DUST Search - [rant] Give my my ADS, Charlie!!!!

Derrith Erador wrote:

emm kay wrote:

Derrith Erador wrote:

.................... I hate to agree with the AV community, but there is this thing called engaging the forge gunner/swarm launcher. With the swarm all you have to do is tank his two to three shots then kill him, or kill him while he's shooting you. When fighting a forge gunner, all you have to fly circles around him and evade his shots, wait for him to reload and go balls out on him, or if you're good enough, shoot him while flying circles. It's not hard to do this.

And on a side note, who puts 3 xt-1s on an ADS? That's asking to get killed.

Flying in circles solves nothing. eventually the forge will wisen up and get you. even if (s)he didn't, when flying in circles you can shoot nothing. So you're stuck there until the match ends or forge number 2 enters. Once number two is there, your drop ship is dead. (unless you come by some miracle) I have all proto AV (infantry) ,.and i've killed more ADS that I have lost.

You clearly haven't seen me or any other vets fly. There are plenty of ADS pilots who can easily fly circles and **** a lone forge. I've seen it, done it, and been on the receiving end of it. There are also other avoidance strategies where you can return fire while avoiding their shots, but there are too many, and they are too complicated to explain. And on the forger smarting up and learning to lead, there are only two forgers I've encountered who can do that against an effective pilot, Senator Snipe and Dust User. Perhaps you just need to practice avoiding.

Many of the points you bring up are only issues that inexperienced pilots go through. The kind that hover when engaging infantry and let rail tanks and forges shoot them.

