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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2014
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Posted - 2014.08.14 10:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am afraid that AV vs. V. Is at this point impossible due to the lack of different AV weapons.
My reasonoing is as follows:
All AV class weapons are bonused to crack armor. The plasma cannon shall be considered an outlier case as it cannot, under normal circumstances, strike a dropship. The stars must align.
This creates an extreme difficulty balancing armor vs. Shields on vehicles.
Example 1: Gunnlogi and Madrugar vs. The Forge gun.
Utilizing a prototype breach or assault forge gun against an UNHARDENED vehicle in either case results in the following 9 out of 10 times:
Gunnlogi: 3 direct hits to destroy.
Madrugar: 4 direct hits to destroy.
In both cases the shots absolutely MUST land in rapid succession to terminate either vehicle or local reps will negate all damage effort. This is working as intended. Hardeners spike both tanks well outside single magazine termination. Again working as intended.
But the efficacy of the forge gun should mean the armor tank is more vulnerabl than the shield tank. By my observation the same holds true for swarms. Plasma cannons are working as intended, cutting deeper into shields and losing ground on the armor buffer.
On to dropships. They are singularly painful to talk about because there is only one survival method. Afterburners.
I do not know how effacious swarms are vs. The two different ADS. I will not comment here.
However, using the same unhardened qualifier, the destruction profile of tanked ADS (I dont bother to learn the names, sorry.) goes as follows:
Caldari: 3 shots to wreck.
Gallente: 3 shots to wreck.
Forge gun is bonused to armor but is as (or more) effacious against the shielded vehicles than armor. This creates massive balancing issues because the damage profiles are not "working as intended."
This analysis is from the perspective of a dedicated AV gunner with maxed out vehicle murder skills.
Until we have the full breadth of heavy weapons (both heavy weapons are bonused to armor, creating a similar problem vs. Dropsuits) as well as the amarr and minmatar light AV weapons it is my opinion that AV and vehicle balancing will be impossible.
Unfortunately if we raise the caldari vehicle buffers to compensate for this disparity we wind up with homogenized vehicles with more or less identical performance profiles. This is bad for the game, worse than what we have now.
This is why we cannot simply buff the caldari ADS. The Gallente one is already underutilized.
Further, Dropships should not be able to take hits equal to an HAV. But we cannot increase mobility unless we are willing to further the relegation of swarms to utter worthlessness.
If we had the other AV we could get away with the forge killing the madrugar in 3 but taking 4 on the gunnlogi because the gallente or amarr weapon would smear the caldari vehicles in the aforementioned "3 hits"
The other AV weapons are critical and the lack thereof makes balancing HAVs and Dropships impossible, unnecessarily. This leads to "What is the role of vehicles?" Questions as their stats wobble between cataclysmically overpowered and neutered like a castrati.
CCP please seriously consider accelerating the priority of releasing these AV assets so we can solidify the roles of each vehicle and begin restoring marauders, enforcers, scout LAVs, and Logi vehicles. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2014
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Posted - 2014.08.14 10:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
TL;DR:
We need all AV weapons or we cannot fix any vehicles. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12894
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Posted - 2014.08.14 11:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's also impossible because half the vehicles aren't in the game and damage and resistance profile do not like up properly.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2016
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Posted - 2014.08.14 11:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:It's also impossible because half the vehicles aren't in the game and damage and resistance profile do not like up properly.
We have shield vehicles and their armored counterparts.
This is meaningful though not ideal. Your post is relevant but unfortunately its a case of "six of one, half a dozen of the other. Chicken or egg.
Also consider either the amarr or gallente heavy weapon will be anti-infantry. I'm thinking the amarr one, because having a +20% anti shield AV weapon and only +10% anti armor AV would utterly F**k the caldari vehicles. It would widen the gap between shields and armor And cause a mass abandonment of shield vehicles. |
Glitch116
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
135
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
the thing you have to keep in mind is that armor vehicles for the most part are going to have more EHP then a shield vehicle
armor vehicles also have shields that your av is less effective against this takes the sting off that first blow
also armor vehicle rep while taking fire so they are pulling back their tank while you shot them shields do not
this means that armor vehicles have the ehp advantage over shields this is why most av is armor based as armor is tougher to crack
I AM THE KING OF THE BLASTER!!!
deal with it
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ladwar
HEARTS OF PHOENIX
2037
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Posted - 2014.08.14 22:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lol , incubus under utilized. Rail incubus is super common because of its high dps vs vehicles. pythons are only use to kill infantry.
Next cal vs gal methodology .
Cal is brawler style and gal is hit and run. You heard it right. (troll coming)thats why as a hit and run gal have the most ehp and cal has to sacrifice tank for dps. (troll over) methodology to slots 4 modules and hp do not match up.
Btw gal tank is the faster. Hp needs to be switched and speeds to match 4 suits and vehicles. You want highest armor the go amarr. Cal shouldn't be behind gal in hp.
Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet.
I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth
doing reviews in free time, want 1?
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2031
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Posted - 2014.08.15 00:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Glitch116 wrote:the thing you have to keep in mind is that armor vehicles for the most part are going to have more EHP then a shield vehicle
armor vehicles also have shields that your av is less effective against this takes the sting off that first blow
also armor vehicle rep while taking fire so they are pulling back their tank while you shot them shields do not
this means that armor vehicles have the ehp advantage over shields this is why most av is armor based as armor is tougher to crack
No its because the heavy shield cracker weapon doesnt exist and there is no minmatar or amarr AV yet.
It is not because "armor vehicles are harder to kill so rig for armor."
The amarr/gallente AV weapons will be bonused to kill shields. Minmatar/caldari will be bonused to bust armor. |
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