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Meee One 1.U.P 966	Posted - 2014.08.10 18:17:00 - [1] - Quote Dual tanking is popular because it's easy to do. It enables any suit to stack a nonracial defense. For example : Cal medium frame 210 shield 120 armor +1 enh plate =effective dual tank. I was thinking (while on my sudden vacation) what makes sense lore wise? Then it came to me,change stats to match lore. Please note:This would be applied to suit stats,not slots. Amarr:5%shield.95%armor The ultimate in brick tank,faith is the only shield they desire. Cal:95%shield,5% armor Given the bare minimal to survive,caldari suits stack thick shields to compensate.Would possibly require a regen amount boost of 5-15 S/PS Gal:30%shield,70%armor Focusing instead of straight brick tank, they instead focus on repairing their lower eHP reserves. Min:55% shield, 45% armor The most balanced of the four,preferring fast shield regen and speed over straight brick tank. These could be encouraged more with bonuses on the dropsuit unlock nodes. Amarr: Increased effectiveness of plates = more eHP per plates and less penalty/fitting Cal: Increased effectiveness of shield extenders and rechargers/energizers = more shield less penalty/fitting Gal: Increased effectiveness of repair modules/reactive plates = more repair less penalty /fitting Min: Increased effectiveness of biotics and regulators = more speed to regen their lower eHP and biotics to enabled better movement for their sacrifice. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1864	Posted - 2014.08.10 18:25:00 - [2] - Quote Meee One wrote: Dual tanking is popular because it's easy to do. It enables any suit to stack a nonracial defense. For example : Cal medium frame 210 shield 120 armor +1 enh plate =effective dual tank. I was thinking (while on my sudden vacation) what makes sense lore wise? Then it came to me,change stats to match lore. Please note:This would be applied to suit stats,not slots. Amarr:5%shield.95%armor The ultimate in brick tank,faith is the only shield they desire. Cal:95%shield,5% armor Given the bare minimal to survive,caldari suits stack thick shields to compensate.Would possibly require a regen amount boost of 5-15 S/PS Gal:30%shield,70%armor Focusing instead of straight brick tank, they instead focus on repairing their lower eHP reserves. Min:55% shield, 45% armor The most balanced of the four,preferring fast shield regen and speed over straight brick tank. These could be encouraged more with bonuses on the dropsuit unlock nodes. Amarr: Increased effectiveness of plates = more eHP per plates and less penalty/fitting Cal: Increased effectiveness of shield extenders and rechargers/energizers = more shield less penalty/fitting Gal: Increased effectiveness of repair modules/reactive plates = more repair less penalty /fitting Min: Increased effectiveness of biotics and regulators = more speed to regen their lower eHP and biotics to enabled better movement for their sacrifice. I can get behind this. Dual tanking is bullshit anyway.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 396	Posted - 2014.08.10 20:59:00 - [3] - Quote the problem is shield tanking is literally 1/2 as effective as armor.. and since people hate to die they stack the F out of BOTH.. if shield extenders were like.. 50->75->100 maybe it would be worth useing shield rechargers and regulators insted of plates. [LogiBro in Training] channel: BP SQUAD come join the fun
BL4CKST4R LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 2896	Posted - 2014.08.10 21:37:00 - [4] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: the problem is shield tanking is literally 1/2 as effective as armor.. and since people hate to die they stack the F out of BOTH.. if shield extenders were like.. 50->75->100 maybe it would be worth useing shield rechargers and regulators insted of plates. If you could have that much HP while also repairing at 80HP/s you would never die shields need to hp buff. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7132	Posted - 2014.08.10 21:56:00 - [5] - Quote Dual tanking needs to gtfo. see you space cowboy...
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1898	Posted - 2014.08.10 22:01:00 - [6] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: the problem is shield tanking is literally 1/2 as effective as armor.. and since people hate to die they stack the F out of BOTH.. if shield extenders were like.. 50->75->100 maybe it would be worth useing shield rechargers and regulators insted of plates. No it isn't. It is when you try brawling. But when you utilize mobility and range to keep you out of murderface range? Shields are a lot more survivable.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12738	Posted - 2014.08.10 23:10:00 - [7] - Quote Meee One wrote: Dual tanking is popular because it's easy to do. It enables any suit to stack a nonracial defense. For example : Cal medium frame 210 shield 120 armor +1 enh plate =effective dual tank. I was thinking (while on my sudden vacation) what makes sense lore wise? Then it came to me,change stats to match lore. Please note:This would be applied to suit stats,not slots. Amarr:5%shield.95%armor The ultimate in brick tank,faith is the only shield they desire. Cal:95%shield,5% armor Given the bare minimal to survive,caldari suits stack thick shields to compensate.Would possibly require a regen amount boost of 5-15 S/PS Gal:30%shield,70%armor Focusing instead of straight brick tank, they instead focus on repairing their lower eHP reserves. Min:55% shield, 45% armor The most balanced of the four,preferring fast shield regen and speed over straight brick tank. These could be encouraged more with bonuses on the dropsuit unlock nodes. Amarr: Increased effectiveness of plates = more eHP per plates and less penalty/fitting Cal: Increased effectiveness of shield extenders and rechargers/energizers = more shield less penalty/fitting Gal: Increased effectiveness of repair modules/reactive plates = more repair less penalty /fitting Min: Increased effectiveness of biotics and regulators = more speed to regen their lower eHP and biotics to enabled better movement for their sacrifice. I wholly disagree and this is why. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/19961-PVP-Harbinger-620dps-72-8k-EHP-rigged-55k-unrigged.html and http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/43716-Harbinger-966-dps-Psycho-Harb-64k-hp-Gang-Issue.html There is no need to restrict players arbitrarily like you suggest. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 264	Posted - 2014.08.10 23:36:00 - [8] - Quote I think the racial slot stats already largely are doing this, Cal have a bunch of highs, Gal abunch of lows, Amarr a little of both but slow movement, Min a little of both but fast movement. The base stats race-wise are in line with the slot stats and lore appropriate. It might be worth considering also that in EVE combat occurs between vehicles, naval fleet sim style if you will, so fitting is geared to reflect that whereas here our combat is largley infantry/small vehicle based so the stats/slots reflect some differences from EVE. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7134	Posted - 2014.08.11 00:06:00 - [9] - Quote It's not that shields are that much better than shields though. A large problem is that idiots get a shield suit and want to use it like a brawling suit. You can't all be Gallente, I know, it's a hard reality to face but you guys simply aren't like us. Go play at range like the squid your are Or if you're Minmatar Run really fast and spam bullets like an idiot and hope you hit something. see you space cowboy...