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emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 171	Posted - 2014.08.14 05:38:00 - [1] - Quote I can't even tell how disturbed I am that CCP cancelled the dropship prices so suddenly before the hotfix . because i'm trying to be reasonable, I'll shorten a wall of text into a list of bullets ADS is currently the most expensive vehicle in game. period.(3x XT-01+ python +modules = 750k) with forge guns, ADS are, more less, easy to take out. they're so weak we are constantly on the run plink..... boom. you took way our stacking. we invested MILLIONS, I **** you not ,millions of SP to be able to properly fly this ship. even running this ship properly constantly requires us to run constantly. your render engine has distance issues you buffed installations. this is rediculous now, after a few seconds with no indication, your shields are down. millitia swarm? LOL NOPE that was the new Wyurkomi launcher. you can't tell the difference. most of the things you did in charlie were AGAINST vehicles. Tthat's not balancing. That's murdering the crowd, the price needs the drop ASAP. the HP buff isn't needed. but the price of the winged coffin is rediculous. -- You called, sir?
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 473	Posted - 2014.08.14 06:12:00 - [2] - Quote Boo ***** hoo.. all because you want a cheap way to kill players with 0 risk to yourself.. btw this should be on general if its just a rant. btw it was near imposable to take down a competent ADS pilot in python with AB every 10 seconds and their assend speed being greater then missile speed.. ooh what else.. you got +500 or was it 600 more shields proto swarms were actually nerfed slightly and mil/std/adv buffed up a bit so the curve was not as steep and players has viable low SP cost way to drive off (if not kill) vehicles.. so learn to economize or get your ass out of your python and get your feet on the battlefield and FIGHT [LogiBro in Training]** channel: BP SQUAD
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1841	Posted - 2014.08.14 07:51:00 - [3] - Quote Th Python does need the buff, but this is a poor way to argue for it. Try this: if the Python got the buff, it would be possible to make a 5k ehp tank. Sounds OP right? That shouldn't exist in the game because it could never be killed right? Well guess what, it already exists and I can personally testify, I still get shot down regularly. It's called the Incubus. The Incubus is capable of fitting a 5.2k ehp BUFFER (meaning no hardener) fit and proto missile/railgun with a 200hp regen (counting both shield and armor), with an AB. And yet, I get threatened and shot down on a daily basis (I would also like to note that I am not a terrible pilot; proof I ADS in PC for Molon regularly and ring for others in Tso's). Now I order to match this, the Python would need to have that 500hp bonus and be fitted with an enh AB, enh Heavy Extender, and a complex Hardener. This grants 3k buffer and a 5k hardened amount (I discount armor because it isn't significant and doesn't regen like the incubus' shield buffer). This matches the Incubus' tank, true, but ONLY FOR 30sec max, and with nearly a minute cooldown. This falls inline with what CCP desires from sheld vehicles: being BURST TANKERS that do a lot of damage very quickly and then retreats to recharge.
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 172	Posted - 2014.08.14 14:37:00 - [4] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: btw it was near imposable to take down a competent ADS pilot in python with AB every 10 seconds and their assend speed being greater then missile speed.. you're foretting the following AV tactics: Rail installation Rail tank blaster installation missile installation missile tank forge guns / assault forge guns. none of which we are faster than. -- You called, sir?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2021	Posted - 2014.08.14 15:03:00 - [5] - Quote You have invested millions of SP to fly an ADS. Does this mean that I should be impotent even though I have invested millions of SP in destroying vehicles like yours? I find this odd idea that your SP investment is more important than MY SP investment. Please do go on and explain. I am all ears.
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 172	Posted - 2014.08.14 19:52:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You have invested millions of SP to fly an ADS. Does this mean that I should be impotent even though I have invested millions of SP in destroying vehicles like yours? I find this odd idea that your SP investment is more important than MY SP investment. Please do go on and explain. I am all ears. The Specilist swarm launcher is 300k sp. Have fun downing pythons for minimum sp -- You called, sir?
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2430	Posted - 2014.08.14 20:11:00 - [7] - Quote .................... I hate to agree with the AV community, but there is this thing called engaging the forge gunner/swarm launcher. With the swarm all you have to do is tank his two to three shots then kill him, or kill him while he's shooting you. When fighting a forge gunner, all you have to fly circles around him and evade his shots, wait for him to reload and go balls out on him, or if you're good enough, shoot him while flying circles. It's not hard to do this. And on a side note, who puts 3 xt-1s on an ADS? That's asking to get killed. I am the skybound warrior, you will know to run when you hear the music from above that make panties disappear.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 445	Posted - 2014.08.14 20:23:00 - [8] - Quote I love ADS tears. Get good and grab a forge you scrubs.
Tread Loudly 2 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 31	Posted - 2014.08.14 21:20:00 - [9] - Quote I agree partially on both sides of this arguement -,- While there are times AV seems to be weak I have absolutely obliterated vehicles with av as well as them completely obliterating me while operating my vehicle. AV wise after hotfix charlie I have destroyed tanks with Nova Knives I feel like the Swarm Launcher changes were a buff across the board which I don't mind However the Forge guns still out dps my ******* HAV at a range in which I can't see them but they can see me as well as they have more maneuverability as well as a simple way to kill vehicles. On the same topic, forge gunning does take skill to some extent however nothing can run from a good Forge Gunner I Like Tanks, ADS's, and Ion Pistols!
