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Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:

SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote:

each variant as 15% more of PG/CPU.
Basically The Best Surya fit is:

3x Complex Reps
2x Complex Hardeners
2x Complex Blaster DMG Mod
1x Complex Fuel Injector
80J ION CANNON

This Should work

PS: This is not OP, if you see you can almost rep at 350 with MAXED Rep Skill, including 5x Reps is not a good idea because you get nearby 500, the total of 1.7 witch grants you dead for sure.

So basically you need 2-3 forge or Lai Dai spam, thats all, see? is not OP it just more defended.
At least TANKVTANK you only need 2 falchions with XT-201 to take him down.

Cool heh? let me know Smile

EDIT: The total Surya HP are: 1587 5290 SHIELD/ARMOR
PG/CPU ASSETS are: 627 3326
5x Reps won't work so keep it in mind.

Here is a chart showing that build vs different swarms assuming the hardeners are run one after the other

Here is the same chart but assuming both hardeners are on at the same time.

Same again for forge guns, single hardener

and finally 2x hardeners on at the same time.

In all cases there is enough time for 3 reps. this is the usual space between hits based on actual gameplay. As you can see. Indestructible. 3 reps and 2 hardeners on one tank is extremely OP.

Look at this! Thats 3 proto forges all hitting you at the same time and it takes 5 hits by 3 guys at the same time to kill you.

