DUST Search - Orbital Bombardment WP cost

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Apothecary Za'ki wrote:

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Mikey Ducati wrote:

Himiko, sometimes you need to come down off your self made pedestal.

I'll stop being the only one saying anything intelligent when the community decides to say something intelligent.

which i "believe" i am by saying 5k points is just too much most of the time except for Proto and vets in full squad of 6..
4k points dosnt seem all too bad.. gives the losers maybe one perhaps two orbitals to try push against the winners.. while the experanced vets/protos will maybe get 1 or 2 more aswell thats just how the cookie crumbles

Or you could just let the losers do what they do best and lose.

A sense of urgency is a healthy thing for a game. Especially when its full of bad players like Dust is who can't tell their heads from their asses. Urgency points them in the right direction because they are too dumb to figure it out themselves. Good game design helps stupid people act like smart people even though they will always be stupid.

Constant orbital's isn't good game design. They should be a rare, rare thing. The fact that we're even talking about a squad getting multiple orbitals as the norm is a terrible thing. It's not a "game changer" if the game keeps changing every two minutes.


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Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 534	Posted - 2014.08.17 06:10:00 - [1] - Quote we've tried it at 5k WP and its just not working out.. how about we try it at 4k and see if its any better.. for a squad of 6 @4k that would be liek 633 WP each.. thats 200wp less each not much but itll make a bigger difference i think [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 534	Posted - 2014.08.17 06:18:00 - [2] - Quote i disagree, battles seem alot more dull and boring with maybe 1-2 orbitals a match that extra 200WP save going from 5k to 4k could be like 1/2 the way to a 3rd orbital so its not that much of a buff/nerf when compaired to the old 2500 WP OBs which rained hell on earth [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 537	Posted - 2014.08.17 06:49:00 - [3] - Quote hold that wrote: Orbitals are scrub status like cloaked scouts, they are free kills that you can't get revived from, ez mode and easily abused (heavy take damage in doorway pls with 3 logi on you). 5k is legit now. And more peeps are rolling out the better suits. orbitals can fail hard too.. iv seen/experienced orbitals that kill no one at all [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 538	Posted - 2014.08.17 06:53:00 - [4] - Quote Death Shadow117 wrote: Its easy with logis and point whoring off of heavies. not really as there is the HARD cap for Points per minute on rep tool.. which i feel needs to be raised now Orbitals are 5k :/ and still need to be raised if they are lowered to 4k and let us not forget the impending WP nerf for mil, std and adv injectors.. only proto gets 15 more points the current [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 538	Posted - 2014.08.17 06:56:00 - [5] - Quote Perhaps give us back the ability to drop Small installations/supply depos for War-Points that was its a strategic desition weather or not to get a few kills now.. or get a supply depo to keep your guys supplied in the battlefield as well as lowering orbital cost to 4k [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 540	Posted - 2014.08.17 07:15:00 - [6] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Orbital spam was a bad thing, now you actually have to work as a team to get in there rather than run around getting war points so you can blow everything to hell 3 times in a row and walk into the objective... Seriously you all bitched about vehicles being able to blow you all to hell without being "easily" stopped, but an orbital is much easier and can only be avoided if you're in the right place at the right time. well the differance for a full team is only 200 points per person from 833 down to 633 each for an orbital yes it would mean more orbitals but still like 80% less then when it was 2500wp [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 540	Posted - 2014.08.17 07:21:00 - [7] - Quote 5k WP was just overkill.. there is like NO orbitals at all now really except maybe 2 tops in domination.. goign form 5000 to 4000 isnt as bad as people are makeing it out to be.. OLD 2500WP / 6 = 416WP each they came Too thick and fast NEW 5000WP / 6 = 833WP each they come maybe once or twice.. at most 3 times total only in an entire match (domination) dont think i have seen them in Amboosh and maybe only 1 in Skirmish. Proposed 4000 / 6 = 666WP each. number of the beast! i think this will be a nice balance between old and new id guess maybe 4 to 5 orbitals in a long Domination. maybe the odd 1 perhaps 2 in amboosh.. and perhaps 2 to 3 in skirmish edit. adding this to OP [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 540	Posted - 2014.08.17 07:23:00 - [8] - Quote 1913 DfLo wrote: I would say 3000 at most or back to 2500. 5000 is out of reach for alot of squads that are not running heavy or have a dropship and/or tanks. 