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 172	Posted - 2014.08.14 21:32:00 - [10] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: .................... I hate to agree with the AV community, but there is this thing called engaging the forge gunner/swarm launcher. With the swarm all you have to do is tank his two to three shots then kill him, or kill him while he's shooting you. When fighting a forge gunner, all you have to fly circles around him and evade his shots, wait for him to reload and go balls out on him, or if you're good enough, shoot him while flying circles. It's not hard to do this. And on a side note, who puts 3 xt-1s on an ADS? That's asking to get killed. Flying in circles solves nothing. eventually the forge will wisen up and get you. even if (s)he didn't, when flying in circles you can shoot nothing. So you're stuck there until the match ends or forge number 2 enters. Once number two is there, your drop ship is dead. (unless you come by some miracle) I have all proto AV (infantry) ,.and i've killed more ADS that I have lost. -- You called, sir?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12900	Posted - 2014.08.14 21:44:00 - [11] - Quote emm kay wrote: I can't even tell how disturbed I am that CCP cancelled the dropship prices so suddenly before the hotfix . because i'm trying to be reasonable, I'll shorten a wall of text into a list of bullets ADS is currently the most expensive vehicle in game. period.(3x XT-01+ python +modules = 750k) with forge guns, ADS are, more less, easy to take out. they're so weak we are constantly on the run plink..... boom. you took way our stacking. we invested MILLIONS, I **** you not ,millions of SP to be able to properly fly this ship. even running this ship properly constantly requires us to run constantly. your render engine has distance issues you buffed installations. this is rediculous now, after a few seconds with no indication, your shields are down. millitia swarm? LOL NOPE that was the new Wyurkomi launcher. you can't tell the difference. most of the things you did in charlie were AGAINST vehicles. Tthat's not balancing. That's murdering the crowd, the price needs the drop ASAP. the HP buff isn't needed. but the price of the winged coffin is rediculous. BULLSHIT what ADSer puts 3x proto turrets on their ship.....actually what ADSer can fit 3x proto turrets and a decent tank? "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2432	Posted - 2014.08.14 21:50:00 - [12] - Quote emm kay wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: .................... I hate to agree with the AV community, but there is this thing called engaging the forge gunner/swarm launcher. With the swarm all you have to do is tank his two to three shots then kill him, or kill him while he's shooting you. When fighting a forge gunner, all you have to fly circles around him and evade his shots, wait for him to reload and go balls out on him, or if you're good enough, shoot him while flying circles. It's not hard to do this. And on a side note, who puts 3 xt-1s on an ADS? That's asking to get killed. Flying in circles solves nothing. eventually the forge will wisen up and get you. even if (s)he didn't, when flying in circles you can shoot nothing. So you're stuck there until the match ends or forge number 2 enters. Once number two is there, your drop ship is dead. (unless you come by some miracle) I have all proto AV (infantry) ,.and i've killed more ADS that I have lost. You clearly haven't seen me or any other vets fly. There are plenty of ADS pilots who can easily fly circles and **** a lone forge. I've seen it, done it, and been on the receiving end of it. There are also other avoidance strategies where you can return fire while avoiding their shots, but there are too many, and they are too complicated to explain. And on the forger smarting up and learning to lead, there are only two forgers I've encountered who can do that against an effective pilot, Senator Snipe and Dust User. Perhaps you just need to practice avoiding. Many of the points you bring up are only issues that inexperienced pilots go through. The kind that hover when engaging infantry and let rail tanks and forges shoot them. I am the skybound warrior, you will know to run when you hear the music from above that make panties disappear.
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 49	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:15:00 - [13] - Quote I guess they could be redused to 300,000 but there good the way they are. SPAWN.KILL.DIE.RESPAWN.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 451	Posted - 2014.08.15 14:20:00 - [14] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: emm kay wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: .................... I hate to agree with the AV community, but there is this thing called engaging the forge gunner/swarm launcher. With the swarm all you have to do is tank his two to three shots then kill him, or kill him while he's shooting you. When fighting a forge gunner, all you have to fly circles around him and evade his shots, wait for him to reload and go balls out on him, or if you're good enough, shoot him while flying circles. It's not hard to do this. And on a side note, who puts 3 xt-1s on an ADS? That's asking to get killed. Flying in circles solves nothing. eventually the forge will wisen up and get you. even if (s)he didn't, when flying in circles you can shoot nothing. So you're stuck there until the match ends or forge number 2 enters. Once number two is there, your drop ship is dead. (unless you come by some miracle) I have all proto AV (infantry) ,.and i've killed more ADS that I have lost. You clearly haven't seen me or any other vets fly. There are plenty of ADS pilots who can easily fly circles and **** a lone forge. I've seen it, done it, and been on the receiving end of it. There are also other avoidance strategies where you can return fire while avoiding their shots, but there are too many, and they are too complicated to explain. And on the forger smarting up and learning to lead, there are only two forgers I've encountered who can do that against an effective pilot, Senator Snipe and Dust User. Perhaps you just need to practice avoiding. Many of the points you bring up are only issues that inexperienced pilots go through. The kind that hover when engaging infantry and let rail tanks and forges shoot them. This man speaks the truth.
