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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 965	Posted - 2014.07.31 02:43:00 - [1] - Quote Even at 550Isk per LP and tier 10 standings, a win gets you, what, 659LP? That's 362k Isk; higher than a pub match unless you're in the top two or three, but not really worth the down sides of friendly fire and getting essentially no rewards if you lose. Oh, and that's only spending the LP on the absolute best value items. If you dip into the middle tier of LP items, suddenly you're looking at 230k isk-equivalent for a win, and heaven forbid you drop to the low tier and end up with 66k worth of items. Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 966	Posted - 2014.07.31 04:16:00 - [2] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Okay sure our LP is Worth X ISK but in any situation where we cannot sell to take advantage of that ISK all it amounts to half a suit fitting that costs almost 300K ISK and isnt any better than an ISK proto suit. Faction specialist weapons are proto status but advanced fittings. That's strictly better (and costs more LP than normal proto) Faction equipment is strictly better than proto. I am okay with a bunch of faction prototype modules also getting a buff, but the first thing that should be done is normalise LP costs. Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 968	Posted - 2014.07.31 10:35:00 - [3] - Quote But you do care about getting an extra 43cpu and 7pg from using a faction gun, right? Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 968	Posted - 2014.07.31 12:46:00 - [4] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Oh wow I can't believe they didn't make it like this in the first place. The question is, what is the percentage of isk that a faction item should cost? 10%? 20%? Depends on the design goals. Originally, it was meant to be an isk sink, so large negative isk sums were a good thing. However, without player trading, isk sinks aren't really useful because there's no real economy to require sinking isk from, so having isk amounts being only a small component of the cost is probably a good thing; less isk cost, but more LP cost to get the neat gear. Quote: In other words, a win should net you about 150k isk worth of lp at level 0 or level 1 standings, but then should give you 300-500k isk worth of lp at level 10 standings I'd prefer to bump it up even higher; most decent squads will rake in 250k per squad member for a skirmish pub match; if you factor in the friendly fire, and the paltry rewards if you lose, then players won't come to the party unless they're getting double that or more. Quote: Should unique items (such as the specialist rifles and faction equipment) have a lower isk to lp ratio to make them more "expensive"? Heck yes they should. Note, however, that most LP ratios are so terrible that they'll probably still be more affordable when fixed than they are now. Quote: Should high sp costing items (such as dropsuits and vehicles) have a lower isk to lp ratio because of the extra sp they save? The sp you save from advanced to proto weapons is about 400k, while the sp yoo save from adv to proto dropsuits is something like 1.5 million. What about modules and equipment which both save around 700k sp? In an ideal world, the AUR cost of neo suits should reflect those decisions already, so all that's needed is an AUR->LP conversion rate and you're done... Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 976	Posted - 2014.08.01 00:33:00 - [5] - Quote Remember that not every faction item in Eve is actually more powerful; a lot of faction items are the same as Tech 2 but lowered fitting costs. (e.g. faction specialist weapons in Dust) Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 980	Posted - 2014.08.07 01:07:00 - [6] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Still hoping this gets consideration for a future hotfix. OK, so what's the next step? From my POV, what should be done next is to make a spreadsheet with the changes you want. 1. Classify everything into categories Normal stuff: * suits * weapons * modules * equipment * turrets Stuff more powerful than normal proto: * Specialist PRO weapons * unique faction equipment (i.e. state nanite injectors) Semi-unique stuff that might need tweaking: * vehicles 2. Each category should have a separate formula to work out LP/isk cost (even if it's initially the same formula) So, ignore what they are now, work out something consistent about what they should cost. i.e. a rule like 'if the equivalent ISK item costs X, then the loyalty store cost will be 80% LP (rounded down) at the standard LP:ISK exchange rate for this item, with the rest of the price remaining as isk' so for a 1500Isk scrambler rifle, if you have decided that the exchange rate is 1LP=400Isk, then it would cost 3LP plus 300ISK. Then apply that formula to all items in that category. 3. Work out what to do for unique faction stuff Personally, I think a blanket 20% more than the equivalent proto item would be sufficient, but either way, they will obey a separate formula. So basically, come up with a solution as well as a problem, in spreadsheet form. Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 980	Posted - 2014.08.07 01:37:00 - [7] - Quote True Adamance wrote: 20% is far too much..... it would make FW a farmville for PCers outside of their matches..... yes we want players to enjoy their rewards but not to have a meta that relies upon them to top tier gameplay. LP rewards are tripled in Charlie. FW will be a farmville for PCers, regardless of that 20% premium or not. Anyway, that's a separate issue. The salient point is that Faction Specialist weapons are strictly better than faction proto weapons, so they have to cost more. Similarly for unique faction equipment. We're not talking about hypotheticals here; these items already exist in the LP store. Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 987	Posted - 2014.08.08 05:26:00 - [8] - Quote OK, my proposal https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14LNuASpbko5l0B70gzoBsBIjFGYd3b6Cn3gLziH-0Hg/edit?usp=sharing Everything normalised to 1LP = 400 isk with 80% of the cost being borne by LP Anything specialist + faction-unique equipment gets 20% premium Feel free to argue the numbers or create your own spreadsheet (maybe with different numbers for suits vs vehicles etc) whatever you want. Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 989	Posted - 2014.08.08 15:45:00 - [9] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Do you know how EVE does it? Do they treat LP like isk, or do they group items together, despite their isk variances, and give the items all one single cost? Eve is more fluid, in that the market sets the price, and some LP items are more about the (market) cost of the random drops that are required to build them than the LP that goes into them. So in that sense, an item is worth as much as you can get for it. It's more about finding items to get the best isk:LP rate rather than having a fixed rate. Having said that, 1LP=1000 isk is the gold standard about whether it's worth buying something from the LP store to sell for isk - something that is not possible in Dust. Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 989	Posted - 2014.08.10 23:47:00 - [10] - Quote Posting that this should be a thing. Dust/Eve transfers

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 989	Posted - 2014.08.11 02:24:00 - [11] - Quote Personally, I think putting everything on the same LP:ISK conversion rate is a good start, after which tweaks can be made based on empirical data. Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 992	Posted - 2014.08.12 01:25:00 - [12] - Quote OK, can you detail the various categories of item available on the LP store, and what LP conversion rate they should be, so we can discuss them? Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 994	Posted - 2014.08.15 00:10:00 - [13] - Quote Still waiting. Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1025	Posted - 2014.08.29 08:58:00 - [14] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Can I? Yes. Will I? No. If you're doing it wrong will I say so since decisions from poor data=poor decisions? Maybe. You sound like my ex. "I'm not telling you what I want. Just try things and I'll tell you what you're doing wrong." Dust/Eve transfers

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