3000 is still easly soloable for logi in domination.. at 4k its out of reach but still do-able with maybe 3+ people.. where as 5k seems to leave it exclusively for FULL squads only [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 540	Posted - 2014.08.17 07:33:00 - [9] - Quote bamboo x wrote: I don't like it. Basically I don't trust my 5 man squad to pull their weight. All I know is I'm already missing getting MORE THAN ONE OB in a pub... join some chat channels get to know some experienced peeps who can at least pull their weight and squad up.. and make sure squad commander knows when y'all got enough WP to drop the BOMB as iv hot-dropped into pubbie squads to put my points to use and some instances we've had enough points to drop like 2 or 3 orbitals but havnt dropped a single one. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 541	Posted - 2014.08.17 07:38:00 - [10] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I'm inclined tp agree with the OP, and the 4000 number. Orbitals do help teams push back and thin numbers for a counter attack. it SEEMS, and this is only an initial impression, that I'm seeing more one sided matches. Orbitals while used by the winners to pound the losers are also very useful for trying to get back in the game. I'd support 4000, if the community support it. WOO CPM support /prostrate ps. i agree.. orbitals were useful for the losers to stay in the game, as of Charlie and WP cost increase i have seen perhaps an increase in Redlining if there is a competent squad on 1 team and not on the other.. i recall loseing team orbitals being used to Route an enemy bulwark so the losers could push in Cap and fight Tooth n nail to claw back MCC HP and even sometimes win. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 541	Posted - 2014.08.17 07:43:00 - [11] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: 1913 DfLo wrote: I would say 3000 at most or back to 2500. 5000 is out of reach for alot of squads that are not running heavy or have a dropship and/or tanks. So its out of reach of bad squads? Sounds like ITS FINE AS IS. i disagree there has been such a scarcity of orbitals since charlie unless you have a full squad of Vets.. the proposed points change could bring them back but not as frequent as 2500 points but still in the range for non vet squads too [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 541	Posted - 2014.08.17 07:47:00 - [12] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: 1913 DfLo wrote: I would say 3000 at most or back to 2500. 5000 is out of reach for alot of squads that are not running heavy or have a dropship and/or tanks. 3000 is still easly soloable for logi in domination.. at 4k its out of reach but still do-able with maybe 3+ people.. where as 5k seems to leave it exclusively for FULL squads only 2.5k each is easy enough for a lot of 2 man squads... If you're not good enough to get a few war-points without repping a fat guy the whole match, then that's your problem... Half a squad can still get 1 orbital, now if your team has 4 squads that's a chance of 4 orbitals, which is borderline too many. The orbital is an "oh **" button... You up you get a do-over and clear an area... If the whole match is full of spam again, it gets boring again and we'll have even more than the current amount of afk matches. my WP gain is not in question but due to the lack of logi lately and the massive WP cost Hike orbitals they are just soo rare.. i do think they were too frequant at 2500 points but then the losers could atleast make an adiquate push against the winners.. while now only the Pros and vet squads seem to only use orbitals to basically stamp on our metaphorical faces after they have given us a good beating and kicking already. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah**
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 542	Posted - 2014.08.17 07:55:00 - [13] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: In Bravo they were just too frequent. People were losing very ISK costly suits early in a match at a point where teams were engaged in a fun and engaging gun fight. At that stage of a match we are playing the FPS part of the game. matching our gun game against each other, using our good gear and for the vast majority proto is limited to one or two suits a game. Orbitals that easy to obtain stopped the first clash, which is often the most exciting one. that i agree with but now.. at 5k wp it just seems gungame is all there is now aside the odd everyone and their mother switching to av to kill the rare tank or ADS. as for Logi we cannot even afford to lose 1 proto suit as it costs more then we can get isk wise at the end (Hint hint delta cough ) but then again its all the more reason to farm isk and LP shrug [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 545	Posted - 2014.08.17 08:00:00 - [14] - Quote i also feel that lowering WP cost by 1000 to 4000 will make orbitals be a little more often then they are now and seeing a few orbitals per match can help players recognize the signs.. for when they go to FW and there is most likely going to be an orbital dropped EVERY 3 minutes [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 545	Posted - 2014.08.17 08:05:00 - [15] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: In Bravo they were just too frequent. People were