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SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo 253	Posted - 2014.08.06 09:43:00 - [1] - Quote You Never respond to constructive Discussions for the tanker role, Whenever i open a spreadsheet or a feedback, you don't say a ***** word to that. You are a disgrace, seriously. This is a flame post yes. You ruined the tanker role since 1.7. I was glad to run an enforcer with the fear inside for AV, thats what i call a REAL tanker. You just screwed the variations with New updates Saying "temporally Removed for Rework", Well YOU ARE NOT WORKING ON THEM SINCE CODEX. WE WANT THE OLD TANKS WITH SHIELD REBALANCE, I DON'T REQUEST NOTHING OF SPECIAL. Bring back the old modules with the old HAV Variations instead & turret variations. CCP Rattati & CCP Logibro: Are your Eyes broken? tried to poke you from every possible mode, You never respond. I DON'T GIVE A ** ABOUT HOTFIXES, DO YOU WANT TO FIX THE TANKS? REDO 1.6 WITH OVERALL CLASS & SHIELD REBALANCE. STOP Saying soonTM because i had enough with your false promises. Dust 514= True Fps
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2609	Posted - 2014.08.06 09:52:00 - [2] - Quote Stop liking yourself with your alts and maybe someone will take you seriously. BTW, i must agree with certain points, in a large part, tanks were more engaging and various to play before 1.7. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" Uncesored FUCK
SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo 253	Posted - 2014.08.06 09:58:00 - [3] - Quote shaman oga wrote: i must agree with certain points, in a large part, tanks were more engaging and various to play before 1.7. Yes absolutely constructive! But what i see now is: armor hardener, armor rep, OVER -_- jesus CCP wake up CCP Gives Us Tanks Variations
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2641	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:00:00 - [4] - Quote SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote: each variant as 15% more of PG/CPU. Basically The Best Surya fit is: 3x Complex Reps 2x Complex Hardeners 2x Complex Blaster DMG Mod 1x Complex Fuel Injector 80J ION CANNON This Should work PS: This is not OP, if you see you can almost rep at 350 with MAXED Rep Skill, including 5x Reps is not a good idea because you get nearby 500, the total of 1.7 witch grants you dead for sure. So basically you need 2-3 forge or Lai Dai spam, thats all, see? is not OP it just more defended. At least TANKVTANK you only need 2 falchions with XT-201 to take him down. Cool heh? let me know EDIT: The total Surya HP are: 1587 5290 SHIELD/ARMOR PG/CPU ASSETS are: 627 3326 5x Reps won't work so keep it in mind. Here is a chart showing that build vs different swarms assuming the hardeners are run one after the other Here is the same chart but assuming both hardeners are on at the same time. Same again for forge guns, single hardener and finally 2x hardeners on at the same time. In all cases there is enough time for 3 reps. this is the usual space between hits based on actual gameplay. As you can see. Indestructible. 3 reps and 2 hardeners on one tank is extremely OP. Look at this. Thats 3 proto forges all hitting you at the same time and it takes 3 hits by 3 guys at the same time to kill you. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Chunky Munkey 5106	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:06:00 - [5] - Quote U mad bro? Destiny won't kill Dust. CCP already did that.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo 257	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:09:00 - [6] - Quote I'm sure everyone will hate me for this... But I would still like to see dps on large turrets dropped... So tank battles actually took longer and hardeners weren't such an easy mode win... Though this would be a "nerf" so everyone will say no. I just want more fun is all... Would also need to do something about that pesky dropship rof bonus, it's easy enough to kill a tank (or anything else, except maybe other dropships, which you would then do better with multiple turrets) without it. Lower rate of fire on large turrets would also make the idea of "more tanky" tanks less over powered and mildly viable.
SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo 259	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:14:00 - [7] - Quote IS OP WHAT? GOD ***** COW do you want to kill a marauder with 1 swarm? HOLY MAN! Im out of this Never gonna speak with cpm again, seriously! You don't want bring the tank variants, because all ideas are OP For you. YOU CCP KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU WILL GO TO HELL. LISTENING CRYBABIES THAT WANTS TO FACE A TANK WITH A SINGLE FORGE. GET THE OUT. Thats what i have to gain after 3 years, a STD Tank. ** YOU CCP! I hope you see this post CCP Gives Us Tanks Variations
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2642	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:17:00 - [8] - Quote how many swarms then. i can chart that for you. The results are the same though. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
DontChimpOut Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:18:00 - [9] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote: each variant as 15% more of PG/CPU. Basically The Best Surya fit is: 3x Complex Reps 2x Complex Hardeners 2x Complex Blaster DMG Mod 1x Complex Fuel Injector 80J ION CANNON This Should work PS: This is not OP, if you see you can almost rep at 350 with MAXED Rep Skill, including 5x Reps is not a good idea because you get nearby 500, the total of 1.7 witch grants you dead for sure. So basically you need 2-3 forge or Lai Dai spam, thats all, see? is not OP it just more defended. At least TANKVTANK you only need 2 falchions with XT-201 to take him down. Cool heh? let me know EDIT: The total Surya HP are: 1587 5290 SHIELD/ARMOR PG/CPU ASSETS are: 627 3326 5x Reps won't work so keep it in mind. Here is a chart showing that build vs different swarms assuming the hardeners are run one after the other Here is the same chart but assuming both hardeners are on at the same time. Same again for forge guns, single hardener and finally 2x hardeners on at the same time. In all cases there is enough time for 3 reps. this is the usual space between hits based on actual gameplay. As you can see. Indestructible. 3 reps and 2 hardeners on one tank is extremely OP. Look at this! Thats 3 proto forges all hitting you at the same time and it takes 5 hits by 3 guys at the same time to kill you. Here comes CCP's chosen one. If you don't agree with him, you'll be banned.
SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo 260	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:19:00 - [10] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: how many swarms then. i can chart that for you. The results are the same though. I Said at least 3 forges, trust me ok? i know what i do Don't say OP THIS OP THIS ONE ok? They are stats that i tested. CCP Gives Us Tanks Variations