Coleman Gray Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1017	Posted - 2014.08.11 00:14:00 - [10] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: It's not that shields are that much better than shields though. A large problem is that idiots get a shield suit and want to use it like a brawling suit. You can't all be Gallente, I know, it's a hard reality to face but you guys simply aren't like us. Go play at range like the squid your are Or if you're Minmatar Run really fast and spam bullets like an idiot and hope you hit something. This...everyone wants to be in the action...not long ago I seen an Amarr assault with a LR taking part in what was a cluster f uck of CQC at an objective, the poor soul, he was shining his flashlight all the way through, I think people took pity because even tho he was shooting people they ran past or ignored him totally to kill someone else lol. If Preparation is half of the battle and knowing is the other half, Then there is no need to fight.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12739	Posted - 2014.08.11 00:28:00 - [11] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: I think the racial slot stats already largely are doing this, Cal have a bunch of highs, Gal abunch of lows, Amarr a little of both but slow movement, Min a little of both but fast movement. The base stats race-wise are in line with the slot stats and lore appropriate. It might be worth considering also that in EVE combat occurs between vehicles, naval fleet sim style if you will, so fitting is geared to reflect that whereas here our combat is largley infantry/small vehicle based so the stats/slots reflect those differences between DUST and EVE. That however does not mean that one racial group cannot do with infantry units what they can do with space ships. The premise remains fundamentally the same. It's like saying using a massive industrial cutter I can shear through paper....... but using kitchen scissors I cannot. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 264	Posted - 2014.08.11 00:44:00 - [12] - Quote True Adamance wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: I think the racial slot stats already largely are doing this, Cal have a bunch of highs, Gal abunch of lows, Amarr a little of both but slow movement, Min a little of both but fast movement. The base stats race-wise are in line with the slot stats and lore appropriate. It might be worth considering also that in EVE combat occurs between vehicles, naval fleet sim style if you will, so fitting is geared to reflect that whereas here our combat is largley infantry/small vehicle based so the stats/slots reflect those differences between DUST and EVE. That however does not mean that one racial group cannot do with infantry units what they can do with space ships. The premise remains fundamentally the same. It's like saying using a massive industrial cutter I can shear through paper....... but using kitchen scissors I cannot. Agreed, which is where the existing similarities come from. The final results tho ARE markedly different, if for no other reason than scale. Like the final condition of your examples cut paper after the scissors vs. after the massive industrial saw. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12740	Posted - 2014.08.11 00:46:00 - [13] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: True Adamance wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: I think the racial slot stats already largely are doing this, Cal have a bunch of highs, Gal abunch of lows, Amarr a little of both but slow movement, Min a little of both but fast movement. The base stats race-wise are in line with the slot stats and lore appropriate. It might be worth considering also that in EVE combat occurs between vehicles, naval fleet sim style if you will, so fitting is geared to reflect that whereas here our combat is largley infantry/small vehicle based so the stats/slots reflect those differences between DUST and EVE. That however does not mean that one racial group cannot do with infantry units what they can do with space ships. The premise remains fundamentally the same. It's like saying using a massive industrial cutter I can shear through paper....... but using kitchen scissors I cannot. Agreed, which is where the existing similarities come from. The final results tho ARE markedly different, if for no other reason than scale. Like the final condition of your examples cut paper after the scissors vs. after the massive industrial saw. I wish damage mods were in the low slots. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2032	Posted - 2014.08.11 00:49:00 - [14] - Quote Well i would like to agree to this i can see a lot of resistance coming from the devs and FOTM players. Armarr and cal numbers are too extreme. 80/20 and vice versa would better. And if cal extender were 75-90-110 i could easily agree to this. But the base level armor plates would need to take a nerf so gal and min didnt benefit into armor tanking. Bring eve mind set into dust with real visibility. And so let the warriors rage on... Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7138	Posted - 2014.08.11 00:58:00 - [15] - Quote True Adamance wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: True Adamance wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: I think the racial slot stats already largely are doing this, Cal have a bunch of highs, Gal abunch of lows, Amarr a little of both but slow movement, Min a little of both but fast movement. The base stats race-wise are in line with the slot stats and lore appropriate. It might be worth considering also that in EVE combat occurs between vehicles, naval fleet sim style if you will, so fitting is geared to reflect that whereas here our combat is largley infantry/small vehicle based so the stats/slots reflect those differences between DUST and EVE. That however does not mean that one racial group cannot do with infantry units what they can do with space ships. The premise remains fundamentally the same. It's like saying using a massive industrial cutter I can shear through paper....... but using kitchen scissors I cannot. Agreed, which is where the existing similarities come from. The final results tho ARE markedly different, if for no other reason than scale. Like the final condition of your examples cut paper after the scissors vs. after the massive industrial saw. I wish damage mods were in the low slots. I wish Kin Kats were in the Highslots. Care to make a trade? see you space cowboy...
