DUST Search - Non-Combat Roles

Maken Tosch wrote:

In a way it does involve boots on the ground. Right now in Dust, there is protostomping all over the place because there are plenty of players who profit from corp resources to fund their proto gear in addition to prices being fixed by the NPC primary market. Since Legion is obviously going to center around the market and it's obvious that militia gear might become the only NPC-seeded items in the market, it will become extremely expensive to continue funding a proto fit if it the whole fit cost the user nearly 5 million per death. Even with a wallet stuffed with over 500 million ISK, you'll run out of ISK fast especially if you happen to be a dedicated vehicle user.

As a result, players will start behaving conservatively and start using cheaper fits more often while using the salvage to subsidize their fits rather than immediately buying the salvage from another player. This means less protostomping in the battlefield and more balanced gameplay because constant protostomping will be too damn costly especially in an open-world environment where anything can happen.

Us marketeers will make an impact on the battlefield before the battle has even started as we then build up influence on the market. But as a marketeer I also have to watch out for others who will try to undercut me and steal my customers. To some of the folks here on the forums who don't realize it by now, this is known as market pvp. It happens all the time in Eve Online.

Of course the market doesn't affect the battle in a major way like how the battle of B-R5RB went in Eve, but it does influence it in subtle ways before the battle starts.

Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!

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Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4882	Posted - 2014.08.05 22:55:00 - [1] - Quote If there's one thing about dust that pissed me off is that there was not enough to do outside of combat. Dust is all pew pew pew, with one suit doing the oomph oomph oomph Look at your own game, EVE. You can mine, trade, manufacture, salvage, explore, etc. etc. No one in EVE has to play the pew pew pew. EVE has a broad ecosystem which seems much more interesting than dust, because dust is just pew pew pew. Legion must not follow the same template as dust. Dust is very one dimensional: pew pew pew. Legion needs to be much more 50/50 combat/non combat. Hell if anything that would be a great way for new player support, where new players can be assets as non-combat more often than combat, and work their way up to more combat if they want, or further the non combat aspect. But we are looking at a first person video game. Usually, first person games always have weapons as centric. It's what "seems" to fit. 3rd person always seems to be associated with more sandbox. But then enter minecraft which I have never played.....but that is first person and you can build stuff, as far as I know. It's most definitely possible to have a first person game where combat may not be the primary focus. Specifics In dust, non combat roles are herded into Map Control & Support. These are broad catagories; map control meaning transportation, uplinks, & hacking. Support being medical (revive & reps), ammo, and scanning. The combat roles could really be defined as Anti infantry, anti vehicle, and area denial. While you may say that there are more options for the non combat roles, not many of them are interactive enough to be a full-time occupation. For instance, Uplinks & nanohives are just drop and forget, there's no active participation on that end. Scanning is like a mix. You can actively participate in just scanning, but then you are super limited in how you do it. You'd just be a scout running around with an active scanner (or maybe a fast vehicle with scanner) and merely just try and keep the enemy lit up by pointing & clicking and walking around. That is active participation but it's too simple & mundane to be very fun or intriguing. Revive and reps are the most active non combat role. It requires decision making (what to focus on, when's best to revive, etc.) and being mindful of squad presence. Now in legion you need to expand non-combat roles and make them much more active in participation to follow suit with revives and reps. For instance with map control, a simple introduction of locking/unlocking doors into buildings could come into play, expanding it and making it more active. For instance with doors, a mindful map control expert could carefully watch from a perch as an enemy squad walks through a doorway. They then close and lock the door in the middle of the squad, trapping half inside. Scanning could become more intriguing with introduction of photography recon. A squad could toggle between their minimap radar and the streaming of the squad photographer (think COD Black Ops but better). A sect of non combat I have been dying to see in a first person game is the engineering aspect. Building forts, bridges, building roadblocks and maybe even cutting off power to buildings/areas. There's also the destructive aspect of engineering, which would be methodically destroying said forts, bridges, and blockades, to be faster than just shooting them. I remember a long time ago I requested that a tractor bucket should be able to be fit in place of a large turret on an HAV and a tow in place of small turrets. Imagine using a grimsnes to airlift a madrugar, towing crates across a bridge with a Saga, or reshaping the very ground with a Gunnloggi. You get the message: less pew pew, more construction noises and other odd sounds that are made by scanning, maybe woo woo woo woo wuuuuuuuuuuh. Or the buzzzzzzzzzzzzz of a saw. Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8977	Posted - 2014.08.06 00:31:00 - [2] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Legion must not follow the same template as dust. Dust is very one dimensional: pew pew pew. Legion needs to be much more 50/50 combat/non combat. Hell if anything that would be a great way for new player support, where new players can be assets as non-combat more often than combat, and work their way up to more combat if they want, or further the non combat aspect. From what I see on how CCP is intending Legion to start off with, there will be at least one other thing to do besides what you described. Market Trading. You will no doubt see players like me diving into the secondary market making a massive profit without ever needing to leave the comfort of my merc quarters. And I have done plenty of marketeering in Eve Online and still do to this day in addition to manufacturing and mining. So don't be surprised if you see countless buy orders setup by players on day one of Legion because a lot of Eve Online players will flock to Legion with their skills in dealing with the market forces. Sure, there will be players who will setup sell order instead to maximize their profits, but there will always be players who are in a rush and can't wait for the ISK to roll in. In that case, those players will fire sell which is good for marketeers. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4883	Posted - 2014.08.06 00:46:00 - [3] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: From what I see on how CCP is intending Legion to start off with, there will be at least one other thing to do besides what you described. Market Trading. You will no doubt see players like me diving into the secondary market making a massive profit without ever needing to leave the comfort of my merc quarters. And I have done plenty of marketeering in Eve Online and still do to this day in addition to manufacturing and mining. So don't be surprised if you see countless buy orders setup by players on day one of Legion because a lot of Eve Online players will flock to Legion with their skills in dealing with the market forces. Sure, there will be players who will setup sell order instead to maximize their profits, but there will always be players who are in a rush and can't wait for the ISK to roll in. In that case, those players will fire sell which is good for marketeers. While I am glad Legion will most likely deploy with a functioning market, that is not a boots-on-the-ground ability. I'm talking about on battle non combat roles. Roles that help sway outcome without necessarily shooting stuff. Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8977	Posted - 2014.08.06 01:43:00 - [4] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: From what I see on how CCP is intending Legion to start off with, there will be at least one other thing to do besides what you described. Market Trading. You will no doubt see players like me diving into the secondary market making a massive profit without ever needing to leave the comfort of my merc quarters. And I have done plenty of marketeering in Eve Online and still do to this day in addition to manufacturing and mining. So don't be surprised if you see countless buy orders setup by players on day one of Legion because a lot of Eve Online players will flock to Legion with their skills in dealing with the market forces. Sure, there will be players who will setup sell order instead to maximize their profits, but there will always be players who are in a rush and can't wait for the ISK to roll in. In that case, those players will fire sell which is good for marketeers. While I am glad Legion will most likely deploy with a functioning market, that is not a boots-on-the-ground ability. I'm talking about on battle non combat roles. Roles that help sway outcome without necessarily shooting stuff. In a way it does involve boots on the ground. Right now in Dust, there is protostomping all over the place because there are plenty of players who profit from corp resources to fund their proto gear in addition to prices being fixed by the NPC primary market. Since Legion is obviously going to center around the market and it's obvious that militia gear might become the only NPC-seeded items in the market, it will become extremely expensive to continue funding a proto fit if it the whole fit cost the user nearly 5 million per death. Even with a wallet stuffed with over 500 million ISK, you'll run out of ISK fast especially if you happen to be a dedicated vehicle user. As a result, players will start behaving conservatively and start using cheaper fits more often while using the salvage to subsidize their fits rather than immediately buying the salvage from another player. This means less protostomping in the battlefield and more balanced gameplay because constant protostomping will be too damn costly especially in an open-world environment where anything can happen. Us marketeers will make an impact on the battlefield before the battle has even started as we then build up influence on the market. But as a marketeer I also have to watch out for others who will try to undercut me and steal my customers. To some of the folks here on the forums who don't realize it by now, this is known as market pvp. It happens all the time in Eve Online. Of course the market doesn't affect the battle in a major way like how the battle of B-R5RB went in Eve, but it does influence it in subtle ways before the battle starts. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4889	Posted - 2014.08.06 03:11:00 - [5] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: In a way it does involve boots on the ground. Right now in Dust, there is protostomping all over the place because there are plenty of players who profit from corp resources to fund their proto gear in addition to prices being fixed by the NPC primary market. Since Legion is obviously going to center around the market and it's obvious that militia gear might become the only NPC-seeded items in the market, it will become extremely expensive to continue funding a proto fit if it the whole fit cost the user nearly 5 million per death. Even with a wallet stuffed with over 500 million ISK, you'll run out of ISK fast especially if you happen to be a dedicated vehicle user. As a result, players will start behaving conservatively and start using cheaper fits more often while using the salvage to subsidize their fits rather than immediately buying the salvage from another player. This means less protostomping in the battlefield and more balanced gameplay because constant protostomping will be too damn costly especially in an open-world environment where anything can happen. Us marketeers will make an impact on the battlefield before the battle has even started as we then build up influence on the market. But as a marketeer I also have to watch out for others who will try to undercut me and steal my customers. To some of the folks here on the forums who don't realize it by now, this is known as market pvp. It happens all the time in Eve Online. Of course the market doesn't affect the battle in a major way like how the battle of B-R5RB went in Eve, but it does influence it in subtle ways before the battle starts. You are emphasizing the "new player friendly" point I made when the broad point was about having a diverse ecosystem; one that is not all-focal on combat but indirectly winning/influencing battles through other means. Something that adds dimension to the game. Again, market - cool , but building and controlling the map would be what I am talking about. Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3007	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:08:00 - [6] - Quote Personally, I've always seen Legion as a different set of roles than EVE offers, but maybe a narrower set of professions. I'd definitely like to see more. One of the notions I always had about dropships and eventual fighters, was the hope that for those players, DUST felt more like a flight sim. That they wouldn't feel like they were playing an FPS, since they weren't shooting things. If the market is done well, being a businessperson should be a viable career. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1783	Posted - 2014.08.07 16:15:00 - [7] - Quote Well... Field Commander: We could make field command a non-combat role. Kinda been wanting that for a while. A player that's in the war-barge/MCC that controls the points and objectives and whatever other assets we have hacked. Of course this would be a role specific for Corp battles and possibly FWs. Example: Your team needs an ammo drop while they're fighting in a continuous scuffle. Getting a call for ammo, you activate the RDV and guide it down and eventually drop the ammo, although dropping the ammo itself would take a few seconds. Or you need to organize your team because the opponents' tactics threw your strategy out the window. On the fly, you order your players to retreat to specific points to avoid any more loss of assets. - Reconnaissance/Sabotage Giving players the ability to be a recon or saboteur would be easiest done by focusing on scout-based equipment. We already have these roles just watered down and not an actual focus. Do we not have cloaks and scanners? Do we not have REs? Give scouts more equipment that will let them focus on their non-combat duties! Equipment like: Malicious Hack(aka temporarily damaging their tacnet or related devices), ghost grenades(creates a tacnet object without said object being there, such as a red dot), tracking devices, passive scan disruptors, trip wire(or anti-personnel REs), and beacons. - Vehicles Also adding on to the non-combat roles for vehicles as well as make them not so "soft." A scout dropship should be able to do much more than just simply scanning. Cloaking itself, dropping scanner drones, disrupting orbital bombardment targeting to either delay their targeting or throw it off course. - Drone Handler? Maybe another non-combat role that focuses on handling drones much like vehicles? - Strategist/Strategic Officer Separate from Field Commander because it's less about commanding and more about buffing and debuffing. Just like the FC role you're not on the battlefield but your presence is known through your actions. While the Field Commander can have control over these abilities, the SO is the role specifically centered around these abilities. Why the need for a SO? Well a SO would be a role designated for the leader of a specific battle when there are multiple battles going on under one FC's command or when it's a non-corp battle(Public Battle or FW). As a Strategist/Strategic Officer, you can activate several abilities that will greatly affect the battlefield as well as issue out commands and objectives to your team. (SN: These are based on, if not pretty much stolen from, a lot of R.U.S.E.'s Ruses. http://ruse.wikia.com/wiki/Ruses ) These abilities can be gained in battle by collecting enough warpoints from the whole team(this way you have to manage the use of war points so that you don't leave yourself wide open.) Decryption - Revealing information in a targeted area through the use of various means. Such information would be like vehicles, enemies, equipment, etc. Tacnet Silence - Gives your communication network a temporary defense or stops a Tactnet Reveal dead in it's tracks. Tacnet Reveal - Through hacking, it allows the SO/FC to listen to the enemies' team communication channel for a short period of time as well as see some of their objectives. (There's a chance that the enemy SO/FC will get an alert of your presence). Decoy - Through hacking the Tactnet, the SO/FC can create a large amount of decoys in an area. Can be defeated by Tactnet Reveal. Vehicle Decoy - Same as above "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4011	Posted - 2014.08.07 16:35:00 - [8] - Quote If the income from owning districts in PC is generated via tax on salvaged items, then salvaging items in a PC district would be a greate role for new players, and a good reason for PC Corps to take in new players. You need the players to do the salvaging to generate the tax to make the ISK. The more districts your Corp owns, the more players you need to generate a profit from those districts. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
lateris ablon Commando Perkone Caldari State 18	Posted - 2014.08.07 16:51:00 - [9] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: If the income from owning districts in PC is generated via tax on salvaged items, then salvaging items in a PC district would be a greate role for new players, and a good reason for PC Corps to take in new players. You need the players to do the salvaging to generate the tax to make the ISK. The more districts your Corp owns, the more players you need to generate a profit from those districts. Would this push players to form larger corps? ATC
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8982	Posted - 2014.08.07 20:08:00 - [10] - Quote lateris ablon wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: If the income from owning districts in PC is generated via tax on salvaged items, then salvaging items in a PC district would be a greate role for new players, and a good reason for PC Corps to take in new players. You need the players to do the salvaging to generate the tax to make the ISK. The more districts your Corp owns, the more players you need to generate a profit from those districts. Would this push players to form larger corps? Very likely, but you have to remember that the bigger your corp, the more likely you are to get spies among your ranks. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.



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