losing very ISK costly suits early in a match at a point where teams were engaged in a fun and engaging gun fight. At that stage of a match we are playing the FPS part of the game. matching our gun game against each other, using our good gear and for the vast majority proto is limited to one or two suits a game. Orbitals that easy to obtain stopped the first clash, which is often the most exciting one. i as a logi also love when "meat-grinders" happen when both sides are locked in slaughter and im trying my hardest to perform the 5 R's of the Logistic Edict. gives me reason to play logi more then just spawn.. drop uplinks.. follow a fatman with rep tool for like 5 mins for maybe 2 or 3 kill assists all the while Lamenting the cap on WP per minute on reptools.. i slightly agree with the cap but with orbitals costing 5k maybe the cap could be increased somewhat.. or if it gets lowered to 4k maybe just a slight increase to the cap. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 545	Posted - 2014.08.17 08:07:00 - [16] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Mikey Ducati wrote: Himiko, sometimes you need to come down off your self made pedestal. I'll stop being the only one saying anything intelligent when the community decides to say something intelligent. which i "believe" i am by saying 5k points is just too much most of the time except for Proto and vets in full squad of 6.. 4k points dosnt seem all too bad.. gives the losers maybe one perhaps two orbitals to try push against the winners.. while the experanced vets/protos will maybe get 1 or 2 more aswell thats just how the cookie crumbles [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 545	Posted - 2014.08.17 08:11:00 - [17] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I'll stop being the only one saying anything intelligent when the community decides to say something intelligent. I've read all your posts here, and the other posters too. Your position is clear. tbh sounds like himiko is slightly bitter-vet-elitist when it comes to orbitals <,<; but does have a valid point.. and that is why the cost was raised to 5k.. which i think was too much of a raise.. even before charlie came out i replied to the patchnot thread and stated 3500-4000WP NOT 5k we have had charlie near a week now? and my experiance has gone from.. exciting battles with perhaps too meny orbitals to mediocre battles with sometimes no orbitals at all [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 545	Posted - 2014.08.17 08:18:00 - [18] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: I always thought there should be a cost to orbitals. 9 times out of 10 an OB helps the winning team get further ahead and reduces the chance of the losing team changing the tide. What if an OB cost the squad 1000 wp? The winning team could choose to not deploy and keep the wp or drop to help cement victory - the loosing team would be more likely to make the wp sacrifice to get back in the game. The 1000 wp cost is based on a 5000 wp OB - it could be less if an OB was reduced to 4000 - it's the risk / reward concept for OBs that I'm proposing - it won't change PC matches but may help to balance pubs a little better. i dont think the code will allow increaseing increments for OB deployment although i do like that idea BUT it would kill the gungame at the start of the round more so then 2500WP cost did.. whereas the 5k WP cost means the losers hardly have a chance to push back as beign on the loseing side there is usually a massive points difference between the top 6 winners and top6 losers and usually the losers wont accumulate enough in time.. and that is if the top 6 are all in the same squad.. most of the time there is a rank spread/point spread differance within a squad play situation of its members [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 545	Posted - 2014.08.17 08:19:00 - [19] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: 1913 DfLo wrote: I would say 3000 at most or back to 2500. 5000 is out of reach for alot of squads that are not running heavy or have a dropship and/or tanks. So its out of reach of bad squads? Sounds like ITS FINE AS IS. i disagree there has been such a scarcity of orbitals since charlie unless you have a full squad of Vets.. the proposed points change could bring them back but not as frequent as 2500 points but still in the range for non vet squads too the OBs are still pretty easy to get now. it was changed so EVE support was more important in PC. i feel something as power as a OB should be something you have to work hard to obtain. im talking normal matchmakeing.. not FW(every 3 minutes a player can drop one) or PC (no idea of the OB mechanics in there) [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 545	Posted - 2014.08.17 08:20:00 - [20] - Quote Will Driver wrote: OBs should be rare. Keep as is. i would disagree.. not as frequant as bravo.. but not as rare as charlie.. thus my proposed WP cost change to 4000 [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 545	Posted - 2014.08.17 08:21:00 - [21] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Mikey Ducati wrote: Himiko, sometimes you need to come down off your self made pedestal. I'll stop being the only one saying anything intelligent when the community decides to say something intelligent. which i "believe" i am by saying 5k points is just too much most of the time except for Proto and vets in full squad of 6.. 