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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6417
   |
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Frankly less than 10% of the total playerbase voted for the cpm to begin with so it would be intresting to see what the % would be if we were allowed to vote them out and i wouldnt be suprised if it was higher
Then that 90% has no right to complain. Yes they do because 10% has voted for something that 90% dont want
THEN THEY SHOULD FREAKING VOTE
Democracy isn't something you do on cruise control people.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6422
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Frankly less than 10% of the total playerbase voted for the cpm to begin with so it would be intresting to see what the % would be if we were allowed to vote them out and i wouldnt be suprised if it was higher
Then that 90% has no right to complain. Yes they do because 10% has voted for something that 90% dont want THEN THEY SHOULD FREAKING VOTE Democracy isn't something you do on cruise control people. *SUPERDOUBLEWRISTARMSHATTERINGFACEPALM* Im sorry was there an option to not have the cpm? No there wasnt so why would you vote for something that you dont want to exist?
Why would you not want a CPM? It sounds like you want CCP in control of everything, which is a terrible idea IMO. They need to talk with the players. Since they can't talk with everyone, having a set of elected representatives is the next best option.
Unless you think that the CPM is actually HARMFUL to player-developer relations, your argument holds ZERO weight.
If there were no CPM, you wouldn't even have a voice anyways. They would do whatever they want, and you would have to live with it.
People love to claim that "Democracy doesn't work" or "They don't do anything, so why are they here?"
It doesn't work because people aren't active in it. It's the same problem with America right now. People are too lax in asserting their rights as citizens. Don't like what your congressman is doing? Don't vote for him. If enough people do this, he WILL NOT be re-elected.
People go through this with cruise control on, and expect good results. It doesn't work that way.
Want to have impact? Vote for someone that reflects your views as CPM. And then TALK to them.
I have more than one CPM member on skype, and I talk with them frequently about what I think should be done. If everyone did something similar, less people would complain, as decisions pushed by the CPM would be more in tune with the community.
/democracy rant
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6422
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Posted - 2014.08.14 21:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
PoP SoTa wrote:Ghost, please provide evidence that CPM has done anything beyond waste CCP's time.
Like I have access to that kind of info.
The best example I can give is when Devs and CPM talked to the scouts about re-balancing eWAR.
The changes we suggested had a lot of influence on the outcome. They aren't going to do whatever we want, but our voices were heard, and taken into account.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6422
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
PoP SoTa wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:If there were no CPM, you wouldn't even have a voice anyways. They would do whatever they want, and you would have to live with it. *Looks at feedback forums...sees extremely little CPM interaction....lots of dev / player interaction....* *scratches head* Most of what Ghost is saying here is regurgitated lines Zatara wants all his FA lackeys to say to make himself feel better about being CCP's janitor.
Because I can't think for myself apparently?
These are MY thoughts, not anyone else. Don't be this way SoTa. Continuing down this line of thinking will do nothing but diminish the respect I have for you.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6422
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
PoP SoTa wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:PoP SoTa wrote:Ghost, please provide evidence that CPM has done anything beyond waste CCP's time. Like I have access to that kind of info. The best example I can give is when Devs and CPM talked to the scouts about re-balancing eWAR. The changes we suggested had a lot of influence on the outcome. They aren't going to do whatever we want, but our voices were heard, and taken into account. You mean, you don't have any information to support the claim that CPM is doing anything to act as our 'voice' or our only voice according to you. Gotcha, so you have no idea what you're talking about. Good to know! 
Following that line of logic, do you have any proof explicitly showing that the Devs ignore the CPM (Which would be proof positive that they are a waste)?
If so, please bring it here. I'm sure it would be more convincing than almost anything else you could say.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6426
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Posted - 2014.08.14 21:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
PoP SoTa wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:PoP SoTa wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:PoP SoTa wrote:Ghost, please provide evidence that CPM has done anything beyond waste CCP's time. Like I have access to that kind of info. The best example I can give is when Devs and CPM talked to the scouts about re-balancing eWAR. The changes we suggested had a lot of influence on the outcome. They aren't going to do whatever we want, but our voices were heard, and taken into account. You mean, you don't have any information to support the claim that CPM is doing anything to act as our 'voice' or our only voice according to you. Gotcha, so you have no idea what you're talking about. Good to know! Following that line of logic, do you have any proof explicitly showing that the Devs ignore the CPM (Which would be proof positive that they are a waste)? If so, please bring it here. I'm sure it would be more convincing than almost anything else you could say. Do I have proof? Yes, yes I do. Please, refer to the old CPM section where we interacted with the CPM and they relayed some of what was going on. Council Chambers I believe, now, scroll around, and look at the topics. Notice a trend of what still sucks and what CPM is supposedly talking to CCP about? They aren't doing jack that isn't being accomplished in detail in the feedback section. If anything, the threads Nova has made show-cases just how poorly CCP is interacting with CPM that they had to PUBLICLY call them out on it - and from what I understand it only worked for a month of extra communication before going back to almost never seeing them. Shame I also can't share private conversations with CPM.
Link it.
Also: I just said that the CPM can't do whatever they want. If you want to be p*ssed about anything, complain the Devs, not the CPM. All they do is try to tell CCP what their reps want. They don't have the final say, and they really don't have too much power. They are our VOICES. That doesn't mean that CCP will LISTEN.
All this hate seems to be directed at the CPM, but it really seems that you are mad at CCP. Why the deflection onto the CPM?
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6432
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Posted - 2014.08.14 21:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:All this hate seems to be directed at the CPM, but it really seems that you are mad at CCP. Why the deflection onto the CPM?
Its not hate at the CPM as people, it's hate at the CPM as an establishment at all. If CCP is too incompetent to listen, then perhaps they should spend less time and money on a pointless endeavor, and, you know, hire some PROFESSIONALS to help remedy their own lack of competence when it comes to understanding their own product.
You know that CCP won't hire anyone professional to help out. Hell, they don't even have a TEST SERVER.
If you really think that the CPM are a waste, don't whine to them about it. Whine to CCP.
Send some mail. Do something. Don't just come to the forums, whine and complain and think that you are accomplishing something.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6432
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Posted - 2014.08.14 21:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
PoP SoTa wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:All this hate seems to be directed at the CPM, but it really seems that you are mad at CCP. Why the deflection onto the CPM?
Its not hate at the CPM as people, it's hate at the CPM as an establishment at all. If CCP is too incompetent to listen, then perhaps they should spend less time and money on a pointless endeavor, and, you know, hire some PROFESSIONALS to help remedy their own lack of competence when it comes to understanding their own product. You know that CCP won't hire anyone professional to help out. Hell, they don't even have a TEST SERVER. If you really think that the CPM are a waste, don't whine to them about it. Whine to CCP. Send some mail. Do something. Don't just come to the forums, whine and complain and think that you are accomplishing something. *Looks at forum name, checks to see if there's any Red or Blue tags, then checks to see if CCP reads forums* Green on all, so why can't we discuss it in view of CCP, exactly?
You can, but it's just extra drama.
You want results? Talk to the big guys. Send emails to people up the chain.
Complaining to a local manager at a chain about company policy does very little. You have to go up the chain if you want to see results.
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Minmatar Enthusiast
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6437
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 22:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:All this hate seems to be directed at the CPM, but it really seems that you are mad at CCP. Why the deflection onto the CPM?
Its not hate at the CPM as people, it's hate at the CPM as an establishment at all. If CCP is too incompetent to listen, then perhaps they should spend less time and money on a pointless endeavor, and, you know, hire some PROFESSIONALS to help remedy their own lack of competence when it comes to understanding their own product. You know that CCP won't hire anyone professional to help out. Hell, they don't even have a TEST SERVER. If you really think that the CPM are a waste, don't whine to them about it. Whine to CCP. Send some mail. Do something. Don't just come to the forums, whine and complain and think that you are accomplishing something. I spent two years trying to "accomplish" something. And in that time I've learned that it's pointless. Why waste effort on a dying game that makes changes on a whim, randomly, back and forth like a drunken seesaw? Why bother arguing with a community of mentally stunted scrubs who swear up and down that they understand the game, and with a company who happily listens to them and makes changes based on that feedback? Why attempt to communicate with a company who would happily give any of those players a seat in the CPM to directly engage with CCP if they're but voted in by the same mass of incompetent players? Im just here for my own amusement, nothing more. Please don't mistake my posts as some attempt to change anything. The ship is sinking, and I already stole a lifeboat.
I'm sorry, I legitimately thought you were trying to be productive.
I'll remember to discard that thought in the future.
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