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2032	Posted - 2014.08.11 01:01:00 - [16] - Quote Yes, damage mods to low slots even vehicles, i'll trade you all my star wars collectable cups 4 it Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12745	Posted - 2014.08.11 02:33:00 - [17] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: True Adamance wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: True Adamance wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: I think the racial slot stats already largely are doing this, Cal have a bunch of highs, Gal abunch of lows, Amarr a little of both but slow movement, Min a little of both but fast movement. The base stats race-wise are in line with the slot stats and lore appropriate. It might be worth considering also that in EVE combat occurs between vehicles, naval fleet sim style if you will, so fitting is geared to reflect that whereas here our combat is largley infantry/small vehicle based so the stats/slots reflect those differences between DUST and EVE. That however does not mean that one racial group cannot do with infantry units what they can do with space ships. The premise remains fundamentally the same. It's like saying using a massive industrial cutter I can shear through paper....... but using kitchen scissors I cannot. Agreed, which is where the existing similarities come from. The final results tho ARE markedly different, if for no other reason than scale. Like the final condition of your examples cut paper after the scissors vs. after the massive industrial saw. I wish damage mods were in the low slots. I wish Kin Kats were in the Highslots. Care to make a trade? One cycle of Prop mods gents! "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12746	Posted - 2014.08.11 02:43:00 - [18] - Quote ladwar wrote: Yes, damage mods to low slots even vehicles, i'll trade you all my star wars collectable cups 4 it And not just Damage modules. Weapon Type Modules. Heat Sinks (apply damage buffs to laser weapons) Magnetic Field Stabilisers (apply damage buffs to hybrid weapons) Gyrostabilizers (apply damage buffs to Projectile Weapons) Ballistic/ Payload Control Systems (apply damage to explosive weapons) All Passive lower % yield modules None of this active module bullshit. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 402	Posted - 2014.08.11 02:53:00 - [19] - Quote Meee One wrote: Dual tanking is popular because it's easy to do. It enables any suit to stack a nonracial defense. For example : Cal medium frame 210 shield 120 armor +1 enh plate =effective dual tank. I was thinking (while on my sudden vacation) what makes sense lore wise? Then it came to me,change stats to match lore. Please note:This would be applied to suit stats,not slots. Amarr:5%shield.95%armor The ultimate in brick tank,faith is the only shield they desire. Cal:95%shield,5% armor Given the bare minimal to survive,caldari suits stack thick shields to compensate.Would possibly require a regen amount boost of 5-15 S/PS Gal:30%shield,70%armor Focusing instead of straight brick tank, they instead focus on repairing their lower eHP reserves. Min:55% shield, 45% armor The most balanced of the four,preferring fast shield regen and speed over straight brick tank. These could be encouraged more with bonuses on the dropsuit unlock nodes. Amarr: Increased effectiveness of plates = more eHP per plates and less penalty/fitting Cal: Increased effectiveness of shield extenders and rechargers/energizers = more shield less penalty/fitting Gal: Increased effectiveness of repair modules/reactive plates = more repair less penalty /fitting Min: Increased effectiveness of biotics and regulators = more speed to regen their lower eHP and biotics to enabled better movement for their sacrifice. if you ** dual tanking yoru also effectivly ***** all shield tanking as armor tankers are OP as it stands and leaving highs open for damage mods while still running with tank is just sickening [LogiBro in Training] channel: BP SQUAD come join the fun
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2032	Posted - 2014.08.11 02:57:00 - [20] - Quote True Adamance wrote: ladwar wrote: Yes, damage mods to low slots even vehicles, i'll trade you all my star wars collectable cups 4 it And not just Damage modules. Weapon Type Modules. 1.Heat Sinks (apply damage buffs to laser weapons) 2.Magnetic Field Stabilisers (apply damage buffs to hybrid weapons) 3.Gyrostabilizers (apply damage buffs to Projectile Weapons) 4.Ballistic/ Payload Control Systems (apply damage to explosive weapons) All Passive lower % yield modules None of this active module bullshit. 1. Would reduce heat buildup 4 long fire, not damage. 2. Rof bonus not damage 3. accuracy while firing not damage 4. Rof bonus not damage Thats what they would actually do. So is that what you really want? Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?

Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 154	Posted - 2014.08.11 03:06:00 - [21] - Quote i think people dual tank (mostly on shield suits) because shield suits need both the high and the low slots to run a effective shield suit while armor tankers only need their lows to maximize effectiveness for their armor. So rather than going lvl 5 in regulators for instance they go 3 on 3 in the armor department. This is less of a SP sink with greater benefits survivability wise (in HP) In my opinion most armor suits in charlie will be running a effective armor setup and dmg mods while shield tankers need both the highs and the lows in order to maximize their shield set up. The consequence with that is not being able to fit dmg mods without significantly gimping their suits. I think you see a lot of dual tankers again People dual tank because of the HP game and because most people don't see the value of shield regulators and rather put a armor plate and a repper the low I'm really curious to see how this pans out in the shield vs armor effectiveness debate Let me state that this is not by any means QQ-ing because most standard replies result in such statements LOL.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12751	Posted - 2014.08.11 03:44:00 - [22] - Quote ladwar wrote: True Adamance wrote: ladwar wrote: Yes, damage mods to low slots even vehicles, i'll trade you all my star wars collectable cups 4 it And not just Damage modules. Weapon Type Modules. 1.Heat Sinks (apply damage buffs to laser weapons) 2.Magnetic Field Stabilisers (apply damage buffs to hybrid weapons) 3.Gyrostabilizers (apply damage buffs to Projectile Weapons) 4.Ballistic/ Payload Control Systems (apply damage to explosive weapons) All Passive lower % yield modules None of this active module bullshit. 1. Would reduce heat buildup 4 long fire, not damage. 2. Rof bonus not damage 3. accuracy while firing not damage 4. Rof bonus( also reload ) not damage Thats what they would actually do. So is that what you really want? What all of these modules fundamentally do is increase both RoF and Damage. However if necessary they can be modified to directly apply to a specific weapons systems functions. I was thinking more Passive modules, instead of actives. Leave active modules to things like Armour Repairers (Ancillary and Normal), Shield Boosters, Hardeners, Remote Transporters, Propulsion Modules, Scanners, Neuts, Nosferatu's (god willing these get to be in Legion) etc. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
The Eristic Dust 90210 604	Posted - 2014.08.11 04:46:00 - [23] - Quote There's been an HP obsession in Dust for as long as I can remember, and it'll be creeping up yet another notch with Charlie. It's incredibly tedious fighting waves of the same cookie-cutter, bricked-out fits every night. HP stacking needs to be checked via both improvements to utility mods (new ones, as above, would be nice, too!) and either outright increases in fitting costs for raw HP, a stacking penalty which increases fitting costs per mod that goes up per tier (ie, larger penalty for Cx mods than Basic) or frame-based penalties making them least practical and/or fittable on lights, most on heavies and in the middle on mediums. It should be worthwhile to fit a couple HP mods on most suits, but difficult to fit more without significantly compromising elsewhere. Overarching racial tank bonuses (which we ought to have anyway) could then be added to balance things out. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 989	Posted - 2014.08.11 05:02:00 - [24] - Quote People dual tank (and stack HP) because there's no effective difference in +HP on a module between suits. +50 shields is +50 shields. +100 shields is +100 shields. Eve solves this in a few ways. 1. +HP modules give a lot more HP but are also a lot harder to fit. For instance, only some battleships can double-plate up. 2. There exist +resist modules that encourage using your primary slot type for tanking (but also have stacking penalties so you don't go overboard) 3. There's a lot more choice of modules to fit, so there's a credible alternative to just adding EHP until you run out of slots. IMO, Dust could benefit from this style. Dust/Eve transfers
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7141	Posted - 2014.08.11 05:03:00 - [25] - Quote Shake it Shake it booty quake it see you space cowboy...
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 280	Posted - 2014.08.11 18:58:00 - [26] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: It's not that shields are that much better than shields though. A large problem is that idiots get a shield suit and want to use it like a brawling suit. You can't all be Gallente, I know, it's a hard reality to face but you guys simply aren't like us. Go play at range like the squid your are Or if you're Minmatar Run really fast and spam bullets like an idiot and hope you hit something. ok this shite is getting annoying, go play at range ... in my heavy suit? heavies with light weapons are scrubs and the main reason heavies are getting a cpu/pg nerf? so in my heavy suit with a long range weapon? only two heavy weapons? so then all caldari suits need to be forge gunners? only one choice? are you joking? (also something i never agreed with why are forge guns caldari when they seem to use rail tech as every type of weapon? this fires more like the gallente plc in my opinion)
Ace Starburst is well hung 111	Posted - 2014.08.11 19:07:00 - [27] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: It's not that shields are that much better than shields though. A large problem is that idiots get a shield suit and want to use it like a brawling suit. You can't all be Gallente, I know, it's a hard reality to face but you guys simply aren't like us. Go play at range like the squid your are Or if you're Minmatar Run really fast and spam bullets like an idiot and hope you hit something. ok this shite is getting annoying, go play at range ... in my heavy suit? heavies with light weapons are scrubs and the main reason heavies are getting a cpu/pg nerf? so in my heavy suit with a long range weapon? only two heavy weapons? so then all caldari suits need to be forge gunners? only one choice? are you joking? (also something i never agreed with why are forge guns caldari when they seem to use rail tech as every type of weapon? this fires more like the gallente plc in my opinion) Have you ever seen an actual rail gun fire? You don't want to be anywhere near where the projectile lands. The forge gun looks the part and has a plasma plume like modern variants.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 409	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:21:00 - [28] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: the problem is shield tanking is literally 1/2 as effective as armor.. and since people hate to die they stack the F out of BOTH.. if shield extenders were like.. 50->75->100 maybe it would be worth useing shield rechargers and regulators insted of plates. If you could have that much HP while also repairing at 80HP/s you would never die shields need no hp buff. 1 flux nade.. -1200+ shield then the downtime to wait for it to rep and its only scouts with 50+ hp/s on shields with out hitting shield hp.. remember it takes 1 high slot to increase REP AMOUNT while low slot for time taken to start repping after your shield takes a hit/depleated.. Learn the mechanics noobcake [LogiBro in Training] channel: BP SQUAD come join the fun
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 409	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:24:00 - [29] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: People dual tank (and stack HP) because there's no effective difference in +HP on a module between suits. +50 shields is +50 shields. +100 shields is +100 shields. Eve solves this in a few ways. 1. +HP modules give a lot more HP but are also a lot harder to fit. For instance, only some battleships can double-plate up. 2. There exist +resist modules that encourage using your primary slot type for tanking (but also have stacking penalties so you don't go overboard) 3. There's a lot more choice of modules to fit, so there's a credible alternative to just adding EHP until you run out of slots. IMO, Dust could benefit from this style. and this is what gave rise to the problem of rifle weilding sentinels like 2000ehp AND 25% dmg resist gives stupid longivity in combat [LogiBro in Training] channel: BP SQUAD come join the fun
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2003	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:25:00 - [30] - Quote The Scrubler Rifle is the reason peole dual tank shield suits...if you haven't ran a shield suit before, that weapon is literally killing you faster than an HMG at point blank. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11632	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:34:00 - [31] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The Scrubler Rifle is the reason peole dual tank shield suits...if you haven't ran a shield suit before, that weapon is literally killing you faster than an HMG at point blank. And yet it's incredibly uncommon because you might as well be throwing rocks against armor. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2004	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:43:00 - [32] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The Scrubler Rifle is the reason peole dual tank shield suits...if you haven't ran a shield suit before, that weapon is literally killing you faster than an HMG at point blank. And yet it's incredibly uncommon because you might as well be throwing rocks against armor. Trust me, IK. The charged shot from a viziam can one shot my proto min scout, but against armor tanked heavies, you can't kill them in any less than 2 overheats "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12774	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:47:00 - [33] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The Scrubler Rifle is the reason peole dual tank shield suits...if you haven't ran a shield suit before, that weapon is literally killing you faster than an HMG at point blank. And yet it's incredibly uncommon because you might as well be throwing rocks against armor. Trust me, IK. The charged shot from a viziam can one shot my proto min scout, but against armor tanked heavies, you can't kill them in any less than 2 overheats Its that really eye opening moment when you overheat and realise you just dun ****** yourself........ "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2037	Posted - 2014.08.15 01:05:00 - [34] - Quote Bump Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2037	Posted - 2014.08.15 01:11:00 - [35] - Quote True Adamance wrote: ladwar wrote: True Adamance wrote: ladwar wrote: Yes, damage mods to low slots even vehicles, i'll trade you all my star wars collectable cups 4 it And not just Damage modules. Weapon Type Modules. 1.Heat Sinks (apply damage buffs to laser weapons) 2.Magnetic Field Stabilisers (apply damage buffs to hybrid weapons) 3.Gyrostabilizers (apply damage buffs to Projectile Weapons) 4.Ballistic/ Payload Control Systems (apply damage to explosive weapons) All Passive lower % yield modules None of this active module bullshit. 1. Would reduce heat buildup 4 long fire, not damage. 2. Rof bonus not damage 3. accuracy while firing not damage 4. Rof bonus( also reload ) not damage Thats what they would actually do. So is that what you really want? What all of these modules fundamentally do is increase both RoF and Damage. However if necessary they can be modified to directly apply to a specific weapons systems functions. I was thinking more Passive modules, instead of actives. Leave active modules to things like Armour Repairers (Ancillary and Normal), Shield Boosters, Hardeners, Remote Transporters, Propulsion Modules, Scanners, Neuts, Nosferatu's (god willing these get to be in Legion) etc. You suck at basic understand of actual functionally. None of them would increase damage. Leave the names to people who understand them. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12902	Posted - 2014.08.15 01:15:00 - [36] - Quote ladwar wrote: True Adamance wrote: ladwar wrote: True Adamance wrote: ladwar wrote: Yes, damage mods to low slots even vehicles, i'll trade you all my star wars collectable cups 4 it And not just Damage modules. Weapon Type Modules. 1.Heat Sinks (apply damage buffs to laser weapons) 2.Magnetic Field Stabilisers (apply damage buffs to hybrid weapons) 3.Gyrostabilizers (apply damage buffs to Projectile Weapons) 4.Ballistic/ Payload Control Systems (apply damage to explosive weapons) All Passive lower % yield modules None of this active module bullshit. 1. Would reduce heat buildup 4 long fire, not damage. 2. Rof bonus not damage 3. accuracy while firing not damage 4. Rof bonus( also reload ) not damage Thats what they would actually do. So is that what you really want? What all of these modules fundamentally do is increase both RoF and Damage. However if necessary they can be modified to directly apply to a specific weapons systems functions. I was thinking more Passive modules, instead of actives. Leave active modules to things like Armour Repairers (Ancillary and Normal), Shield Boosters, Hardeners, Remote Transporters, Propulsion Modules, Scanners, Neuts, Nosferatu's (god willing these get to be in Legion) etc. You suck at basic understand of actual functionally. None of them would increase damage. Leave the names to people who understand them. These are items in the game....... I'm not interested in what these items do functionally..... only that they exist in game to break up the poorly named and over used Light Damage Module. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2038	Posted - 2014.08.16 02:14:00 - [37] - Quote Eve is not dust bro Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2038	Posted - 2014.08.16 02:16:00 - [38] - Quote Trolled* Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12917	Posted - 2014.08.16 03:01:00 - [39] - Quote ladwar wrote: Eve is not dust bro. And they still dont add damage, so they cant replace damage modules. They can simply take the place of damage modules for the specific weapon variants..... I suppose as you JUST said Dust ISNT EVE.... However everything does exist in the same universe and therefore the rules established by the more successful half of the franchise should translate to the less successful. Why the hell do people want to deny EVE in Dust..... Dust is a ******* balls up that doesn't vaguely resemble its better half. If it did more perhaps it would have been more successful. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11457	Posted - 2014.08.16 03:21:00 - [40] - Quote So I have 3 Options: Style 1: A suit with 700HP of Shields Style 2: A suit with 800HP of Armor Style 3: A suit with 400HP of Shields, and 400 HP of Armor Style 1 is weak to Laser and Hybrid - Blaster weaponry, Style 2 is weak to Explosive, Hybrid - Railgun, and Projectile Weaponry, and Style 3 is weak (and strong) to all of them. In order to dual tank, you have to use both your high and low slots, so you don't get the advantages that come with selecting 1 style of tank, which are: Shields Electronic Warfare Hacking Speed Lower Shield Delays Speed Stamina Armor Weapon Damage Scan Precision Melee Damage? Basically, a Dual Tanker has the advantage of Effective Hit Points, as they have an even amount of both Shields and Armor, allowing them to be strong (and weak) against all profiles. However, they also don't have the ability to use modules which improve attributes other than HP, such as Speed or Damage. How is this a problem exactly? DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND

ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2038	Posted - 2014.08.16 03:34:00 - [41] - Quote True Adamance wrote: ladwar wrote: Eve is not dust bro. And they still dont add damage, so they cant replace damage modules. They can simply take the place of damage modules for the specific weapon variants..... I suppose as you JUST said Dust ISNT EVE.... However everything does exist in the same universe and therefore the rules established by the more successful half of the franchise should translate to the less successful. Why the hell do people want to deny EVE in Dust..... Dust is a ******* balls up that doesn't vaguely resemble its better half. If it did more perhaps it would have been more successful. You cant say they are in the game when they are only in eve. There is no real reason for dust mercs to about anything in eve as it has zero effect in dust and dust barely effects eve at all. There is no connection so its not the same universe. All it has a has is a similar but with wild differences methodology. And you want them to not work as they are meant to in the eve way. You should see that your argument holds no water and admit your wrong now. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 3172	Posted - 2014.08.16 04:34:00 - [42] - Quote ladwar wrote: True Adamance wrote: ladwar wrote: Eve is not dust bro. And they still dont add damage, so they cant replace damage modules. They can simply take the place of damage modules for the specific weapon variants..... I suppose as you JUST said Dust ISNT EVE.... However everything does exist in the same universe and therefore the rules established by the more successful half of the franchise should translate to the less successful. Why the hell do people want to deny EVE in Dust..... Dust is a ******* balls up that doesn't vaguely resemble its better half. If it did more perhaps it would have been more successful. You cant say they are in the game when they are only in eve. There is no real reason for dust mercs to about anything in eve as it has zero effect in dust and dust barely effects eve at all. There is no connection so its not the same universe. All it has a has is a similar but with wild differences methodology. And you want them to not work as they are meant to in the eve way. You should see that your argument holds no water and admit your wrong now. That's not the point he was making though, that's like saying this milk you got yesterday from the store is fine when someone points out that some leftovers that were sitting in the fridge for a month are starting to grow mold. Member of a Dead Alliance and Dead Corp Coming through, still better than you FOTM corp hopping whores
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12918	Posted - 2014.08.16 08:07:00 - [43] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: ladwar wrote: True Adamance wrote: ladwar wrote: Eve is not dust bro. And they still dont add damage, so they cant replace damage modules. They can simply take the place of damage modules for the specific weapon variants..... I suppose as you JUST said Dust ISNT EVE.... However everything does exist in the same universe and therefore the rules established by the more successful half of the franchise should translate to the less successful. Why the hell do people want to deny EVE in Dust..... Dust is a ******* balls up that doesn't vaguely resemble its better half. If it did more perhaps it would have been more successful. You cant say they are in the game when they are only in eve. There is no real reason for dust mercs to about anything in eve as it has zero effect in dust and dust barely effects eve at all. There is no connection so its not the same universe. All it has a has is a similar but with wild differences methodology. And you want them to not work as they are meant to in the eve way. You should see that your argument holds no water and admit your wrong now. That's not the point he was making though, that's like saying this milk you got yesterday from the store is fine when someone points out that some leftovers that were sitting in the fridge for a month are starting to grow mold. And Lad that is why Dust/ Legion will never succeed. You don't care about EVE and EVE players don't care about us. When you have that attitude there is essentially no point in linking the games, and with no reason to link an FPS to EVE Legions purpose and reason for financial investment ceases to exist "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 3173	Posted - 2014.08.16 08:26:00 - [44] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Killar-12 wrote: ladwar wrote: True Adamance wrote: ladwar wrote: Eve is not dust bro. And they still dont add damage, so they cant replace damage modules. They can simply take the place of damage modules for the specific weapon variants..... I suppose as you JUST said Dust ISNT EVE.... However everything does exist in the same universe and therefore the rules established by the more successful half of the franchise should translate to the less successful. Why the hell do people want to deny EVE in Dust..... Dust is a ******* balls up that doesn't vaguely resemble its better half. If it did more perhaps it would have been more successful. You cant say they are in the game when they are only in eve. There is no real reason for dust mercs to about anything in eve as it has zero effect in dust and dust barely effects eve at all. There is no connection so its not the same universe. All it has a has is a similar but with wild differences methodology. And you want them to not work as they are meant to in the eve way. You should see that your argument holds no water and admit your wrong now. That's not the point he was making though, that's like saying this milk you got yesterday from the store is fine when someone points out that some leftovers that were sitting in the fridge for a month are starting to grow mold. And Lad that is why Dust/ Legion will never succeed. You don't care about EVE and EVE players don't care about us. When you have that attitude there is essentially no point in linking the games, and with no reason to link an FPS to EVE Legions purpose and reason for financial investment ceases to exist Agreed Member of a Dead Alliance and Dead Corp Coming through, still better than you FOTM corp hopping whores
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2141	Posted - 2014.08.16 08:29:00 - [45] - Quote Most of the EVE hatred for DUST began when CCP abandoned the carbon engine game they were developing for PCs for the PS3. Had more to do with not wanting their stuff screwed up by a buncha mouthy, prickish console kiddies who have historically proven themselves more obnoxious than most EVE players attribute to Goonswarm, TEST and BoB combined. It wasnt the game. It was the gamer culture the platform invites.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 3173	Posted - 2014.08.16 08:42:00 - [46] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Most of the EVE hatred for DUST began when CCP abandoned the carbon engine game they were developing for PCs for the PS3. Had more to do with not wanting their stuff screwed up by a buncha mouthy, prickish console kiddies who have historically proven themselves more obnoxious than most EVE players attribute to Goonswarm, TEST and BoB combined. It wasnt the game. It was the gamer culture the platform invites. I hope so... I hope so. Member of a Dead Alliance and Dead Corp Coming through, still better than you FOTM corp hopping whores
iKILLu osborne Dead Man's Game 163	Posted - 2014.08.16 12:00:00 - [47] - Quote every pc gamer is full of crap when they say they didn't play mario as a kid, lol you seem to forget pc gaming stemmed from consoles/arcade machines. now the nature of console players are what you would call "casual" but in my eyes that is a good thing because we play games that are enjoyable at our own schedule. While pc gamers mentality is "hardcore" believing everything that is sought after must be earned through devotion and time invested. Which i agree with 100%. Thus dust being developed with a "pc mentality" on a console platform is why it failed because console players lacked the devotion to commit to the game, and eve players was not willing to invest their time and money on a ps3 that they knew would soon be discontinued and dust offered no true advantages to their eve character. Had it been developed with a "console mentality" it would have attracted more console players and if would have offered an eve side reward/benefit it would have attracted more eve players. "uh guys" "i got to go back to the depot that installation made me crap my dropsuit"
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6485	Posted - 2014.08.16 18:23:00 - [48] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: the problem is shield tanking is literally 1/2 as effective as armor.. and since people hate to die they stack the F out of BOTH.. if shield extenders were like.. 50->75->100 maybe it would be worth useing shield rechargers and regulators insted of plates. If you could have that much HP while also repairing at 80HP/s you would never die shields need no hp buff. People who ask for more shields are just armor tankers in denial. I love my Min Assault with 450 shields. I sprint at 8.77 and have 2-3 second delay and depleted times along with 40 some odd regen. Take damage, run away regen and come back. It's hit and run, not stand and deliver. FA's Stabber Extraordinaire Minmatar Enthusiast Explosions and Bulletstorm? Count me in!