4k points dosnt seem all too bad.. gives the losers maybe one perhaps two orbitals to try push against the winners.. while the experanced vets/protos will maybe get 1 or 2 more aswell thats just how the cookie crumbles Or you could just let the losers do what they do best and lose. A sense of urgency is a healthy thing for a game. Especially when its full of bad players like Dust is who can't tell their heads from their asses. Urgency points them in the right direction because they are too dumb to figure it out themselves. Good game design helps stupid people act like smart people even though they will always be stupid. Constant orbital's isn't good game design. They should be a rare, rare thing. The fact that we're even talking about a squad getting multiple orbitals as the norm is a terrible thing. It's not a "game changer" if the game keeps changing every two minutes. a sence of urgency dosnt help at all when any sort of push will be squashed by Orbitals then followed by camping the uplinks cause the winners have a bloodlust going on. a slight lower post cost is so even the losers can have acess to maybe 1 orbital in a round.. which risk vs reward could/should be used wisely [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 545	Posted - 2014.08.17 08:40:00 - [22] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Having more orbitals doesn't make the game any more tactical. It just creates a "reset" button because things didn't go your way. You're giving the winners more orbitals too, you know. How do you think that's going to play out? Especially at the red line? or it helps the losers atleast push back against the winners so atleast a bit of a good fight is had by both.. and even at 4k WP itll be a hard thing to do.. more so then the dark times of PRE-Charlie at 2500 [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 545	Posted - 2014.08.17 09:00:00 - [23] - Quote The Eristic wrote: 5k is ok for 6-man squads. Not so ok for less than that. Prorate the WP requirement based on squad size. Also, make pub OBs EMP! hmm 5k is ok for vet 6-man squads who can pull the points but not average players.. EMP orbitals wouldnt work.. and would require client side update i think. as for WP scaleing with squad size.. that is just goign backwards as im guessing yoru diea is like 1k per person in a squad of 6 right? while its -1k for each empty spot in a squad.. so you would have a full team of people running around in 1 man squads [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 552	Posted - 2014.08.17 18:47:00 - [24] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: 5000 is fine, well oiled squads can still get them. which only limits then to well oiled squads.. who dont need them in the first place if only to curb stomp the losers even more then they already are getting [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 552	Posted - 2014.08.17 18:48:00 - [25] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Orbital spam was a bad thing, now you actually have to work as a team to get in there rather than run around getting war points so you can blow everything to hell 3 times in a row and walk into the objective... Seriously you all bitched about vehicles being able to blow you all to hell without being "easily" stopped, but an orbital is much easier and can only be avoided if you're in the right place at the right time. well the differance for a full team is only 200 points per person from 833 down to 633 each for an orbital yes it would mean more orbitals but still like 80% less then when it was 2500wp 200 points per person, per orbital... that's 2 barrages for a mear 1300wp each... 3 for 1900... Most games these "full squads" will be over 2k each (I know because I'm usually in them.) So lets say we have 2 full squads and a few blue's... That's 6 OB's and well you're not coming back into that match with your 1 OB you managed to farm stuck in the redzone. You're not supposed to be able to spam the barrage, or get them on your own. only in domination will your full squad manage to get 1300+ each [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 555	Posted - 2014.08.17 21:25:00 - [26] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: 5000 is fine, well oiled squads can still get them. which only limits then to well oiled squads.. who dont need them in the first place if only to curb stomp the losers even more then they already are getting If they enhanced the academy there would be no need To help them but if you've been here for 1-2 years then that's your fault CCP shouldn't have to babysit you. This game rewards skill and team work if you have neither than get them. been in eve since like 2008. been in dust since 7 or 8 months so im not one of you bitter vets who think they are entitled. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 565	Posted - 2014.08.18 10:57:00 - [27] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Half these people or more play ambush only. Ignore thread. i much prefer Domination.. and then skirmish.. ambush sucks unless a meatgrinder happens [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah