? Where is the sense of accomplishment? Why have suits cost anything if it doesn't matter?
I am not only being one sided here though. I would also love for people to get isk bonus for ending kill streaks. Even for the losing side to be rewarded for shutting down a proto stomping player.
Doubling Billions of isk!
I will double ALL isk from now until the15th!!
No amounts under 5m. Don't waste my time.
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General John Ripper
24794
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Posted - 2014.09.12 22:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
David try to look at this objectively... and not let butthurt get in the way.
We want incentives so people try harder ingames. So blueberries don't feel like giving up. So people would keep trying their best. If you have any ideas regarding incentives to improve the overall game experience then please share it with us.
You probably have no problems with isk payouts because it doesn't matter if you lose every single game. You get roughly the same amount of isk win or lose. Where is the risk? Where is the sense of accomplishment? Why have suits cost anything if it doesn't matter?
I am not only being one sided here though. I would also love for people to get isk bonus for ending kill streaks. Even for the losing side to be rewarded for shutting down a proto stomping player.
I would like your post if I could but CCP nerfed my like button and took it away. :(
Skype: John_Ripper5150
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2874
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 11:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
Earnings and the ability to sustain a role provided the player in question is executing it well are certainly under discussion.
I do not have any definitive conclusions to pass along at this point (honestly such statements are more CCPs dept to make) but I can confirm that the matter has been discussed more than once and is not currently tabled.
I know more details are generally desirable whenever possible so I wanted to pass this along even though it is still in such a preliminary phase at present.
Cheers,
Cross
See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4651
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Posted - 2014.09.21 13:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Earnings and the ability to sustain a role provided the player in question is executing it well are certainly under discussion.
I do not have any definitive conclusions to pass along at this point (honestly such statements are more CCPs dept to make) but I can confirm that the matter has been discussed more than once and is not currently tabled.
I know more details are generally desirable whenever possible so I wanted to pass this along even though it is still in such a preliminary phase at present.
Cheers,
Cross
Good to know, it would be nice to see people trying to win more often.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
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hfderrtgvcd
466
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Posted - 2014.09.21 14:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
This won't make people try harder, it will actually do the complete opposite. When I am getting crushed in a match against a squad of full proto, I bust out my proto and try extra hard, because I know the payout will make up for my losses. If you make this change I am much more likely to leave the game or sit in the redline because I know a loss is inevitable.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4651
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Posted - 2014.09.22 02:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:This won't make people try harder, it will actually do the complete opposite. When I am getting crushed in a match against a squad of full proto, I bust out my proto and try extra hard, because I know the payout will make up for my losses. If you make this change I am much more likely to leave the game or sit in the redline because I know a loss is inevitable.
Getting paid for good results has definitely not shown to be a good motivator throughout history. I just figured it would here.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
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