An extra low or high slot couldn't really do that much harm from the perspective of a Swarm Launcher.

Armor Repairers got nerfed, so there wouldn't really be a problem with Quadruple Repairers, and my +45% Armor Damage means that while it would be effective, completely brick tanking it wouldn't be too much of a problem.

Though It would also need to be less reliable in CQC for it to be balanced. I'd say slower Turret Rotation speed would be an order.

Dude... I got 12/2/0 401k ISK 7k SP and 2620 WP in a match yesterday driving my Sica... killed 5 tanks with it, we don't need better tanks, you need better skills, and fittings.

Dude... I got 12/2/0 401k ISK 7k SP and 2620 WP in a match yesterday driving my Sica... killed 5 tanks with it, we don't need better tanks, you need better skills, and fittings.

I find it funny that you directed that comment at True, who in my personal opinion could whip you up and down Molden Heath with a militia tank 1vs1.

Personally, I'd like to see the Enforcer and Marauder both make comeback...but with a siege mode module similar to the Starship Marauder's Bastion Mode (for the Enforcer HAV) and the Dreadnought's Siege Mode (For the Marauder HAV).

The Bastion Mode Space Side, when active, increases the Optimal Range of the starship by 30% as well as providing 30% damage resistance and doubling the efficacy of local repair systems, while making the starship immobile (neither sublight, nor warp drive will activate). Not all of these features are necessary, I would be in favor of a module that immobilizes the maurader, while increasing weapon optimal range and zoom fidelity. If one of the HAV's has a missile Optimal Range increase, it should be done through weapon Velocity, not flight time.

The Seige Mode Space Side, when active, increases the Damage Multiplier of turrets by 700% (no joke, look it up on the wiki) and doubles the efficacy of local repair system, while making the starship immobile, and reducing Scan Resolution (which makes them take longer to lock onto targets). The HAV version of this might have a different bonus for each weapon to increase firepower, while making it take longer to turn the turret around, while the HAV itself is immobilized.

Neither of these can be deactivated mid-cycle, so once a starship activates them, they are committed until the timer runs out.

You do know making yourself immobile would be suicide in dust, right?

With the more recent changes to the HAV Skill Tree's I have often found myself wistfully looking back at what we had in the past, and what that led me to realise is that much of the HAV's potential and sense of progression is now lost.

What I mean by this is that the HAV tree lacks real incentive to put your SP into the role, with the attempted tiericide and rework of vehicles to achieve waves or opportunity all we have done is seen HAV go through the motions of being ultra powerful against AV and a new meta where every HAV was the same and low SP HAV could dominate the field with relative ease.

I suggest this being a heavily skilled tanker..... who this morning realised that I have less than 1 Million SP in vehicle Command....and only Level 1 in HAV command being a pointless skill.

I propose now with HAV and AV in a more balance place, and little for CCP to lose at this late point in the game, that the removed Enforcer HAV be restablished as the "next tier up" of HAV equivalent to Assault Dropships. I also propose that HAV Command skills be broken back down into their racial options, meaning HAV pilots require the requisite skills to be able to field specific HAV.

In order to do this new skills...or old ones.... would have to be implemented.

HAV Command

Vehicle Command- Allows Access to Militia/ Standard HAV (perhaps redesignated Sica and Soma)

Caldari/ Gallente Heavy Attack Vehicle Command- Allows Access to the ADV Tier Racial HAV (The Gunlogi and Madrugar)

Caldari/ Gallente Enforcer Command- Allows Access to the Prototype Tier Racial HAV and provides the following bonuses per level

Caldari Enforcer HAV LVL 5: +2-3% to missile damage and range per level; +2% maximum zoom per level
Gallente Enforcer HAV LVL 5: +2-3% to blaster damage and range per level; +2% maximum zoom per level

The Enforcer Hull

Prior to the decreases in HAV Hull price the Enforcer HAV used to sell for about 1,277,000 ISK before Modules and Turrets, usually ending up around about 2.5 or more Million ISK being the most expensive vehicle in the game.

I would suggest that with the reintroduction of Enforcer HAV the Hull cost of each Enforcer HAV should sit around 636,000 - 757,000 ISK (with other HAV hulls increasing in price to match roughly across the tiers) before modules and turrets. In addition to this both the Enforcer hull should receive slight boosts to their predessors stats in terms of CPU and or PG fitting capacity alongside and additional slot to their racial tanking type (high for the Caldari and a Low for the Gallente.)