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 200	Posted - 2014.08.16 18:50:00 - [49] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: the problem is shield tanking is literally 1/2 as effective as armor.. and since people hate to die they stack the F out of BOTH.. if shield extenders were like.. 50->75->100 maybe it would be worth useing shield rechargers and regulators insted of plates. If you could have that much HP while also repairing at 80HP/s you would never die shields need no hp buff. People who ask for more shields are just armor tankers in denial. I love my Min Assault with 450 shields. I sprint at 8.77 and have 2-3 second delay and depleted times along with 40 some odd regen. Take damage, run away regen and come back. It's hit and run, not stand and deliver. But you're a scrub Ghost lol. You're right regen and speed > total shield hp. All extenders do is hinder your delay. I put 3 max on my suits.
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2044	Posted - 2014.08.16 21:22:00 - [50] - Quote True you know i would like there to a real dust-eve connection but pretending that they will finally do it and give a reason to work with pilot is a hopeless pipe dream. It should be clear by now they refuse to make eve part of dust. You have more chance of legion having a real connection to eve. Stop living in that pipe dream Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3308	Posted - 2014.08.17 00:10:00 - [51] - Quote Their is nothing wrong with dual tanking (except brick tanking) For every plate a caldari fits, thats as much as 1.5 seconds longer on his shield delay he has to endure. For every extender a gallante fits, that's a 7% weapon damage boost he is missing out on. The difference now is even if a suit dual tanks he's hampering his main tank significantly. And the new assault layouts make dual tanking a very concious choice and kmpacting choice. I dual tank, 330 Shields, 280 Armour on my Assault suit that's less than your average eHP what exactly is the problem with it? Or is it simply that your bitter a Minmatar survived you scrambler because he put a little armour on too? They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 995	Posted - 2014.08.18 07:56:00 - [52] - Quote Or as an alternative... How about tanking affinities? For example: Stacking extenders cuts the costs of both by HALF,and increases the shield provided of both by 1/2 ,while decreasing the delay of both by 1/2 If i have 2 extenders,the costs (fitting/penalties) equal only one,and i get extra tank.. But if i put a plate on,the affinity is removed. If i put a regulator on the affinity stays. Regulators and rep modules would be the same,as well as plating. Pure rep modules and regulators would negate affinities for the opposite tank. Stacking extenders then putting a rep module on would negate affinities for shields,and vice versa. Plating affinity wouldn't be effected by rep modules,but it wouldn't benefit it either. With this arrangement pure tankers would benefit much more than split tankers. Bricks would be brickier,shields would be more robust and charge faster,reps could reach insane lvs at the cost of plating. This would apply to everything but reactives,because lets be honest....with fluxes being spammed so readily even shield tankers would need even a few armor reps. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
George Moros RestlessSpirits 406	Posted - 2014.08.18 11:21:00 - [53] - Quote Here's my take on the subject: First of all, I agree that dual tanking should be discouraged. Not impossible, but discouraged. Second, of all the proposals I've read here not one contains a viable solution that would prevent dual tanking. For example, no matter how you redistribute initial shield/armor ratio of dropsuits, there's still no reason why someone wouldn't stack plates on a dropsuit that initially has only 50-ish armor (or vice versa in case of shields). Also, if you give role/dropsuit fitting bonuses to shield/armor modules, there's still no reason why someone couldn't put both kind for that extra EHP they'll get. In EVE dual tanking is possible, but rarely seen in practice (in fact, almost never - any dual tanked fit is considered as noob and/or fail fit). It is however, not an extreme rarity to see (as True Adamance linked a battleclinic Harbinger example) a ship that is using a shield tank although it is nominally an armor tanker. But, as a rule of thumb, majority of ships are either shield or armor tanked, and in 95% of the cases their tank type corresponds to their racial lore. The reason for this is quite simple - in EVE there are useful modules to be put both in mid (equivalent of DUST's high slots) and low slots, besides tank. Damage mods (which in EVE go to low slots), are mandatory for any PvP fit that actually shoots at the enemy (i.e. most of them). And they are mandatory because they give a much more significant bonus than a mere 5/7/8% current proto variants do. If you don't fit them, you'll see a significant difference in your performance. Also, there are modules that go to mid slots that are also mandatory for any viable PvP fit - propulsion modules, warp scramblers and, to some extent, stasis webifiers. These are, in most cases not optional, but mandatory for any PvP fleet. So, even if you're flying a completely "common" PvP ship (meaning, not some specialized role such as logi or ewar), you'll still need at least two mid and two low slots in your fit which are not tank modules. If you compare this to DUST, you'll see that the only dropsuits that commonly fit modules other than tank (except for maybe damage mods) are scouts. And even that is correct only if the player is actually playing the scout as a scout, and not merely a "assault with a cloak". There is also one other factor that contributes to EVE's single tank philosophy, and it is the ability to increase resists of your shield and/or armor. A usual PvP fit ship will increase his damage resistances to at least 60-70% for all damage types. If you do this for armor, then stacking an armor plate of 1000 HP will actually give you cca 3000 more effective HP. If you then stack a 1000 HP shield extender without boosting your resistances, you'll get only a fraction of that amount, making the investment in CPU/PG far less effective than for the armor plate. Combine this with the fact that there are actually other useful modules to be put in the place of that shield extender, and the choice is rather obvious - you'll either shield or armor tank, but never both. To illustrate, I'll link the above mentioned first Harbinger fit . Again, high slots correspond to DUST's weapons and equipment, medium slots are DUST's high slots, lows are the same. In mediums, he uses all 4 slots on non-tank modules (propulsion, warp scrambler, webifier, capacitor management). Of the 6 low slots, 2 are for damage mods, 4 are armor tank. This is a typical Harbinger PvP fit "as it should be done". The second one illustrates that EVE's mechanics still provide room for improvisation and innovation, without making the fit unusable, just somewhat specific. In this fit, Harbinger is shield tanked, with 3 modules used for tank, and only one for other stuff (propulsion). The sacrifice being made here is that the ship has no means of preventing it's target from escaping, and has to rely on fleet mates to do the job. However, this is compensated by stacking 4 damage mods, which makes it a DPS monster. So, to conclude, if you want to prevent dual tanking in DUST, you have got to have useful non-tanking modules to fit. And not just useful to some specific roles, but useful to (almost) anyone. This is by far the most important thing to have. Only if you have that, can other aspects be considered to further make dual tanking not viable, such as racial bonuses to resists or plate effectiveness, or whatnot. This turned out to be quite a wall of text, so my apologies. :) Pulvereus ergo queritor.