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 173	Posted - 2014.08.15 14:29:00 - [15] - Quote I guess my point is, I feel entitled to a price OR HP buff, especially considering Charlie buffed AV thru the roof. ( installations, swarms, spread, Novas, render distance, etc.). Call me greedy, but I think its fair to ask for a buff. -- You called, sir?
Shooter Somewhere Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2014.08.15 15:05:00 - [16] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Boo ******* hoo.. all because you want a cheap way to kill players with 0 risk to yourself.. btw this should be on general if its just a rant. btw it was near imposable to take down a competent ADS pilot in python with AB every 10 seconds and their assend speed being greater then missile speed.. ooh what else.. you got +500 or was it 600 more shields proto swarms were actually nerfed slightly and mil/std/adv buffed up a bit so the curve was not as steep and players has viable low SP cost way to drive off (if not kill) vehicles.. so learn to economize or get your ass out of your python and get your feet on the battlefield and FIGHT Forge gunner Scanned"climb up the building to kill him blueberry!" Looks at you with stupid blank 4 glowing eyed face SIR YES SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!! climbs up ladder Apothecary killed(ishk assault SMG) blueberry HEADSHOT! HEADSHOT!! HEADSHOT!!! HEADSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=earCbU6vgAo
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 718	Posted - 2014.08.15 15:11:00 - [17] - Quote True Adamance wrote: BULLSHIT what ADSer puts 3x proto turrets on their ship.....actually what ADSer can fit 3x proto turrets and a decent tank? Um, those who want to deploy multiple gunners (and skill stacking aside, gunners are the way to go) and/or actually provide great air support for their ground team? I run with Numnutz often and even with just one gunner we support our team better than I alone have done. (Insert obvious douchebag attempt to troll by saying I'm rubbish.) Alt of Halla Murr.
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 175	Posted - 2014.08.15 17:03:00 - [18] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: True Adamance wrote: BULLSHIT what ADSer puts 3x proto turrets on their ship.....actually what ADSer can fit 3x proto turrets and a decent tank? Um, those who want to deploy multiple gunners (and skill stacking aside, gunners are the way to go) and/or actually provide great air support for their ground team? I run with Numnutz often and even with just one gunner we support our team better than I alone have done. (Insert obvious douchebag attempt to troll by saying I'm rubbish.) Gunners are actually the only way to go if you plan on giving support. my buddy and I will often go and do matches together in a, python. While the pilot can only aim on the Y axis, gunners get X, Y, AND Z(zoom). I don't mind that stacking was taken out in Charlie except the small missile skills. Those should always stack on every vehicle. in the long run, gunners will save you tons of time and money. -- You called, sir?
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 934	Posted - 2014.08.15 17:34:00 - [19] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: you got +500 or was it 600 more shields Did we? When? I still haven't noticed it.
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11426	Posted - 2014.08.15 17:47:00 - [20] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Th Python does need the buff, but this is a poor way to argue for it. Try this: if the Python got the buff, it would be possible to make a 5k ehp tank. Sounds OP right? That shouldn't exist in the game because it could never be killed right? Well guess what, it already exists and I can personally testify, I still get shot down regularly. It's called the Incubus. The Incubus is capable of fitting a 5.2k ehp BUFFER (meaning no hardener) fit and proto missile/railgun with a 200hp regen (counting both shield and armor), with an AB. And yet, I get threatened and shot down on a daily basis (I would also like to note that I am not a terrible pilot; proof I ADS in PC for Molon regularly and ring for others in Tso's). You seem to be confused with the difference between Hit Points and Effective Hit Points. Hit Points (what you're actually referring to) is it's total HP before you factor in things such as resistances and weapon efficiency. Effective Hit Points (eHP) is the total HP with resistances, weapon efficiencies, and other factors included. I've made a Spreadsheet showing the effective HP against an Incubus with your suggested fitting, and as you can see the way to have 5k eHP with an Incubus is if your fitting a Plasma Cannon with no core skills. And lets be honest here, Plasma Cannons are non-factors against Assault Dropships. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11428	Posted - 2014.08.15 17:49:00 - [21] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: you got +500 or was it 600 more shields Did we? When? I still haven't noticed it. Thankfully, the HP buff (along with the Price Reduction) was cancelled for Hotfix Charlie. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 934	Posted - 2014.08.15 17:54:00 - [22] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: .................... I hate to agree with the AV community, but there is this thing called engaging the forge gunner/swarm launcher. With the swarm all you have to do is tank his two to three shots then kill him, or kill him while he's shooting you. When fighting a forge gunner, all you have to fly circles around him and evade his shots, wait for him to reload and go balls out on him, or if you're good enough, shoot him while flying circles. It's not hard to do this. And on a side note, who puts 3 xt-1s on an ADS? That's asking to get killed. And I hate to disagree with you but I've met plenty of Forge Gunners who are more than capable of tracking you even when flying in circles or doing any other fancy moves and depending on the fit (both mine and the AV guy's) 3 Swarm volleys can kill the Python. At the most it takes 4 volleys, so