Gunnlogi
Shields-2650
Armour-1500
PG- 2120
CPU- 845
High Slots-3
Low Slots- 2

Falchion
Shields-2650
Armour-1500
PG- 2438 (15% increase)
CPU- 972 (15% Increase)
High Slots-4
Low Slots- 2

Madrugar
Shields-2650
Armour-1500
PG- 2490
CPU- 475
High Slots-2
Low Slots- 3

Vayu
Shields-1200
Armour-4000
PG- 2676 (7.5% increase)
CPU- 570 (20% increase)
High Slots-2
Low Slots- 4

I certainly feel like the re-integration of Enforcer HAV into the game would bring a bit more interest back into HAV piloting as a high risk and highly customisable role that allows players to being their role using the basic Sica or Soma variant, move on to the main Gunlogi and Madrugar tier, and take that beyond if they settle in the role to become top tier and dedicated Tankers.

Please consider this.

I also ask my fellow forumers, especially AVer's like Atiim and King Checkmate to comment. I value that sort of imput a great deal.

You do know making yourself immobile would be suicide in dust, right?

As the original suggestion stands in OP:

That would be a very VERY bad thing to recreate infinitely better tiers of tanks.
A return to the dark ages.


What are the reasons for such a strong reaction?
Please note that in OP above the 'Enforcers' better, better and not a single attribute is weaker.
PLUS having an extremely hard skill bonus (damage!!!!!) make lower tier tanks obsolete.


By creating higher tiers, you are creating a pariah of lower tiers, which are a joke everytime someone is seen using one.
"Dude, do you even Vayu?"

And no, isk or SP price ticket is not gameplay balance factor.




Am I hostile to idea of new tanks?
Definately not, they are most welcome if they are new variations.
Variations with some attributes better - and some weaker.

No.

could divide the higher tank tiers into enforcers and marauders.

Enfrocer class HAV's; maximise dps/range. while having normal hp at the expense of speed and maunverbilty. slightly increased fitting to allow for decent tank and proto turret. 3% bonus to racial turret damge/range/zoom. (vayu/falchion) hull price 500-550k

Maruder HAV's: maximises defence with slight boost of 2% to damge for racial turret. as well as 3% reduction in cooldown time and 1 or 2% resistence increase for races preferred tanking method for hardners. has more hp than std havs as well as fittng. to compensate for the heavier defences is even slower than both enforcers and std havs. has increased fitting costs to allow for full proto lrg and sml turrets as well as complex fitting. (Vayu/Sagaris) hull price 600k


how ever the base pwrgird/cpu should not accomadte proto/compelx fittings off the bat. rather they are increased slighty base wise and puts emphisie into speccing into vehicles.

HOW THE PROGESSION SHOULD GO.

Vechile command 5> hav operation 3> racial hav 5> racial marduer/enforcer havs
unlocks vehicle skill allows use of std havs increases speed 1%(caldari) and turn rate 2%(gallente) as stated above

to clarify why racial hav skill should increase speed for gunnlogi is quite simply because it is absoltey slow. and the madruger just has ahorrible abillty to turn. racial skill aslo affects that races higher tiered tanks. dose not affect millita tanks.

Still that horrid damage bonus on that suggestion.
All should remember that damage bonus most likely will dictate tank vs tank gameplay.
Permanent bonus is, well... Permanent. 24/7.

Rather than that, give the variants an extra slot and make the tankers at least fit a damage mod if they want extra punch. It has to be managed and chosen when to use it, you know.

I'm wholly willing to rethink Enforcer HAV

Vayu
High Slots 2
Low Slots 4
PG and CPU Increases
20% Reduction to Mobility
10% Blaster/ Missile Damage, 15% Increased Zoom/ Accuracy/ Dispersion Decrease
Shields 1200
Armour 3200

Falchion
High Slots 4
Low Slots 2
PG and CPU Increases
20% Reduction to Mobility
10% Blaster/ Missile Damage, 15% Increased Zoom/ Accuracy/ Dispersion Decrease
Shields 2350
Armour 1100

You get a lighter tanks, that is less mobile, with a significantly greater SP and ISK threshold, but with the benefits of having significantly better damage output and targeting capacity, as well as greater customisation, and efficiency in the hands of skilled pilots.

Madrugar and Gunlogi are std HAV's

And while enforcers were here they were ADV

If we bring enforcers back then we need marauder tanks back (With different stats of course)

Not really.....

I am for removing MLT HAV...... or at least perhaps having Militia Sica and regular Sica to differentiate the tiers.

Sica and Soma become Standard and are covered by the HAV Command Skills

Gunlogi and Madrugar are Advanced HAV and are covered by Racial HAV Command Skills

Vayu and Falchion become Prototype HAV and are covered by Racial Enforcer Command Skills.