George Moros RestlessSpirits 406	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:07:00 - [54] - Quote On second thought, maybe there is a way to prevent dual tanking in DUST without making other modules useful (meaning, more useful than they currently are). However, this would require for DUST to abandon some design concepts that mimic EVE both in mechanics and lore (which is kind of weird, since I actually like how EVE works in that respect). OK, here's the thing: All tanking modules (both shield and armor) go to the same slot type (either high or low, completely irrelevant at this level). Now, if you want to make a certain dropsuit "biased" toward shield or armor tank (depending on role / race / whatever), simply put a fitting and/or effectiveness dropsuit skill bonus to that dropsuit toward those module types. All other modules would then go to the other slot type. This would be the most straightforward method of "forcing" players to use only one type of tank I can think of. The price for this would be to abandon the EVE based racial tilt in high / low slot ratio, and make the ratio entirely role based. For example, sentinels would have more tank slots and fewer "other" slots, while scouts would have the opposite. Assaults could be somewhere in the middle. You get the idea. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 995	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:27:00 - [55] - Quote George Moros wrote: On second thought, maybe there is a way to prevent dual tanking in DUST without making other modules useful (meaning, more useful than they currently are). However, this would require for DUST to abandon some design concepts that mimic EVE both in mechanics and lore (which is kind of weird, since I actually like how EVE works in that respect). OK, here's the thing: All tanking modules (both shield and armor) go to the same slot type (either high or low, completely irrelevant at this level). Now, if you want to make a certain dropsuit "biased" toward shield or armor tank (depending on role / race / whatever), simply put a fitting and/or effectiveness dropsuit skill bonus to that dropsuit toward those tank module types. All other modules would then go to the other slot type. This would be the most straightforward method of "forcing" players to use only one type of tank I can think of. The price for this would be to abandon the EVE based racial tilt in high / low slot ratio, and make the ratio entirely role based. For example, sentinels would have more tank slots and fewer "other" slots, while scouts would have the opposite. Assaults could be somewhere in the middle. You get the idea. Slight problem with that idea... Armor takes 2 slots -Plate -Reps Shields take 3 -Extender -Recharger/energizer -Regulator And shields cost a butt load of CPU/PG to run purely,all lost to a single basic flux grenade. If your armor goes you're dead. But if your shield goes you can still fight. Armor is 10x easier to fit,lasts 10x longer,and as the last line of defense it's 100x more important. The penalty to speed plates give is negligible,because it doesn't hinder repair rate or armor tank in any way. Extenders on the other hand buff and gimp shields at the same time. If plates added a negative repair rate,or hindered repair rate then it would be semi equal. But i'd say the main problem is grenades,reduce flux effectiveness and it wouldn't 1 shot 800 shield tanked sentinels. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
George Moros RestlessSpirits 406	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:48:00 - [56] - Quote Meee One wrote: Slight problem with that idea... Armor takes 2 slots -Plate -Reps Shields take 3 -Extender -Recharger/energizer -Regulator And shields cost a butt load of CPU/PG to run purely,all lost to a single basic flux grenade. If your armor goes you're dead. But if your shield goes you can still fight. Armor is 10x easier to fit,lasts 10x longer,and as the last line of defense it's 100x more important. The penalty to speed plates give is negligible,because it doesn't hinder repair rate or armor tank in any way. Extenders on the other hand buff and gimp shields at the same time. If plates added a negative repair rate,or hindered repair rate then it would be semi equal. But i'd say the main problem is grenades,reduce flux effectiveness and it wouldn't 1 shot 800 shield tanked sentinels. I understand what you mean, but your remarks have more to do with shield vs armor balance than with the issue of putting them all in the same slot type. Also, I wasn't suggesting that (for example) Caldari dropsuits should have zero armor as inital value. If you lose your shields, you'll still have (some) armor left. Finally, in the model I proposed, there's absolutely nothing that specifically prevents you from fitting armor plates to a Caldari dropsuit, if you think that it would be prudent to do so. In fact, you could probably fit more plates in this proposed model than you can now, providing that you forego the built-in bonus to shield tank the Caldari dropsuit would have. But it's not just that... think of the other issues you could solve by implementing this. One of the most whined about issues currently is the brick tanked slayer-scout. If you give scouts just one (2 at best) "tank slot", you will solve the issue immediately. Pulvereus ergo queritor.


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