if he is in a well defendable position there is absolutely nothing that you can do about it, because the first 2, if not even 3 volleys will be invisible and each volley that hits you will (in many occasions) throw your aim off till the next one hits you. Also depending on your position and the map (frame rate), just getting shot once by whatever with knockback can instantly kill you. Then again one could argue that you should not be flying there in the first place. To answer your side note: I don't but when I really wanna have lots of fun, I put 3x AT's on it but I don't complain if I die with that (because I sacrifice like 100 or so EHP for that). Anyway, none of this was an argument for or against an ADS buff. I would have loved to get more shields, but tbh, I don't think that would have been the right way to buff ADS. More fitting flexibility maybe? Shield collision damage reduction? Definitely not a price reduction, nooohooo. Only thing that bothers me is how much more damage shields take from collision in comparision to armor. Also, lol suicide pilots.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1043	Posted - 2014.08.16 02:25:00 - [23] - Quote I wish the ADS would have gotten the price drop but not the shield buff. It is definitely harder to be a pilot now and I want there to be vehicles, I have no purpose if the pilots won't bring them out. Because, that's why.
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 175	Posted - 2014.08.16 04:40:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: And lets be honest here, Plasma Cannons are non-factors against Assault Dropships. when I said I have all proto AV I wasn't throwing out the PlC. wait till it's close to a wall ( not often, but there are windows), then FFFFFFTBOOM and you've downed a python (or any derpship for that matter) in one shot. Atiim wrote: Hit Points (what you're actually referring to) is it's total HP before you factor in things such as resistances and weapon efficiency. Effective Hit Points (eHP) is the total HP with resistances, ~~weapon efficiencies~~, and other factors included. FTFY. all effeciencies are evenly balanced and weighted. -- You called, sir?
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 908	Posted - 2014.08.16 04:45:00 - [25] - Quote Two words. LP store. *Eternal Beings* - #76 in All Time WP - #90 in All Time Kills. Member since day one, 10 months ago.
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 175	Posted - 2014.08.16 14:53:00 - [26] - Quote bamboo x wrote: Two words. LP store. Not pythons nor incubuses, nor vehicle modules are in the lp store. -- You called, sir?
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11470	Posted - 2014.08.17 06:49:00 - [27] - Quote emm kay wrote: Atiim wrote: And lets be honest here, Plasma Cannons are non-factors against Assault Dropships. when I said I have all proto AV I wasn't throwing out the PlC. wait till it's close to a wall ( not often, but there are windows), then FFFFFFTBOOM and you've downed a python (or any derpship for that matter) in one shot. There must be more terri-bads in an ADS than I thought. Atiim wrote: Hit Points (what you're actually referring to) is it's total HP before you factor in things such as resistances and weapon efficiency. Effective Hit Points (eHP) is the total HP with resistances, ~~weapon efficiencies~~, and other factors included. FTFY. all effeciencies are evenly balanced and weighted.[/quote] So when Vulpes claimed to have a 5.2k eHP Incubus, he factored in Proficiency Skills, Weapon Profiles, and Commando operation skill? May I have his fit then? DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 177	Posted - 2014.08.17 16:41:00 - [28] - Quote Atiim wrote: So when Vulpes claimed to have a 5.2k eHP Incubus, he factored in Proficiency Skills, Weapon Profiles, and Commando operation skill? May I have his fit then? when you calculate your eHP you are calculating the damage you can take against a certain type of weapon ( or all of them, if you weight them evenly) for example the incubus may have 5,200 eHP, this means, that if we weren't including passive shield regen, It would take 5,200 damage from a multispectral weapon to destroy it. the 3 skills you're talking about are DPS skills, and you factor them into your dps, not other's eHP. for example, a commando MK.0 with proto swarm and max effeciency. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but let's say the reload time is 2.40 seconds ( base) and the lock is 1.40s (base) and the damage per missile is about 300 ( base) so, without any skills you launch 4 missiles every 1.4 seconds (4/1.4 = 2.86 missiles every second) multiply that by 300 damage per missile (2.86 * 300 = 857 Dps) . If we include reload time (4/(1.4+(2.40/3))300 = 545.5 SUSTAINED DPS) that's and a verave of 545.5 dps every second, assuming you have infinite ammo. here is where the bonusues are factored in: the MK.0 has a 5% reload bonus, so we'll take that off the swarms at level V, for a 1.8 second reload time. the minmatar also gives a bax bonus of 10% damage increase for swarms, getting us to 330 damage. at profeciency v there is another 15% bonus, adding that in, we get 380 damage per swarm. now, let's re math in with the bonus (4/(1.4+(1.80/3))380 = 780 SUSTAINED DPS) now that we have the max dps and the eHP of the inccubus, we calculate the expected time it should survive 5,200HP/780DPS = about 6.67 seconds, if the incubus has a repair module for 30 HP/s, that's (5,200/(780 dps - 30 hp/s) = 6.9 seconds, so obviously the passive repair is no use in combat. that, my friend, is battle logistics. -- You called, sir?
Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS Top Men. 2611	Posted - 2014.08.18 02:15:00 - [29] - Quote Prices and shields were skipped, Need a bucket with those tears? I was mad to but guess what, You gotta adapt or die! EDIT: Incubus ftw (at least for this build *Bring These Back*
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 165	Posted - 2014.08.18 03:19:00 - [30] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: I guess they could be redused to 300,000 but there good the way they are. Oh goodie... I can save 23,000 isk... More like 100,000, the price of a tank. I wouldn't mind that if they weren't going to go any lower. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.

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