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2642	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:21:00 - [11] - Quote SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: how many swarms then. i can chart that for you. The results are the same though. I Said at least 3 forges, trust me ok? i know what i do Don't say OP THIS OP THIS ONE ok? They are stats that i tested. I charted 3 forge guns for you in my post. 3 proto forges hitting at the same time (no damage mods, lowest skill level) and its 5 HTK. that is OP. Anyone think it isn't? I'm happy to hear otherwise. Look at it this way. to kill two of your fits on the field, to counter your two players in tanks we need 6 players with proto forge guns. That cannot lead to a balanced match. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
ThePlayerkyle13 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 131	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:22:00 - [12] - Quote Inb4ThreadLockedByLogiBro But in all seriousness, i completely agree with you, i like the vehicles before 1.7, their was soo much variation between choosing a Logistics Vehicle or Enforcer, plus each one was unique from each other. CCP obviously shot themselves in the foot here...
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2642	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:23:00 - [13] - Quote ThePlayerkyle13 wrote: Inb4ThreadLockedByLogiBro But in all seriousness, i completely agree with you, i like the vehicles before 1.7, their was soo much variation between choosing a Logistics Vehicle or Enforcer, plus each one was unique from each other. CCP obviously shot themselves in the foot here... I agree with variation, and the OP on adding it back. not that fit though. And not those stats. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Toby Flenderson research lab 560	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:23:00 - [14] - Quote It's just a game.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 720	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:24:00 - [15] - Quote i agree weneedthe other tanks, modules, and turret variants to actually use them so we can find balance or provide feedback to find balance for a hotfix, just taking them out will never get them reworked in a balanced manner especially since ccp are a bunch of fools with the exclusion of a few people who shall remain unnamed.
Freccia di Lybra Maphia Clan Corporation 221	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:25:00 - [16] - Quote SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote: IS OP WHAT? GOD ***** COW do you want to kill a marauder with 1 swarm? HOLY MAN! Im out of this Never gonna speak with cpm again, seriously! You don't want bring the tank variants, because all ideas are OP For you. YOU CCP KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU WILL GO TO HELL. LISTENING CRYBABIES THAT WANTS TO FACE A TANK WITH A SINGLE FORGE. GET THE OUT. Thats what i have to gain after 3 years, a STD Tank. ** YOU CCP! I hope you see this post would you rather see the same exact tank, black colored and with a PRO tag on it? because I don't see any other way to fix tanks actually. Ei fu, xxwhitedevilxx former Co-CEO Maphia Clan Corporation / Unit Unicorn
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 720	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:26:00 - [17] - Quote Toby Flenderson wrote: It's just a game. umm eve is real, and dust is eve, so dust is real also.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1782	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:26:00 - [18] - Quote Hilariously I used to solo marauders. There has been no patch iteration where I have failed to gank at least one tank per day since chromosome. Solo. It has always been doable. Now swarms are theoretically getting a boost. Soloing tanks is doable already. It does not need to become easier. Current balance seems pretty tight with the tank drivers being able to usually escape solo AV unless they are stupid (or the AV gunner is brilliant) while getting utterly annihilated when they drive into three AV gunners. And your sense of personal entitlement is hilarious. I been here since beta. Doesnt make rattati more likely to respond. The devs are within their rights to disagree with and not bother with your stuff which might be outside the purview of intended design.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3624	Posted - 2014.08.06 12:59:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Hilariously I used to solo marauders. There has been no patch iteration where I have failed to gank at least one tank per day since chromosome. Solo. It has always been doable. Now swarms are theoretically getting a boost. Soloing tanks is doable already. It does not need to become easier. Current balance seems pretty tight with the tank drivers being able to usually escape solo AV unless they are stupid (or the AV gunner is brilliant) while getting utterly annihilated when they drive into three AV gunners. Just to keep things clear, Pro swarms are getting nerfed ever-so-slightly. Std / Adv variants aren't even worth using at the moment, and I expect they'll continue to blow post buff. We'll see how it plays out, but I'm planning on retiring my Pro(5) Swarms for awhile. Better off not firing swarms at an ADS. Better off running REs + Flux or AV grenades against a tank. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
DontChimpOut Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2014.08.06 13:03:00 - [20] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: how many swarms then. i can chart that for you. The results are the same though. I Said at least 3 forges, trust me ok? i know what i do Don't say OP THIS OP THIS ONE ok? They are stats that i tested. I charted 3 forge guns for you in my post. 3 proto forges hitting at the same time (no damage mods, lowest skill level) and its 5 HTK. that is OP. Anyone think it isn't? I'm happy to hear otherwise. Look at it this way. to kill two of your fits on the field, to counter your two players in tanks we need 6 players with proto forge guns. That cannot lead to a balanced match. Lol Kalaakiota instead of Ishukone or Wiyrkomi. Way to not use the best gear possible to make your case easier.

Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 105	Posted - 2014.08.06 13:04:00 - [21] - Quote SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote: IS OP WHAT? GOD ***** COW do you want to kill a marauder with 1 swarm? HOLY MAN! Im out of this Never gonna speak with cpm again, seriously! You don't want bring the tank variants, because all ideas are OP For you. YOU CCP KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU WILL GO TO HELL. LISTENING CRYBABIES THAT WANTS TO FACE A TANK WITH A SINGLE FORGE. GET THE OUT. Thats what i have to gain after 3 years, a STD Tank. ** YOU CCP! I hope you see this post Who's crying here? just wanted to point this out.. carry on
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2650	Posted - 2014.08.06 13:29:00 - [22] - Quote DontChimpOut wrote: Lol Kalaakiota instead of Ishukone or Wiyrkomi. Way to not use the best gear possible to make your case easier. The difference in damage is 60hp a shot between them. the results are exactly the same. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Seymor Krelborn Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2441	Posted - 2014.08.06 13:32:00 - [23] - Quote SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote: You Never respond to constructive Discussions for the tanker role, Whenever i open a spreadsheet or a feedback, you don't say a ***** word to that. You are a disgrace, seriously. This is a flame post yes. You ruined the tanker role since 1.7. I was glad to run an enforcer with the fear inside for AV, thats what i call a REAL tanker. You just screwed the variations with New updates Saying "temporally Removed for Rework", Well YOU ARE NOT WORKING ON THEM SINCE CODEX. WE WANT THE OLD TANKS WITH SHIELD REBALANCE, I DON'T REQUEST NOTHING OF SPECIAL. Bring back the old modules with the old HAV Variations instead & turret variations. CCP Rattati & CCP Logibro: Are your Eyes broken? tried to poke you from every possible mode, You never respond. I DON'T GIVE A ** ABOUT HOTFIXES, DO YOU WANT TO FIX THE TANKS? REDO 1.6 WITH OVERALL CLASS & SHIELD REBALANCE. STOP Saying soonTM because i had enough with your false promises. dude, just quit the game... seriously is it worth the frustration? is ccp worth the frustration? no...no they aren't. this game makes me sad....
jenza aranda BetaMax. 3475	Posted - 2014.08.06 14:13:00 - [24] - Quote SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote: STOP Saying soonTM because i had enough with your false promises. SoonGäó Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 310	Posted - 2014.08.06 14:18:00 - [25] - Quote As much as I would like more tank variation, i'd rather see the minmitar and amarr racial tanks than more gallente and caldari types reintroduced. But more importantly, given CCPs track record with the introduction of gear, I am very worried about them actually adding anything vehicle wise. For the first time, imo, since uprising tanks are well balanced. Even a triple rep madrugar is vulnerable if you exploit their lack of extra armor/hardeners for a coordinated insta gib with wyrkrimoni forge or RE+ PLC/av/flux popping. If anything changes right now we run the risk of upsetting the av/tank balance again.
Zindorak 1.U.P 254	Posted - 2014.08.06 15:44:00 - [26] - Quote One thing that would be good to add is to nerf tank speed so you can't run of like the cowards you are Pokemon master
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1021	Posted - 2014.08.06 17:35:00 - [27] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: how many swarms then. i can chart that for you? How many forges? The results are the same though. Also LOOK at the 3 prototype forges against that fit. 5 hits to kill. Ask anyone else here if they think that fit is OP or UP. im just not seeing it working at all. You can rep 1000 armour between hits AND you can be double hardened. I am so glad that I see that tag near your name , it's well deserved . I see that your right on it today which is also good but I think that he's looking for some help in having those variations back but at the pace of the current vehicles in balance , like maybe a HP increase and slot taken away or something as to not have this exchange of those vehicles being OP in any way . Maybe he's looking to start a dialogue so that if they were to return , they won't break the already fragile state of vehicles V.S. anti-vehicle and vise versa . I believe that he's looking for some input as to solve that problem and then the reimplementation of those variants but with the necessary changes so that they will not become OP . I don't think that he's looking for the same vehicles brought back in the same state as they were previously , I believe that he's trying to bring this to the table for discussion . I think that again , after delta that maybe they will take a look at that and many other issues but it just seems that their main concern now is to balance the infantry experience and that's fine with me .. for now . Maybe after he calms down that we could turn this post into that exact discussion and with your help Judge ( Along with any other CPM , DEV or anyone else in the community who has vehicle experience ) , it should be a great discussion . Best of wishes to you Judge . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 311	Posted - 2014.08.06 17:38:00 - [28] - Quote As far as variations go a simple one would be to base them around speed. Make Fast moving vehicles with lower ehp. Make slow moving vehicles with higher ehp. As long as the fast moving are fast enough to still be useful with low ehp and as long as the slow moving vehicles are slow enough as to not be able to avoid a concentrated volley things would be balanced. If you want balance, you have to trade things to gain other things. That's what Tiericide was about. It's is like the variance in weapons.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2662	Posted - 2014.08.06 17:59:00 - [29] - Quote I'm a pretty hardcore tanker in PC, so coming from that perspective, CCP isn't responding to your idea because it's a bad one. As Judge pointed out, it's horrifically overpowered. Just because you WANT to have something, does not mean that you SHOULD have it. When tanks were reworked, they modules were designed around the fact that there were limited slots available. Adding additional slots but keeping the modules the same completely screws over that intended balance. Now if you wanted to add some highs and remove some lows or vice versa (Variants) that's one thing, but straight up adding more slots without any sacrifice at all is going to cause an excessive number of issues. So don't complain when CCP thinks your idea is a bad one and then get pissed about it.
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 614	Posted - 2014.08.06 19:47:00 - [30] - Quote SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote: IS OP WHAT? GOD ***** COW do you want to kill a marauder with 1 swarm? HOLY MAN! Im out of this Never gonna speak with cpm again, seriously! You don't want bring the tank variants, because all ideas are OP For you. YOU CCP KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU WILL GO TO HELL. LISTENING CRYBABIES THAT WANTS TO FACE A TANK WITH A SINGLE FORGE. GET THE OUT. Thats what i have to gain after 3 years, a STD Tank. YOU CCP! I hope you see this post Someone forgot to eat a snickers... Need a hug? Still *** up your tanks though. 1 forge, 1 person, damage mods, sprinkle some AV grenades, add in some enemy tankers and that's all I need for a good time Also it hasn't been 3 years.. Why do people keep thinking that? When you wish upon a star... No one gives 2 fucks who you are~~. Anything your heart desires, will never come to you... If your heart is in a tank, no infantry will be the same, If you steal all of my kills as *** tankers do. Fate is kind, She brings to those who AV, The sweet fullfilment of, their tanker hatred~~~. Like a bolt out of the blue my forge steps and sees that you are through~~ When you wish upon a star, your tank is through!~~ (Play the song "when you wish upon a star" and switch the lyrics with those that are above, sounds pretty nice if you can follow the rhythm of the song, and hit some high notes.)


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8912	Posted - 2014.08.07 17:34:00 - [31] - Quote Locked for ranting. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)



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